1973 Chilean coup d'état: 40th Anniversary

[Souriya Al-Assad]

This basically sums up all the "terrible" things America did in Central and South America, ever.

The US has fucked with Latin America a lot longer.

Thank you for recognising this truth!

[4years]

>Implying they were innocent.

The vast majority if people killed by Pinochet were innocent of anything that could be rationally construed as a crime deserving of death.

Not if they are traitors.

Traitor: noun, a person who betrays a friend, country, principle, etc..

Which would make Pinochet the traitor for betraying his country via staging a coup against the legitimate government.

Your understanding of Fascists view of the Nation is way off.

Do you deny that a state is its people?

How many children did he kill Exactly?

Who knows? A good number certainly.
http://webpages.uah.edu/~carlise/resear ... orture.doc
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... rship.html

[Souriya Al-Assad]

>Implying they were innocent.

The vast majority if people killed by Pinochet were innocent of anything that could be rationally construed as a crime deserving of death.

Not if they are traitors.

Traitor: noun, a person who betrays a friend, country, principle, etc..

Which would ,are Pinochet the traitor for betraying his country via staging a coup against the legitimate government.

Your understanding of Fascists view of the Nation is way off.

Do you deny that a state is its people?

How many children did he kill Exactly?

Who knows? A good number certainly.
http://webpages.uah.edu/~carlise/resear ... orture.doc
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... rship.html

Some say between 30 000 to several hundred thousands of Chileans were massacred by the Pinochet regime.

Disappeared are estimated to be between 30 000 - 70 000

Number of tortured, brutally detained Communists & Socialists & even non-leftists false accused are in much higher numbers to some historians.

However to me, the worst right-wing regime our Western governments ever armed, was the Mott regime in Guatemala. As well as the contras in Central America in general. One must realise, those were truly vile.

[Wisconsin9]

The vast majority if people killed by Pinochet were innocent of anything that could be rationally construed as a crime deserving of death.




Traitor: noun, a person who betrays a friend, country, principle, etc..

Which would ,are Pinochet the traitor for betraying his country via staging a coup against the legitimate government.



Do you deny that a state is its people?



Who knows? A good number certainly.
http://webpages.uah.edu/~carlise/resear ... orture.doc
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... rship.html

Some say between 30 000 to several hundred thousands of Chileans were massacred by the Pinochet regime.

Disappeared are estimated to be between 30 000 - 70 000

Number of tortured, brutally detained Communists & Socialists & even non-leftists false accused are in much higher numbers to some historians.

However to me, the worst right-wing regime our Western governments ever armed, was the Mott regime in Guatemala. As well as the contras in Central America in general. One must realise, those were truly vile.

Arming a dictatorship is bad period.

[4years]

The vast majority if people killed by Pinochet were innocent of anything that could be rationally construed as a crime deserving of death.




Traitor: noun, a person who betrays a friend, country, principle, etc..

Which would ,are Pinochet the traitor for betraying his country via staging a coup against the legitimate government.



Do you deny that a state is its people?



Who knows? A good number certainly.
http://webpages.uah.edu/~carlise/resear ... orture.doc
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... rship.html

1. Some say between 30 000 to several hundred thousands of Chileans were massacred by the Pinochet regime.

Disappeared are estimated to be between 30 000 - 70 000

Number of tortured, brutally detained Communists & Socialists & even non-leftists false accused are in much higher numbers to some historians.

2. However to me, the worst right-wing regime our Western governments ever armed, was the Mott regime in Guatemala. As well as the contras in Central America in general. One must realise, those were truly vile.

1. I am aware of the overall numbers, by put the question asked was how many children specifically.
2. True they were vile, but I have a specific distaste for Pol Pot. He seemed to have been insane in a very particular kind of way and extremely reactionary.

[Souriya Al-Assad]

1. Some say between 30 000 to several hundred thousands of Chileans were massacred by the Pinochet regime.

Disappeared are estimated to be between 30 000 - 70 000

Number of tortured, brutally detained Communists & Socialists & even non-leftists false accused are in much higher numbers to some historians.

2. However to me, the worst right-wing regime our Western governments ever armed, was the Mott regime in Guatemala. As well as the contras in Central America in general. One must realise, those were truly vile.

1. I am aware of the overall numbers, by put the question asked was how many children specifically.
2. True they were vile, but I have a specific distaste for Pol Pot. He seemed to have been insane in a very particular kind of way and extremely reactionary.

Pol Pot makes me want to look at Thatcher than say tramp the dirt down, as that British MP said in particular.

Agreed, he was a reactionary tyrant. An agrarian fascist, not one single bit 'Communist' at all. Thank goodness Ho Chi Minh obliterated the Khmer Rouge.

[Costa Alegria]

Thank goodness Ho Chi Minh obliterated the Khmer Rouge.

Ho Chi Minh was dead at least a a decade before the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia (and thus provoking the subsequent war with China, who hadn't entered it's "bully everyone" phase yet). For a "socialist", you're not very well versed in the life and times of other "socialist" leaders.

[Souriya Al-Assad]

Thank goodness Ho Chi Minh obliterated the Khmer Rouge.

Ho Chi Minh was dead at least a a decade before the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia (and thus provoking the subsequent war with China, who hadn't entered it's "bully everyone" phase yet). For a "socialist", you're not very well versed in the life and times of other "socialist" leaders.

By Ho Chi Minh I meant the Vietnamese government. It was just a faster way for me to say it.

[Austro-German Prussia]

Thank goodness Ho Chi Minh obliterated the Khmer Rouge.

Ho Chi Minh was dead at least a a decade before the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia (and thus provoking the subsequent war with China, who hadn't entered it's "bully everyone" phase yet). For a "socialist", you're not very well versed in the life and times of other "socialist" leaders.

Certainly a good point.

The bottomline is, Chile would not be nearly as developed as it is today without him.

[Souriya Al-Assad]

Ho Chi Minh was dead at least a a decade before the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia (and thus provoking the subsequent war with China, who hadn't entered it's "bully everyone" phase yet). For a "socialist", you're not very well versed in the life and times of other "socialist" leaders.

Certainly a good point.

The bottomline is, Chile would not be nearly as developed as it is today without him.

Right, so according to you Chile was better under Pinochet?

[Costa Alegria]

Right, so according to you Chile was better under Pinochet?

Yes and no. No because he was a brutal dictator that tortured people and yes because the economic reforms made by Pinochet transformed Chile into a modern state with the highest quality of life in Latin America.

[Austro-German Prussia]

Certainly a good point.

The bottomline is, Chile would not be nearly as developed as it is today without him.

Right, so according to you Chile was better under Pinochet?

What I'm saying is his reforms paved the way for modern, advanced Chile to exist.

[Souriya Al-Assad]

Right, so according to you Chile was better under Pinochet?

Yes and no. No because he was a brutal dictator that tortured people and yes because the economic reforms made by Pinochet transformed Chile into a modern state with the highest quality of life in Latin America.

Highest quality of life? What a joke. Students are protesting of the over the top difficulties of getting an affordable higher education there. The Chilean government has also gone full Erdogan/Khalifa lately to silence them.

Right, so according to you Chile was better under Pinochet?

What I'm saying is his reforms paved the way for modern, advanced Chile to exist.

Not really. Comrade Salvador Allende would have made a far better Chile to me.

[4years]

Right, so according to you Chile was better under Pinochet?

Yes and no. No because he was a brutal dictator that tortured people and yes because the economic reforms made by Pinochet transformed Chile into a modern state with the highest quality of life in Latin America.

No they didn't. The reconstruction of the mess Pinochet's free market binge made, which involved an extensive program of economic centralization (in amounts that would have made Allende blush), did that.

[Souriya Al-Assad]

Yes and no. No because he was a brutal dictator that tortured people and yes because the economic reforms made by Pinochet transformed Chile into a modern state with the highest quality of life in Latin America.

No they didn't. The reconstruction of the mess Pinochet's free market binge made, which involved an extensive program of economic centralization (in amounts that would have made Allende blush), did that.

Thank you.

Yes, the post-Pinochet governments in their centralisation projects of the binge Pinochet created, saved the masses from near cesspool.

[4years]

Right, so according to you Chile was better under Pinochet?

What I'm saying is his reforms paved the way for modern, advanced Chile to exist.

Not really. Comrade Salvador Allende would have made a far better Chile to me.

Exactly.
Let's quote Naomi Klein’s The Shock Doctrine pgs. 105-106

"…In 1982, despite its strict adherence to the Chicago doctrine, Chile’s economy crashed: its debt exploded, it faced hyperinflation once again and unemployment hit 30 percent — ten times higher than it was under Allende. The main cause was that the pirahnas, the Enron-style financial houses that the Chicago Boys [the Friedman-trained Chilean economists who imposed Pinochet's economic policy] had freed from all regulation, had bought up the country’s assets on borrowed money and run up an enormous debt of $14 billion."
…
"The situation was so unstable that Pinochet was forced to do exactly what Allende had done: he nationalized many of these companies.
…
"It’s clear that Chile was never the laboratory of ‘pure’ free markets that its cheerleaders had claimed. Instead, it was a country where a small elite leapt from wealthy to super-rich in extremely short order — a highly profitable formula bankrolled by debt and heavily subsidized (then bailed out) with public funds. When the hype and salesmanship behind the miracle are stripped away, Chile under Pinochet and the Chicago Boys was not a capitalist state featuring a liberated market but a corporatist one…a mutually supporting alliance between a police state and large corporations, joining forces to wage an all-out war on the third power sector — the workers — thereby drastically increasing the alliance’s share of the national wealth.
"That war — what many Chileans understandably see as a war of the rich against the poor and middle class — is the real story of Chile’s economic ‘miracle.’ By 1988, when the economy had stabilized and was growing rapidly, 45 percent of the population had fallen below the poverty line. The richest 10 percent of Chileans, however, had seen their incomes increase by 83 percent…if that track record qualifies Chile as a miracle for Chicago school economists, perhaps shock treatment [Friedman's term for his theory] was never really about jolting the the economy into health. Perhaps it was meant to do exactly what it did — hoover wealth up to the top and shock much of the middle class out of existence."

The development of Chile under Pinochet, insofar as that actually occurred, was a result of the bastardization of polices that would have been implemented more equitably, more quickly, more rationally, and more consistently under Allende. Further the post Pinochet government proved to be good at cleaning up his mess via centralization and social democracy.

[Yankee Arditi]

1. I am aware of the overall numbers, by put the question asked was how many children specifically.
2. True they were vile, but I have a specific distaste for Pol Pot. He seemed to have been insane in a very particular kind of way and extremely reactionary.

Pol Pot makes me want to look at Thatcher than say tramp the dirt down, as that British MP said in particular.

Agreed, he was a reactionary tyrant. An agrarian fascist, not one single bit 'Communist' at all. Thank goodness Ho Chi Minh obliterated the Khmer Rouge.

I love how whenever there is a leftist you guys don't like you automatically label them fascists even though there is nothing Fascist about them.

[The Grey Wolf]

Pol Pot makes me want to look at Thatcher than say tramp the dirt down, as that British MP said in particular.

Agreed, he was a reactionary tyrant. An agrarian fascist, not one single bit 'Communist' at all. Thank goodness Ho Chi Minh obliterated the Khmer Rouge.

I love how whenever there is a leftist you guys don't like you automatically label them fascists even though there is nothing Fascist about them.

But when right wingers do it, suddenly it's a logical fallacy.

[Souriya Al-Assad]

Right, so according to you Chile was better under Pinochet?

What I'm saying is his reforms paved the way for modern, advanced Chile to exist.

Not really. Comrade Salvador Allende would have made a far better Chile to me.[/quote]

Exactly.
Let's quote Naomi Klein’s The Shock Doctrine pgs. 105-106

"…In 1982, despite its strict adherence to the Chicago doctrine, Chile’s economy crashed: its debt exploded, it faced hyperinflation once again and unemployment hit 30 percent — ten times higher than it was under Allende. The main cause was that the pirahnas, the Enron-style financial houses that the Chicago Boys [the Friedman-trained Chilean economists who imposed Pinochet's economic policy] had freed from all regulation, had bought up the country’s assets on borrowed money and run up an enormous debt of $14 billion."
…
"The situation was so unstable that Pinochet was forced to do exactly what Allende had done: he nationalized many of these companies.
…
"It’s clear that Chile was never the laboratory of ‘pure’ free markets that its cheerleaders had claimed. Instead, it was a country where a small elite leapt from wealthy to super-rich in extremely short order — a highly profitable formula bankrolled by debt and heavily subsidized (then bailed out) with public funds. When the hype and salesmanship behind the miracle are stripped away, Chile under Pinochet and the Chicago Boys was not a capitalist state featuring a liberated market but a corporatist one…a mutually supporting alliance between a police state and large corporations, joining forces to wage an all-out war on the third power sector — the workers — thereby drastically increasing the alliance’s share of the national wealth.
"That war — what many Chileans understandably see as a war of the rich against the poor and middle class — is the real story of Chile’s economic ‘miracle.’ By 1988, when the economy had stabilized and was growing rapidly, 45 percent of the population had fallen below the poverty line. The richest 10 percent of Chileans, however, had seen their incomes increase by 83 percent…if that track record qualifies Chile as a miracle for Chicago school economists, perhaps shock treatment [Friedman's term for his theory] was never really about jolting the the economy into health. Perhaps it was meant to do exactly what it did — hoover wealth up to the top and shock much of the middle class out of existence."

The development of Chile under Pinochet, insofar as that actually occurred, was a result of the bastardisation of polices that would have been implemented more equitably, more quickly, more rationally, and more consistently under Allende. Further the post Pinochet government proved to be good at cleaning up his mess via centralisation and social democracy.[/quote]

Finally some real sense coming in. Thank you Comrade.

[Blakk Metal]

Ho Chi Minh was dead at least a a decade before the Vietnamese invaded Cambodia (and thus provoking the subsequent war with China, who hadn't entered it's "bully everyone" phase yet). For a "socialist", you're not very well versed in the life and times of other "socialist" leaders.

Certainly a good point.

The bottomline is, Chile would not be nearly as developed as it is today without him.

Money isn't everything, dude.

[Austro-German Prussia]

Certainly a good point.

The bottomline is, Chile would not be nearly as developed as it is today without him.

Money isn't everything, dude.

That's like saying "winning isn't everything" after losing.

[Souriya Al-Assad]

Money isn't everything, dude.

That's like saying "winning isn't everything" after losing.

In your case I would say, Social Darwinism is not everything you must realise.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

Rest in peace, Augusto Pinochet. One of the world's best and noblest leaders.

[Prussia-Steinbach]

In your case I would say, Social Darwinism is not everything you must realise.

That's like saying "winning isn't everything" after losing.

[The Nuclear Fist]

Rest in peace, Augusto Pinochet. One of the world's best and noblest leaders.

So as long as I yell 'Traitor!' really loud you don't mind me pulling out your fingernails? Fun, I'm going to remember that.