Astounding Immorality of Islam: Allah's "Rewards" in Heaven

[The Black Forrest]

I'm not sure if it is a vocal minority - it seems like every single thread on Islam is for people to rant on their hatred over the faith - then there''s that other group who claim they don't hate Muslims but hate Islam itself, which is like saying you don't hate Protestants but hate Christianity.

Aren't you basically committing the same crime you are speaking about against?

To me it seems only a minority of NSGers are not bigoted towards Islam - very few interested in looking at the issue from both sides while most just want something to target with their hatred and are not interested in real intellectual discussion without an underlying agenda.

It's a minority. Criticizing "bad Muslims" is not Islamophobia.

Islamophobia is an issue as serious as what African Americans had to endure during the Jim Crow era and Civil Rights movements - back then it was perfectly acceptable to call them by the N-Word and hate groups like the Ku Klux Klan were hailed as protectors of the American way of life.

Errr? Comparing your self to the "black experience"

Not sure that is valid as most African Americans didn't start in this country as equals. Many of the problems were driven by the legacy of slavery.

Today if an anti-Islamic organization like the EDL springs up its free speech while the KKK is outlawed.

The KKK was once involved in many violent crimes. Has the EDL done anything like lynching?

Now will Muslims have to go through decades of silent persecution with the mainstream population gradually being poisoned to believe their faith is pure savagery? The true savages are obviously the bigots who pretend to conduct in-depth research before firing off about how sick, perverted, brutal and backwards Islam is - their agenda is so clear - take down the faith in the process its peaceful followers will also suffer from the stigma - in time they will be responsible for people being ashamed of being Muslim - just as how Blacks were made to think they were an inferior race half a century ago.

Again the terrorist groups are not helping in the era of the Net and instance communication. Islam needs to adapt and do things for non-Muslims and get that fact out. Many are attempting that these days....

NSG is Islamophobic because there is never any balanced civilized discussion regarding Islam, the old poll is the Islamic discussion thread reflected how the majority of NSG saw Islam as plain 'bad'.

There are bigots sure. But to suggest all on NSG hate Islam? Rather simple minded thought and not exactly the foundation of a "balanced civilized discussion."

[Dyakovo]

Wow, an OP almost exclusively about the "immorality" of Islam?

Is riffing on Islam just the new, in-vogue thing for assholes nowadays or is it just me?

For people that don't agree with public executions, slavery, rape, and torture...yes.

I don't agree with any of those and I don't feel the need to "riff on" Islam any more than I do on Christianity...
Of course, that might be because I'm smart enough to realize Daesh does not represent Islam...

[Jochistan]

Being served by beautiful women/men in heaven is shockingly immoral?

Why doesn't Norse Paganism get wailed on then?

[Gauthier]

Being served by beautiful women/men in heaven is shockingly immoral?

Why doesn't Norse Paganism get wailed on then?

The talking point will be "Because nobody kills people in the name of Norse gods today".

[Benuty]

Being served by beautiful women/men in heaven is shockingly immoral?

Why doesn't Norse Paganism get wailed on then?

The talking point will be "Because nobody kills people in the name of Norse gods today".

Given so many of the so called neo-polytheists view the deities as metaphors rather than literal how could they?

[Islamic Republic e Jariri]

l4fsf

[Jochistan]

Being served by beautiful women/men in heaven is shockingly immoral?

Why doesn't Norse Paganism get wailed on then?

The talking point will be "Because nobody kills people in the name of Norse gods today".

Yeah, then attack the practices that are actually immoral, the Apostasy thing, the jihad articles, the stance on homosexuality, the music ban. (All found in non Qur'anic texts btw)

those are the shockingly immoral things. Why is Getting served by beautiful women / men in paradise in the same ballpark as those?

If possible celestial sex offends people as much as those...just...why?

[Gauthier]

The talking point will be "Because nobody kills people in the name of Norse gods today".

Yeah, then attack the practices that are actually immoral, the Apostasy thing, the jihad articles, the stance on homosexuality, the music ban. (All found in non Qur'anic texts btw)

those are the shockingly immoral things. Why is Getting served by beautiful women / men in paradise in the same ballpark as those?

If possible celestial sex offends people as much as those...just...why?

Establishing women as servile fucktoys is only bad when brown people do it.

[Sam Hyde]

It's a common theme in the abrahamaic religions.

The whole genre was based off "Bitch Got Us Kicked Out of Paradise," yet people act like only Muslims relegate women to fucktoy baby factories. *coughcoughJoshDuggarcoughcough*

Because Muslim countries are the only ones actually doing that.

[Islamic Republic e Jariri]

mv74bn

[Jochistan]

Yeah, then attack the practices that are actually immoral, the Apostasy thing, the jihad articles, the stance on homosexuality, the music ban. (All found in non Qur'anic texts btw)

those are the shockingly immoral things. Why is Getting served by beautiful women / men in paradise in the same ballpark as those?

If possible celestial sex offends people as much as those...just...why?

1). Umm actually... music does have an important and long -standing role in Islamic culture, haven't you ever heard of Sufi Islam?

Also this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_music

2). This may surprise you but the Quran neither explicitly promotes nor does it reject homosexuality:

The Quran contains seven references to fate of "the people of Lut" (references 7:80–84, 11:77–83, 21:74, 22:43, 26:165–175, 27:56–59, and 29:27–33), and their destruction by Allah is associated explicitly with their sexual practices:

"And (We sent) Lot when he said to his people: What! do you commit an indecency which any one in the world has not done before you? Most surely you come to males in lust besides females; nay you are an extravagant people. And the answer of his people was no other than that they said: Turn them out of your town, surely they are a people who seek to purify (themselves). So We delivered him and his followers, except his wife; she was of those who remained behind. And We rained upon them a rain; consider then what was the end of the guilty."[7:80–84 (Translated by Shakir)]

The sins of the people of Lut became proverbial, and the Arabic words for homosexual behaviour (liwat) and for a person who performs such acts (luti) both derive from his name.

Only one passage in the Qur'an which prescribes a strictly legal position, and is not restricted to homosexual behaviour - in that it deals with public practice of adultery more generally:

"And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them. And as for the two who are guilty of indecency from among you, give them both a punishment; then if they repent and amend, turn aside from them; surely Allah is oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful."[4:15–16 (Translated by Shakir)]

These are the only verses within the Quran itself which even come close to discussing homosexuality and as you can see, the People of Lot weren't punished for their homosexual acts but for their overall sexual decadence in general - the Quran itself never says that homosexuality in it of itself is sinful, but at the same time it doesn't condone it either - it is noticeably neutral on the matter.

My suspicions are that Islamic civilization's opposition to homosexuality isn't rooted to the Quran but to the middle eastern culture it originated from and whose political views therefore were the vocal point in Islam's spread but the one true authority on Islam itself does not specifically condemn homosexuality itself - and this could serve the function of allowing new interpretations of Islam to arise that are compatible with modern Western laws and culture.

I know. I'm Muslim myself.

I just think these issues are important to be adressed in the Muslim community.

[Imperializt Russia]

It's not "astoundingly immoral" though.
Absolutely not "astounding", its "immorality" is equal to Christianity.

[Carbon based lifeforms]

Wow... if that isn't bigotry then what is? You seem emotionally inflamed over the issue, to the extent that its clouding your objective judgement - which version of Islam are you even talking about? All versions and interpretations?

I reckon he's mostly referring to the Quran and Hadith, in the way Muhammad probably intended it. After all, if you take islamic scripture, leave out the parts you don't like, and interprete the rest in a way that suits you, are you really a muslim? Or are you just using your own moral compass without realizing it?

[Islamic Republic e Jariri]

n4556

[Bharataland]

Wow... if that isn't bigotry then what is? You seem emotionally inflamed over the issue, to the extent that its clouding your objective judgement - which version of Islam are you even talking about? All versions and interpretations?

As I said, there is nothing wrong with being anti-Islamic, just as there is nothing wrong with being anti-Nazi, or anti-rapist, or anti-pedophilia. And yes, essentially all versions of Islam are fundamentally immoral, because essentially all versions of Islam accept Muhammad as prophet of God and accept the Quran as a divinely-inspired holy book. The only way that any version of Islam can be considered moral is if it repudiates the claim that Muhammad was a morally upright individual, and that the Quran represents a moral guide for humanity.

You're just as bad as the 'muslims' who vocalize extremism - both sides of pure hatred and bigotry, its pretty ugly - and it promotes Islamophobia when you have one side advocating extremism and another condemning an entire faith for being nothing but extremism, this is exactly the kind of clash that fuels ignorance, you're a borderline troll. No more than that, your that typical person that each historical era has - a person who needs to scapegoat. Communism and Nazism isn't as relevant anymore, todays mainstream issue in that regard as been Islamic Fundamentalism and you want to use that as scapegoat for this era - in a way this unfortunate behavior is likely a natural phenomenon caused by contradicting sociological ideologies.

I have never killed anyone in my life, while Muslim extremists do. I have never raped anyone in my life or taken a woman as a sex slave, while Muslim extremists do. I have never tried to prevent anyone from speaking their opinion, while Muslim extremists do.

I'm just as bad as Muslim extremists? Try harder.

[Dyakovo]

The whole genre was based off "Bitch Got Us Kicked Out of Paradise," yet people act like only Muslims relegate women to fucktoy baby factories. *coughcoughJoshDuggarcoughcough*

Because Muslim countries are the only ones actually doing that.

Josh Duggar lives in a Muslim country?

[Commonwealth of Hank the Cat]

Just because a bunch of sick depraved rapists and pedophiles decided to call themselves "Islamic" and they together formed the "Islamic" "State" of Iraq and the Levant doesn't mean that they represent all of actual Islam, which is inherently peaceful.

[Islamic Republic e Jariri]

x43fgv

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Just because a bunch of sick depraved rapists and pedophiles decided to call themselves "Islamic" and they together formed the "Islamic" "State" of Iraq and the Levant doesn't mean that they represent all of actual Islam, which is inherently peaceful.

Not inherently.

Just because a bunch of sick depraved rapists and pedophiles decided to call themselves "Islamic" and they together formed the "Islamic" "State" of Iraq and the Levant doesn't mean that they represent all of actual Islam, which is inherently peaceful.

In Arabic, "peace" and "submission" are known by the same word. Islam is a religion of submission, not of "peace" as the civilized world understands it.

Most religions are religions of submission.

[Imperializt Russia]

It's not "astoundingly immoral" though.
Absolutely not "astounding", its "immorality" is equal to Christianity.

Yes, Islam is astoundingly immoral. Christianity is also astoundingly immoral, though not to the same extent as Islam. Christianity does not promise to give pious Christian men some non-Christian female sex slaves with pleasant vaginas in the afterlife. If anything, Christianity is at least consistent with regards to sexual ethics; it is opposed to sexual indulgence in the current life, but unlike Islam, does not promise sexual indulgence in the afterlife.

The Abrahamic religions in general are astoundingly immoral, especially when compared to modern secular humanism, which is the product of the greatest civilization in human history (the Enlightened, post-Christian West).

"Astounding" would suggest "without compare" which is entirely incorrect.

[Islamic Republic e Jariri]

k,k5

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Not inherently.

Most religions are religions of submission.

Submission to God, that's not unique to Islam.

Exactly.

[Carbon based lifeforms]

I reckon he's mostly referring to the Quran and Hadith, in the way Muhammad probably intended it. After all, if you take islamic scripture, leave out the parts you don't like, and interprete the rest in a way that suits you, are you really a muslim? Or are you just using your own moral compass without realizing it?

You do realize that the Quran itself is open to multiple interpretations - and that the majority of hadiths are either forged or generally unreliable and therefore have no solid ground in the scripture?

How can you know that he intended since that can only be uncovered through hadith, the majority of which are treated as unreliable.
Do you want to force Muslims to acknowledge extremist hadiths that are by consensus considered to be forgeries? By criticizing the Quran all yo're really doing is criticizing a particular interpretation of the verses you're reading, while ignoring that there are various different interpretations as well - is it really fair to blame an entire religion based on your individual interpretation of the source material when the religion itself is divided by its own diverse range of interpretations of the Quran?

But if it is so open to interpretation, what is the value of the Quran? If you can interprete the text in ways that are so completely different, what does it even tell you? If everyone can just see in it what he wants to see, then it tells you nothing about God. It's just a mirror for your own ideas.

[Esternial]

So they'll get a free subscription to all the hottest porn sites?

[Bharataland]

Yes, you're just as bad as those who vocalize extremism aka preach extremism aka promote extremism not by engaging in extremism itself by certainly encouraging and condoning it - just as you clearly want all Muslims to suffer by equating their faith with Nazism and Pedophilia - its people like you on both sides that contribute to the rise of Islamophobia, so yes, you're just as bad as those who support the extremist interpretation of Islam, you don't have to murder or rape, you just have to promote the bigotry like both sides already do.

What are you talking about? I have never advocated that we kill or enslave Muslims (as Muslim extremists advocate for the infidels). I am simply explaining that the Islamic doctrine is fundamentally immoral and inconsistent. As I said, there is nothing wrong with being "bigoted" against Islam, just as there is nothing wrong with being "bigoted" against Nazism, rape, or pedophilia. All of these things are immoral by the standards of the civilized world. However, I do not hate every single Muslim. Rather, I feel sorry for them, because it is the Muslims themselves who suffer the most from Islam.