I thought I'd sum it up for you.
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by Forster Keys » Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:57 pm
by Solaray » Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:58 pm
by Quintium » Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:58 pm
Forster Keys wrote:Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism.
by Yumyumsuppertime » Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:59 pm
Solaray wrote:Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
Who gets sued for saying "Merry Christmas"?
I've heard of instances where employers will say Merry Christmas to a non-Christian employee, and proceed to be sued over it. On the flip side, I've also heard of people losing their job for saying it. Another example is making it illegal to put any form of Christmas decorations in the public streets, but that's a different matter.
by Yumyumsuppertime » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:00 pm
Quintium wrote:Forster Keys wrote:Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism.
And I'm not saying it does. What I am saying, though, is that societies should be more tolerant - a buzz word, forgive me - of opinions that fall outside what that society considers 'clean' or 'normal'. You shouldn't be afraid to criticise a point of view, but it would be better if you'd refrain from simply ignoring it, ridiculing the person who brought it up and staying safe inside your bubble.
by Terra Sector Union » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:00 pm
Strobe Talbot. wrote:n the next century (now), nations as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single global authority and realize national sovereignty wasn’t such a great deal after all.
by Solaray » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:01 pm
Yumyumsuppertime wrote:Solaray wrote:I've heard of instances where employers will say Merry Christmas to a non-Christian employee, and proceed to be sued over it. On the flip side, I've also heard of people losing their job for saying it. Another example is making it illegal to put any form of Christmas decorations in the public streets, but that's a different matter.
Heard of it?
Do you have links? Examples that I can look at? Anything that isn't the equivalent of "My nephew's best friend's drinking buddy told me..."?
by The UK in Exile » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:01 pm
Quintium wrote:Forster Keys wrote:Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism.
And I'm not saying it does. What I am saying, though, is that societies should be more tolerant - a buzz word, forgive me - of opinions that fall outside what that society considers 'clean' or 'normal'. You shouldn't be afraid to criticise a point of view, but it would be better if you'd refrain from simply ignoring it, ridiculing the person who brought it up and staying safe inside your bubble.
by Quintium » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:04 pm
Yumyumsuppertime wrote:Why? Doesn't free speech also include ignoring opinions one finds ridiculous, or ridiculing the person who brought it up?
by Priory Academy USSR » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:06 pm
by Quintium » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:07 pm
Terra Sector Union wrote:Probably a non-christian worker that works in a business where Merry Christmas signs are all over the workplace. I don't even mind the PC term "Happy Holidays" but "Happy Winter Solstice" is laughable.
by Shaggai » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:08 pm
Solaray wrote:Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
Heard of it?
Do you have links? Examples that I can look at? Anything that isn't the equivalent of "My nephew's best friend's drinking buddy told me..."?
I'm having trouble finding some, so it very well may have been false. But I do know that some businesses put a sort of "Happy Holidays, or else" policy in effect, to avoid controversy, but since that's their business, it's their right to do so.
Quintium wrote:Forster Keys wrote:Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism.
And I'm not saying it does. What I am saying, though, is that societies should be more tolerant - a buzz word, forgive me - of opinions that fall outside what that society considers 'clean' or 'normal'. You shouldn't be afraid to criticise a point of view, but it would be better if you'd refrain from simply ignoring it, ridiculing the person who brought it up and staying safe inside your bubble.
by Quintium » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:14 pm
by The UK in Exile » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:16 pm
Quintium wrote:Here's an example of political correctness in the wider sense of the word. A whistleblower talks to his boss about the widespread fraud he has seen in the workplace. He's told: "Don't ever mention that again, you pessimist, or you might bring down the company. All is going well, and that's that." Political correctness, I think, is not just refusing to hear certain opinions - it is, in a more general sense, a reaction out of fear. Fear, that something you've been taught is right and with which you feel comfortable turns out to be wrong. Fear, that your life might change for the worse if some things come to light. Blissful ignorance over an uncomfortable truth, basically.
by Arumdaum » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:19 pm
Solaray wrote:Political correctness is alright until you start getting sued for saying "Merry Christmas". (Or similar instances)
by Forster Keys » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:24 pm
Quintium wrote:Forster Keys wrote:Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from criticism.
And I'm not saying it does. What I am saying, though, is that societies should be more tolerant - a buzz word, forgive me - of opinions that fall outside what that society considers 'clean' or 'normal'. You shouldn't be afraid to criticise a point of view, but it would be better if you'd refrain from simply ignoring it, ridiculing the person who brought it up and staying safe inside your bubble.
by Yumyumsuppertime » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:48 pm
Quintium wrote:Here's an example of political correctness in the wider sense of the word. A whistleblower talks to his boss about the widespread fraud he has seen in the workplace. He's told: "Don't ever mention that again, you pessimist, or you might bring down the company. All is going well, and that's that." Political correctness, I think, is not just refusing to hear certain opinions - it is, in a more general sense, a reaction out of fear. Fear, that something you've been taught is right and with which you feel comfortable turns out to be wrong. Fear, that your life might change for the worse if some things come to light. Blissful ignorance over an uncomfortable truth, basically.
by Lithosano » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:54 pm
Quintium wrote:Terra Sector Union wrote:Probably a non-christian worker that works in a business where Merry Christmas signs are all over the workplace. I don't even mind the PC term "Happy Holidays" but "Happy Winter Solstice" is laughable.
Actually, Winter Solstice is a pagan festival so it could be considered offensive to everyone but a tiny minority in some European countries.
by Gylias » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:55 pm
by Shaggai » Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:05 pm
by Trolldonia » Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:25 pm
by Alien Space Bats » Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:26 pm
Quintium wrote:My signature has a very sensible point on political correctness. The subjects for political correctness may have changed since the early 1940s, but the ways in which it is generally carried out have not. It's not so much overt government censorship - which is a shame, because then people couldn't deny it - but rather a sickening, deceptive form of self-censorship by those genuinely afraid of offending someone or something they're afraid to offend.
by Slooshas Crossing » Sun Nov 03, 2013 4:57 pm
Alien Space Bats wrote:Quintium wrote:My signature has a very sensible point on political correctness. The subjects for political correctness may have changed since the early 1940s, but the ways in which it is generally carried out have not. It's not so much overt government censorship - which is a shame, because then people couldn't deny it - but rather a sickening, deceptive form of self-censorship by those genuinely afraid of offending someone or something they're afraid to offend.
Let's be honest with ourselves: Conservative carpring about political correctness is largely an effort to avoid getting called out for being racist, sexist, or homophobic. It's as if Conservative America is telling the rest of us, "Look, if I want to call a black man 'nigger', a woman 'slut', and a gay man 'faggot", that's not my problem — it's yours. Grow a pair, accept my right to offend you, AND DON'T TALK BACK."
Thus, my response to criticism of "political correctness": If you want to be a racist, sexist, homophobic, or religious bigot, go ahead — shoot off your mouth. Use whatever hateful language and vile epithets you want; that IS indeed your right.
But don't whine when I rhetorically tear you a bloody new asshole, calling you out for your small-minded hatefulness and unsuitability as even a poor facsimile of a human being. If you're going to reserve the right to be insensitive to others around you, then I'm going to reserve the right to make your asshattery abundantly clear to the world, and ride you off into the sunset like a broken quarterhorse until you can't stand the sound of my voice in your ear.
Because if you insist on exercising your God-given right to bring discomfort and misery to the loves of others, then I'm going to make it my Karmic mission to bring discomfort and misery to yours. First Amendment, bitches.
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