Treatment of farm animals.

[The Parkus Empire]

I don't see how. Some factory farmed animals in the U.S. are treated thus, and that's all you need to know for this discussion (if you bother to read the OP).

Your first question is whether factory farming needs to be made more humane by federal law. Don't act surprised that someone would ask for a better source of information of how humane the conditions actually are in the first place (so as to decide whether it needs to increase more so, or whether it is already adequate), especially after posting an incredibly provocative video.

Are you saying the video lies about what sometimes happens in farms in the U.S., or what? What exactly is it you don't believe happens on a relatively wide basis? Maceration chick culling?

Of course it's "provocative", it's propaganda.

[Hydesland]

Government officials do not tend to interfere with business when business not violating law

Eh? You just said there is widespread illegal practices.

and government monitoring of slaughter houses and feed lots is mostly "self reported" with perhaps the exception of the USDA inspector but that is for human safety. He does not tend to go to the other parts of the plant.

I'm not just talking about governments. I'm talking about academic institutions and private research firms.

[The Corparation]

Why the hell would we treat them humanely. They've been breed for hundreds to thousands of years to feed us. Their only purpose is to die for our tables. Why the hell should I care whether a chicken got to take a walk during its short miserable life, or if a cow did or didn't receive a chemical that hasn't been proven to do anything to people. Its food.

[The Parkus Empire]

Why the hell would we treat them humanely. They've been breed for hundreds to thousands of years to feed us. Their only purpose is to die for our tables. Why the hell should I care whether a chicken got to take a walk during its short miserable life, or if a cow did or didn't receive a chemical that hasn't been proven to do anything to people. Its food.

It's a question of pragmatism vs. empathy.

[Hydesland]

Are you saying the video lies about what sometimes happens in farms in the U.S., or what? What exactly is it you don't believe happens on a relatively wide basis? Maceration chick culling?

It might be misleading. The most offensive practices might all be illegal, even if they do happen, in which case what would be needed would be not be more federal laws, but better enforcement.

[The Parkus Empire]

Are you saying the video lies about what sometimes happens in farms in the U.S., or what? What exactly is it you don't believe happens on a relatively wide basis? Maceration chick culling?

It might be misleading. The most offensive practices might all be illegal, even if they do happen, in which case what would be needed would be not be more federal laws, but better enforcement.

Maceration chick culling is most certainly not illegal.

[Unilisia]

Why the hell would we treat them humanely. They've been breed for hundreds to thousands of years to feed us. Their only purpose is to die for our tables. Why the hell should I care whether a chicken got to take a walk during its short miserable life, or if a cow did or didn't receive a chemical that hasn't been proven to do anything to people. Its food.

Well when you get unhealthy qualities from the chemicals, you should seek action against the placement of those chemicals in the meat.

[Valtieres]

I really couldn't care about the animals. To me, they are just the unlucky bastards bottom of the food chain. Simple as that. Too stupid to evolve, too bad. I ain't no Pikachu breeder, and I don't plan on being one.

Food is food. Furry's can go hump tree's for all I care.

[The Corparation]

Why the hell would we treat them humanely. They've been breed for hundreds to thousands of years to feed us. Their only purpose is to die for our tables. Why the hell should I care whether a chicken got to take a walk during its short miserable life, or if a cow did or didn't receive a chemical that hasn't been proven to do anything to people. Its food.

Well when you get unhealthy qualities from the chemicals, you should seek action against the placement of those chemicals in the meat.

No the chemicals I'm thikning of are the ones they put on products that say "Comes from Cows not treated with ________!!" And then at the bootm how the FDA hasn't found any link between ______ and serious health problems.

[The Parkus Empire]

I really couldn't care about the animals. To me, they are just the unlucky bastards bottom of the food chain. Simple as that. Too stupid to evolve, too bad. I ain't no Pikachu breeder, and I don't plan on being one.

Food is food. Furry's can go hump tree's for all I care.

Which is why bestiality should be 100% legal.

[Natapoc]

Are you saying the video lies about what sometimes happens in farms in the U.S., or what? What exactly is it you don't believe happens on a relatively wide basis? Maceration chick culling?

It might be misleading. The most offensive practices might all be illegal, even if they do happen, in which case what would be needed would be not be more federal laws, but better enforcement.

The problem with your statement is I have no idea what practices you found "most offensive" Castration of pigs and docking tails without painkillers for example is quite standard and is not illegal. The majority of the things shown are not illegal.

There is no federal law in the US that protects "farm animals" from any form of abuse. There are state and county laws but they are all different.

[Hydesland]

Maceration chick culling is most certainly not illegal.

Are they made unconscious or receive anaesthetic before it happens? Also, last I recall maceration is instant death. Whereas beating their skulls on the ground most likely isn't. There is a difference.

[Valtieres]

I really couldn't care about the animals. To me, they are just the unlucky bastards bottom of the food chain. Simple as that. Too stupid to evolve, too bad. I ain't no Pikachu breeder, and I don't plan on being one.

Food is food. Furry's can go hump tree's for all I care.

Which is why bestiality should be 100% legal.

What? No. I'm merely implying that people stop wanking over such a trivial issue as animal treatment. Bestiality is just.......wierd.....and disturbing........

Remember that guy from the Ukraine?

[Hydesland]

The problem with your statement is I have no idea what practices you found "most offensive" Castration of pigs and docking tails without painkillers for example is quite standard and is not illegal. The majority of the things shown are not illegal.

I don't want to attempt to quantify every single practice in order of offensiveness, that's why I asked instead for another non biased overview.

[Tinapples]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_G8GjMxkQU

Blah, blah, blah.

Anyhow, questions are:

A: Should Federal laws be put into effect which requires farm animals to be treated in a more humane manner?
B: Could such laws even be effectively enforced?
C: Would such laws affect availability of animals products, as far as the poor go, since productions prices might rise?

EDIT: Apologies about the rather obvious agenda of the video.

I absolutely believe there should be laws leading to the better treatment of animals. It would have to be rules that really solved the problem, such as a ban on too close of quarters in all circumstances, limits on the amount of anti-biotics and other drugs used (by methods of eliminating the unsanitary conditions necessitating those drugs) and so on and so forth. And the price of meat rises? So be it. Poor people shouldn't be entitled to all the meat they want, thats defying the laws of nature in some way, who knows what the effect of that is. It might even lead to people eating more grains, fruits and vegetables.

[The Parkus Empire]

Are they made unconscious or receive anaesthetic before it happens?

I doubt it, judging from this: http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfa ... anasia.pdf

Check page 17. Exsanguination the only method I see that requires anesthetics.

Also, last I recall maceration is instant death. Whereas beating their skulls on the ground most likely isn't. There is a difference.

It's listed as an acceptable method, apperently.

[The Parkus Empire]

Which is why bestiality should be 100% legal.

What? No. I'm merely implying that people stop wanking over such a trivial issue as animal treatment. Bestiality is just.......wierd.....and disturbing........

Remember that guy from the Ukraine?

If you don't think bestiality should be perfectly legal (which I do, though it's certainly not something that interests me), then your stance is ethically inconsistent.

[Wamitoria]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_G8GjMxkQU

Blah, blah, blah.

Anyhow, questions are:

A: Should Federal laws be put into effect which requires farm animals to be treated in a more humane manner?
B: Could such laws even be effectively enforced?
C: Would such laws affect availability of animals products, as far as the poor go, since productions prices might rise?

EDIT: Apologies about the rather obvious agenda of the video.

A: Yes. It would increase the health value and safety of the food.
B: Yes, provided the FDA stops having sexy cocaine parties with various food manufacturers.
C: Tbh, most people could stand to eat a little less meat (if you can call most of the stuff on the shelves "meat," anyway).

Of course, this could also be fixed by subsidizing food prices in a sane manner.

[Natapoc]

The problem with your statement is I have no idea what practices you found "most offensive" Castration of pigs and docking tails without painkillers for example is quite standard and is not illegal. The majority of the things shown are not illegal.

I don't want to attempt to quantify every single practice in order of offensiveness, that's why I asked instead for another non biased overview.

I don't know if anyone who has no "agenda" has made any kind of overview. Text descriptions of specific techniques and practices are available. But if this is not what you want then I don't know that what you want exists.

As soon as a person mentions that they want to protect animals or decrease the harm done to them they suddenly have bias. To compile a full list from industry sources (which have an opposite bias but actually still describe all these things) while also pretending to not have any bias would be difficult.

[Valtieres]

What? No. I'm merely implying that people stop wanking over such a trivial issue as animal treatment. Bestiality is just.......wierd.....and disturbing........

Remember that guy from the Ukraine?

If you don't think bestiality should be perfectly legal (which I do, though it's certainly not something that interests me), then your stance is ethically inconsistent.

Ethically? Bah. I'm all for slaughtering animals, but the idea of screwing them is disgusting/revolting, not the empathetic disgusting.

[Hydesland]

Are they made unconscious or receive anaesthetic before it happens?

I doubt it, judging from this: http://www.avma.org/issues/animal_welfa ... anasia.pdf

Check page 17. Exsanguination the only method I see that requires anesthetics.

Also, last I recall maceration is instant death. Whereas beating their skulls on the ground most likely isn't. There is a difference.

It's listed as an acceptable method, apperently.

This is the sort of stuff I am looking for --b

Seems like I was right about it being instant:

A review[217] of the use of commercially available macerators for euthanasia of chicks, poults, and pipped eggs indicates that death by maceration in day-old poultry occurs immediately with minimal pain and distress.

[Hydesland]

I don't know if anyone who has no "agenda" has made any kind of overview. Text descriptions of specific techniques and practices are available. But if this is not what you want then I don't know that what you want exists.

As soon as a person mentions that they want to protect animals or decrease the harm done to them they suddenly have bias. To compile a full list from industry sources (which have an opposite bias but actually still describe all these things) while also pretending to not have any bias would be difficult.

TPE has already presented presented a credible source.

[The Murtunian Tribes]

If you don't think bestiality should be perfectly legal (which I do, though it's certainly not something that interests me), then your stance is ethically inconsistent.

Ethically? Bah. I'm all for slaughtering animals, but the idea of screwing them is disgusting/revolting, not the empathetic disgusting.

Actually Parkus is right. Although I agree bestiality shouldn't be legal, saying rape is not okay whereas slow painful murder is is an ethical incosistency. It has to both or none.

[Natapoc]

I don't know if anyone who has no "agenda" has made any kind of overview. Text descriptions of specific techniques and practices are available. But if this is not what you want then I don't know that what you want exists.

As soon as a person mentions that they want to protect animals or decrease the harm done to them they suddenly have bias. To compile a full list from industry sources (which have an opposite bias but actually still describe all these things) while also pretending to not have any bias would be difficult.

TPE has already presented presented a credible source.

Strange. What does the American Veterinary Medical Associations views on Euthanasia have to do with anything except to answer specific questions on what they view as acceptable methods of euthanasia?

[Hydesland]

Strange. What does the American Veterinary Medical Associations views on Euthanasia have to do with anything except to answer specific questions on what they view as acceptable methods of euthanasia?

It reveals information on the instantaneousness of euthanasia practices and how much pain an animal might suffer from it.