Abortion and Capital Punishment

[Zagornias]

Pro Choice and Pro Capital Punishment in some cases.

[Blakk Metal]

http://www.thelizlibrary.org/site-index/site-index-frame.html#soulhttp://www.thelizlibrary.org/liz/004.htm

Linking to some random site with no explanation of what or why and without any input from your part is no more argument than me replying with a link to google search.

Are you fucking German?

And do note that i am pro-abortion if pregnancy carries a serious health risk for the mother or something.

Pregnancy always 'carries a serious health risk for the mother or something' if the mother is a human.

[Sociobiology]

Ok so If I abduct you in the night and stitch you to a person in a vegetative state in such a way that your separation will kill one of you, you should be forced to spend the rest of your life attached to said vegetable.



actually it does nullify their right to occupy it.
this is why I cant just show up at your house, that you are living in, and start living there against your will, you can have me forcibly removed.

either the woman is strapped down to a table for 9 months, greatly violating her rights, or the offending fetus is removed, which is roughly equivalent to shooting a rat.

Are you suggesting a woman who gets pregnant is going to spend the rest of her life pregnant?

Maybe back in the 1800s, but we've had a few land reform acts since then, and are you suggesting that women just magically get pregnant out of the blue?

Are you suggesting all pregnancies are voluntary and made will full informed consent?
abortion is even one of the means to increase the likelihood of pregnancy.

Since when have pregnant women been strapped down on tables for nine months?

you are the one saying her rights to her body are forfeit. there are only two outcomes the fetus's rights are forfeit or the woman's are.

I seriously missed a memo on that one, and since when did rats develop into adult humans??????? Now, that stuffs seriously scary.

Evolutionary biologist, all life has the potential to develop human level or greater intelligence. All that varies is the number of generation or amount of manipulation needed.
a ball of cells without a mind is not of greater value than a creature with thoughts and emotions.

[The ivain isles]

Are you suggesting a woman who gets pregnant is going to spend the rest of her life pregnant?

Maybe back in the 1800s, but we've had a few land reform acts since then, and are you suggesting that women just magically get pregnant out of the blue?

Are you suggesting all pregnancies are voluntary and made will full informed consent?
abortion is even one of the means to increase the likelihood of pregnancy.

Since when have pregnant women been strapped down on tables for nine months?

you are the one saying her rights to her body are forfeit. there are only two outcomes the fetus's rights are forfeit or the woman's are.

I seriously missed a memo on that one, and since when did rats develop into adult humans??????? Now, that stuffs seriously scary.

Evolutionary biologist, all life has the potential to develop human level or greater intelligence. All that varies is the number of generation or amount of manipulation needed.
a ball of cells without a mind is not of greater value than a creature with thoughts and emotions.

No, rape is unconsentual, other than that, a woman consents with the full knowledge that there exists a probability of pregnancy.

Her body is there before the pregnancy, it'll be there afterward, so no, there isn't. Your effectively saying, a foetus has rights, we'll just choose to ignore them because a foetus isn't any benefit to me now. There's a huge scale in the difference of completely eliminating a foetus which has the high probability of seeing some 70+ years of life so a woman can keep nine months of comfort. You still haven't told me when women are strapped down to tables for nine months, btw, and I've seen plenty of pregnant women moving about freely in, well, bodies.

Yes, and different species evolve between then and now. When you find a rat capable of understanding mathematics, tell me.

[Mavorpen]

No, rape is unconsentual, other than that, a woman consents with the full knowledge that there exists a probability of pregnancy.

Yes. Which means they don't consent to pregnancy.

[Esternial]

It's not ironic. One is a person, the other is not.

It is life. It has been proven scientifically that an unborn fetus is a person.

"Person" isn't a scientific term, so there goes that argument.

[The ivain isles]

No, rape is unconsentual, other than that, a woman consents with the full knowledge that there exists a probability of pregnancy.

Yes. Which means they don't consent to pregnancy.

Yes, and they go to the hospital, they say I've just been raped, and they get an injection of oestrogen.

[Shaggai]

Are you suggesting all pregnancies are voluntary and made will full informed consent?
abortion is even one of the means to increase the likelihood of pregnancy.



you are the one saying her rights to her body are forfeit. there are only two outcomes the fetus's rights are forfeit or the woman's are.



Evolutionary biologist, all life has the potential to develop human level or greater intelligence. All that varies is the number of generation or amount of manipulation needed.
a ball of cells without a mind is not of greater value than a creature with thoughts and emotions.

No, rape is unconsentual, other than that, a woman consents with the full knowledge that there exists a probability of pregnancy.

People can revoke consent, you know. If a woman is having sex consensually, can she not say "actually, I want to stop now. I no longer consent" or do you deny her that right?

[Blasveck]

What is the definition of legal personhood anyways?

[Mavorpen]

Yes, and they go to the hospital, they say I've just been raped, and they get an injection of oestrogen.

The fuck?

[Mavorpen]

People can revoke consent, you know. If a woman is having sex consensually, can she not say "actually, I want to stop now. I no longer consent" or do you deny her that right?

Silly person, women don't have the right to choose when to have sex.

[Ceannairceach]

Yes. Which means they don't consent to pregnancy.

Yes, and they go to the hospital, they say I've just been raped, and they get an injection of oestrogen.

*Sigh* Mav's saying that regardless of consent to sex, the women consents to pregnancy separately.

[Esternial]

Yes, and they go to the hospital, they say I've just been raped, and they get an injection of oestrogen.

The fuck?

Not sure if it's oestrogen, but a woman's pregnancy can be prevented with hormones.

As I recall, there are 3 major hormones in play, and oestrogen can inhibit certain hormones that prepare the womb for a pregnancy.

[Mavorpen]

The fuck?

Not sure if it's oestrogen, but a woman's pregnancy can be prevented with hormones.

As I recall, there are 3 major hormones in play, and oestrogen can inhibit certain hormones that prepare the womb for a pregnancy.

That's not the part that's "what the fuck" worthy.

I have no clue what rape has to do with what I said.

[The ivain isles]

No, rape is unconsentual, other than that, a woman consents with the full knowledge that there exists a probability of pregnancy.

People can revoke consent, you know. If a woman is having sex consensually, can she not say "actually, I want to stop now. I no longer consent" or do you deny her that right?

A woman consents to the act of sex, with the full knowledge of the probability of pregnancy, and no, I don't deny her the right to an abortion, as no such right exists. Do you have a right enslave a person who goes bankrupt, and then kill them for it?

[Ceannairceach]

People can revoke consent, you know. If a woman is having sex consensually, can she not say "actually, I want to stop now. I no longer consent" or do you deny her that right?

A woman consents to the act of sex, with the full knowledge of the probability of pregnancy, and no, I don't deny her the right to an abortion, as no such right exists. Do you have a right enslave a person who goes bankrupt, and then kill them for it?

Yes, she consents to sex. But not pregnancy. That's the fucking point.

The right to bodily sovereignty does exist, however, and that includes the right to do with your body what you will, including seeking an abortion to defend it from intruders.

[The ivain isles]

No, rape is unconsentual, other than that, a woman consents with the full knowledge that there exists a probability of pregnancy.

People can revoke consent, you know. If a woman is having sex consensually, can she not say "actually, I want to stop now. I no longer consent" or do you deny her that right?

No, because if he continues, it's rape.

[Sociobiology]

Are you suggesting all pregnancies are voluntary and made will full informed consent?
abortion is even one of the means to increase the likelihood of pregnancy.



you are the one saying her rights to her body are forfeit. there are only two outcomes the fetus's rights are forfeit or the woman's are.



Evolutionary biologist, all life has the potential to develop human level or greater intelligence. All that varies is the number of generation or amount of manipulation needed.
a ball of cells without a mind is not of greater value than a creature with thoughts and emotions.

No, rape is unconsentual, other than that, a woman consents with the full knowledge that there exists a probability of pregnancy.

probabilty =/= consent

being alive makes death probably, not committing suicide is not consent to homicide.
driving a car makes death more likely, this is not consent to death.

Her body is there before the pregnancy, it'll be there afterward, so no, there isn't.

so if I steal your car drive it around for a few weeks then drop it off back at your house, no crime has occurred?

Your effectively saying, a foetus has rights, we'll just choose to ignore them because a foetus isn't any benefit to me now.

not in the slightest, it has rights just as a dog has rights, its rights however do not include a right to use the organs of others against their will.

There's a huge scale in the difference of completely eliminating a foetus which has the high probability of seeing some 70+ years of life so a woman can keep nine months of comfort.

no it really does not. assuming no abortion happens it still has a less than 50% chance of reaching birth more less anything after that.

You still haven't told me when women are strapped down to tables for nine months, btw, and I've seen plenty of pregnant women moving about freely in, well, bodies.

but those women can also have an abortions if they wish, often in pill form.

Yes, and different species evolve between then and now.

and whats your point, both are potentialities, which so far has been your only justification.

When you find a rat capable of understanding mathematics, tell me.

rats have been shown to understand some mathematics in laboratory conditions.
when you find a fetus that understands mathematics tell me.

[Mavorpen]

A woman consents to the act of sex, with the full knowledge of the probability of pregnancy

Which isn't consent to pregnancy. Why do you guys always fail to grasp this simple fact? If you leave your home, knowing full well the probability that someone could break into it and rob you, does this mean you consent to the robbery? If you leave your home and go driving, knowing full well the probability of someone else hitting you, do you consent to being hit?

Of fucking course not. But you don't care about that, do you? No, as long as you can make yourself feel superior and punish the ebul sluts, you don't care.

[The ivain isles]

A woman consents to the act of sex, with the full knowledge of the probability of pregnancy, and no, I don't deny her the right to an abortion, as no such right exists. Do you have a right enslave a person who goes bankrupt, and then kill them for it?

Yes, she consents to sex. But not pregnancy. That's the fucking point.

The right to bodily sovereignty does exist, however, and that includes the right to do with your body what you will, including seeking an abortion to defend it from intruders.

Yes, becuase if we don't, the terrorist foetuses win, flying into women's wombs, and making them pregnant.

[Esternial]

A woman consents to the act of sex, with the full knowledge of the probability of pregnancy

Which isn't consent to pregnancy. Why do you guys always fail to grasp this simple fact? If you leave your home, knowing full well the probability that someone could break into it and rob you, does this mean you consent to the robbery? If you leave your home and go driving, knowing full well the probability of someone else hitting you, do you consent to being hit?

Of fucking course not. But you don't care about that, do you? No, as long as you can make yourself feel superior and punish the ebul sluts, you don't care.

Since he knows full well someone can kill him, knowing one's own mortality, he consents to being killed.

Thus: murder becomes euthanasia.

[Hallistar]

I am for capital punishment under certain instances (rape, gang shot callers, ect.). I'm also pro choice. And for your information, being pro choice is not "anti-life", as it has to do with the lack of personhood of the fetus, and, more importantly, women's right to bodily sovereignty.

And just incase people complain about any fetus feeling pain like a normal person would, this this and this.

[The Norgan Alliance]

No, rape is unconsentual, other than that, a woman consents with the full knowledge that there exists a probability of pregnancy.

Yes. Which means they don't consent to pregnancy.

But no one is arguing that point! I think all of us agree that abortion is allowed only in times when there is rape, incest, or if the mother's life is at risk. If anyone is against this then please let me know.

[Ceannairceach]

Yes, she consents to sex. But not pregnancy. That's the fucking point.

The right to bodily sovereignty does exist, however, and that includes the right to do with your body what you will, including seeking an abortion to defend it from intruders.

Yes, becuase if we don't, the terrorist foetuses win, flying into women's wombs, and making them pregnant.

Aye, pretty much. If the fetus isn't wanted, it is no better than a squatter.

[Shaggai]

People can revoke consent, you know. If a woman is having sex consensually, can she not say "actually, I want to stop now. I no longer consent" or do you deny her that right?

No, because if he continues, it's rape.

Then she can naturally revoke consent to pregnancy, as you consider it an extension of sex. If you do not consider it an extension of sex, it must therefore be consented to separately, and abortions are okay.