[Q/R] Racism and hate speech

[Dalvius]

Imperial Union of America is notorious on NSG for his consistent pro-Nazi, pro-racist, anti-gay, anti-blackandothernonewhiteskincolors speeches.

Frankly, as a native, non-white Puerto Rican who lives in the United States of America, every time he spits a 'racism is good' or 'all non whites should go back to their own country' actually offends me pretty well, and it takes a marginal amount of patience and incense to keep myself from flaming him - like everyone else in the US or any other country, I have as much right to live there as anyone else, and my skin color and ethnicity shouldn't even matter. Likewise, many other users have fallen to flaming him as well - hell, one was just warned for calling IUA a fool in a seemingly sarcastic tone.

I was wondering if Imperial Union of America's constant hatemongering on this site counts as flamebaiting, as it seems that flame-baiting other users is the only purpose of IUA's constant hatemongering.

[Reploid Productions]

We don't rule on hypotheticals. If you believe he has been breaking the rules, report the specific posts and we'll take a look.

[Herargon]

Imperial Union of America is notorious on NSG for his consistent pro-Nazi, pro-racist, anti-gay, anti-blackandothernonewhiteskincolors speeches.

Frankly, as a native, non-white Puerto Rican who lives in the United States of America, every time he spits a 'racism is good' or 'all non whites should go back to their own country' actually offends me pretty well, and it takes a marginal amount of patience and incense to keep myself from flaming him - like everyone else in the US or any other country, I have as much right to live there as anyone else, and my skin color and ethnicity shouldn't even matter. Likewise, many other users have fallen to flaming him as well - hell, one was just warned for calling IUA a fool in a seemingly sarcastic tone.

I was wondering if Imperial Union of America's constant hatemongering on this site counts as flamebaiting, as it seems that flame-baiting other users is the only purpose of IUA's constant hatemongering.

A genuine follow-up on this, would it count as hate speech what he is saying? Isn't hate speech forbidden in Australia?

[Syberis]

"But perhaps I am partial to the complexion of my Country, for such kind of partiality is natural to Mankind." - Benjamin Franklin

I agree, if you're white, you're racist. and that's both natural and good.

All X are Y? Calling all whites racist, whether he owns his own racism or not, is still trolling.

"All African-Americans are criminals" would still be trolling if one was an African-American criminal, I assume.

[Dalvius]

Imperial Union of America is notorious on NSG for his consistent pro-Nazi, pro-racist, anti-gay, anti-blackandothernonewhiteskincolors speeches.

Frankly, as a native, non-white Puerto Rican who lives in the United States of America, every time he spits a 'racism is good' or 'all non whites should go back to their own country' actually offends me pretty well, and it takes a marginal amount of patience and incense to keep myself from flaming him - like everyone else in the US or any other country, I have as much right to live there as anyone else, and my skin color and ethnicity shouldn't even matter. Likewise, many other users have fallen to flaming him as well - hell, one was just warned for calling IUA a fool in a seemingly sarcastic tone.

I was wondering if Imperial Union of America's constant hatemongering on this site counts as flamebaiting, as it seems that flame-baiting other users is the only purpose of IUA's constant hatemongering.

A genuine follow-up on this, would it count as hate speech what he is saying? Isn't hate speech forbidden in Australia?

Considering that everyone on this site are from separate countries, I don't think Australian laws apply to the site.

But I do think that hate speech should be banned on the site.

[Chinevion]

While i hate hate speech, everyone has a right to spew whatever crap they want. I have always loved this sight, because of the anonymity, and how you can speak your mind. If you start banning things like that, then you lose some of that and start going down a slippery slope. If you dont like him jut ad him to your foes.

[The Blaatschapen]

While i hate hate speech, everyone has a right to spew whatever crap they want. I have always loved this sight, because of the anonymity, and how you can speak your mind. If you start banning things like that, then you lose some of that and start going down a slippery slope. If you dont like him jut ad him to your foes.

This is patently false.

We do not give people the right here to spew whatever crap they want. There are lines that cannot and should not be crossed. This is usually made clear by moderators chiming in with warnings, bans and (eventually) deletions.

[Chinevion]

Sorry, i miss spoke, I did not mean that their are not boundaries, but correct me if I'm wrong, but cases should be dealt with on singular basis?

[Herargon]

While i hate hate speech, everyone has a right to spew whatever crap they want. I have always loved this sight, because of the anonymity, and how you can speak your mind. If you start banning things like that, then you lose some of that and start going down a slippery slope. If you dont like him jut ad him to your foes.

The difference between hate speech and ''usual speech'' is pretty big.

Hate speech is not saying things like ''All whites are idiots'' or ''You're an asshole'' - that comes closer to flaming or trolling. It is also not ''I don't like you''.
Hate speech is much more grave.

An example of hate speech would be ''Let's kill all niggers at 11, tomorrow, on X Square!''. That can lead to bad actions.
The idea behind hate speech is that words can lead to actions, and those can have big real life consequences.
Similarly, it can also lead to the nasty thing of cyber bullying. I don't think we would accept cyber bullying on this website.

Am I correct, with saying that those are examples of lines that cannot and should not be crossed, The Blaatschappen?

[Farnhamia]

While i hate hate speech, everyone has a right to spew whatever crap they want. I have always loved this sight, because of the anonymity, and how you can speak your mind. If you start banning things like that, then you lose some of that and start going down a slippery slope. If you dont like him jut ad him to your foes.

The difference between hate speech and ''usual speech'' is pretty big.

Hate speech is not saying things like ''All whites are idiots'' or ''You're an asshole'' - that comes closer to flaming or trolling. It is also not ''I don't like you''.
Hate speech is much more grave.

An example of hate speech would be ''Let's kill all niggers at 11, tomorrow, on X Square!''. That can lead to bad actions.
The idea behind hate speech is that words can lead to actions, and those can have big real life consequences.
Similarly, it can also lead to the nasty thing of cyber bullying. I don't think we would accept cyber bullying on this website.

Am I correct, with saying that those are examples of lines that cannot and should not be crossed, The Blaatschappen?

We don't rule on hypotheticals. How often do we have to say this?

[Singularity of the Will]

While i hate hate speech, everyone has a right to spew whatever crap they want. I have always loved this sight, because of the anonymity, and how you can speak your mind. If you start banning things like that, then you lose some of that and start going down a slippery slope. If you dont like him jut ad him to your foes.

Agreed. "hate speech" is just speech. It is someone offering their views, nothing more. If you knee-jerk react to something someone says then maybe you really are the stereotype being portrayed. Too often people playing victims project the fault onto the person speaking a truth.

For example, it is not racist but fact to state, "Removing Black Male Americans from our society would eliminate 70 percent of our crime, especially violent crimes, overnight".

OVERNIGHT.

That statement is based on hard fact and truths, not hatred nor bias. Does it mean to say I dislike Black Male Americans? No, it means they need to clean up their collective act and start following the rules before the rest of America cleans house.

[Imperial Union of America]

"But perhaps I am partial to the complexion of my Country, for such kind of partiality is natural to Mankind." - Benjamin Franklin

I agree, if you're white, you're racist. and that's both natural and good.

All X are Y? Calling all whites racist, whether he owns his own racism or not, is still trolling.

"All African-Americans are criminals" would still be trolling if one was an African-American criminal, I assume.

I was speaking not In overt terms but in psychological terms. All humans inherently prefer their own race. When one describes implicit bias, I think every human is a racist as a result of his experiences. I think that's a fair statement. I was arguing that racism is natural.

On top of that, for all x are y to apply, it would have to be a negative statement, correct?

[Farnhamia]

All X are Y? Calling all whites racist, whether he owns his own racism or not, is still trolling.

"All African-Americans are criminals" would still be trolling if one was an African-American criminal, I assume.

I was speaking not In overt terms but in psychological terms. All humans inherently prefer their own race. When one describes implicit bias, I think every human is a racist as a result of his experiences. I think that's a fair statement. I was arguing that racism is natural.

On top of that, for all x are y to apply, it would have to be a negative statement, correct?

viewtopic.php?p=30187408#p30187408

[G-Tech Corporation]

Imperial Union of America is notorious on NSG for his consistent pro-Nazi, pro-racist, anti-gay, anti-blackandothernonewhiteskincolors speeches.

Frankly, as a native, non-white Puerto Rican who lives in the United States of America, every time he spits a 'racism is good' or 'all non whites should go back to their own country' actually offends me pretty well, and it takes a marginal amount of patience and incense to keep myself from flaming him - like everyone else in the US or any other country, I have as much right to live there as anyone else, and my skin color and ethnicity shouldn't even matter. Likewise, many other users have fallen to flaming him as well - hell, one was just warned for calling IUA a fool in a seemingly sarcastic tone.

I was wondering if Imperial Union of America's constant hatemongering on this site counts as flamebaiting, as it seems that flame-baiting other users is the only purpose of IUA's constant hatemongering.

It should be noted that Max has stated in the past that he believes the best way to address viewpoints such as fascism etc. is to engage with them in a civil manner. So long as any individual frequenting this website is willing to follow the rules and engage in polite discourse, regardless of their views, they are formally welcome to do so. Some views, like the views that want to display their national flag as a swastika, are against the rules. By and large, however, even the most fringe or outlandish of views are capable of being expressed in a manner that is conducive with being a member of this forum.

Individuals such as IUA walk a fine line with views that are widely disagree with, as such views can be more prone to tap-dancing on illegality in their statements. But that does not mean the site by any means bans such views outright; challenge yourself to engage in conversation with those who hold views you do not. The world is not a safe space where you can expect only to hear what you believe echoed back to you. A difference of opinion is not rulebreaking; report offenses from cis-het white authoritarians as you would even if they were committed by radfem otherkin or just an average joe.

[Imperial Union of America]

Imperial Union of America is notorious on NSG for his consistent pro-Nazi, pro-racist, anti-gay, anti-blackandothernonewhiteskincolors speeches.

Frankly, as a native, non-white Puerto Rican who lives in the United States of America, every time he spits a 'racism is good' or 'all non whites should go back to their own country' actually offends me pretty well, and it takes a marginal amount of patience and incense to keep myself from flaming him - like everyone else in the US or any other country, I have as much right to live there as anyone else, and my skin color and ethnicity shouldn't even matter. Likewise, many other users have fallen to flaming him as well - hell, one was just warned for calling IUA a fool in a seemingly sarcastic tone.

I was wondering if Imperial Union of America's constant hatemongering on this site counts as flamebaiting, as it seems that flame-baiting other users is the only purpose of IUA's constant hatemongering.

It should be noted that Max has stated in the past that he believes the best way to address viewpoints such as fascism etc. is to engage with them in a civil manner. So long as any individual frequenting this website is willing to follow the rules and engage in polite discourse, regardless of their views, they are formally welcome to do so. Some views, like the views that want to display their national flag as a swastika, are against the rules. By and large, however, even the most fringe or outlandish of views are capable of being expressed in a manner that is conducive with being a member of this forum.

Individuals such as IUA walk a fine line with views that are widely disagree with, as such views can be more prone to tap-dancing on illegality in their statements. But that does not mean the site by any means bans such views outright; challenge yourself to engage in conversation with those who hold views you do not. The world is not a safe space where you can expect only to hear what you believe echoed back to you. A difference of opinion is not rulebreaking; report offenses from cis-het white authoritarians as you would even if they were committed by radfem otherkin or just an average joe.

That's a nice way of thinking about it but some have openly called for me to be DOS'd or warned/banned for simply expressing those views regardless of whether or not they break any of the rules.

My views make them uncomfortable so they want them banned.

Australian laws do not apply here because the servers are based in the United States. So unless max himself does not commit hate speech per Australian law, he's safe.

The United States, where I live and hold citizenship, does not recognize "hate speech" as a crime and provides great latitude under the First Amendment to our Constitution. Infact, the government cannot pass hate speech laws because any such attempt would be surely ruled unconstitutional by the courts.

I take great effort to respect mods and the rules they provide here. I don't always succeed but I do make great effort. I would say that most people with my views would have already been banned, because they do not have appropriate respect for the rules here.

Although my views are highly controversial, I also make an attempt at being as civil as I can. I don't recall ever flaming anyone or insulting anyone or even insulting other races -- that's not what I'm here to do.

You can challenge my views and call them stupid, foolish or unrealistic. But you don't need to make this a safe space campaign to get me banned because my views offend you. Regardless, Max sets the guidelines and the mods set the rules and I try to follow them like everyone else.

In the Real world, you aren't protected from people you disagree with, no matter how much. Maybe this might be a good learning experience in civil discourse and respecting other people's opinions.

Hate speech/holocaust denial Is not against the law and I don't believe the mods should make it an inherent rule violation.

[Herargon]

It should be noted that Max has stated in the past that he believes the best way to address viewpoints such as fascism etc. is to engage with them in a civil manner. So long as any individual frequenting this website is willing to follow the rules and engage in polite discourse, regardless of their views, they are formally welcome to do so. Some views, like the views that want to display their national flag as a swastika, are against the rules. By and large, however, even the most fringe or outlandish of views are capable of being expressed in a manner that is conducive with being a member of this forum.

Individuals such as IUA walk a fine line with views that are widely disagree with, as such views can be more prone to tap-dancing on illegality in their statements. But that does not mean the site by any means bans such views outright; challenge yourself to engage in conversation with those who hold views you do not. The world is not a safe space where you can expect only to hear what you believe echoed back to you. A difference of opinion is not rulebreaking; report offenses from cis-het white authoritarians as you would even if they were committed by radfem otherkin or just an average joe.

That's a nice way of thinking about it but some have openly called for me to be DOS'd or warned/banned for simply expressing those views regardless of whether or not they break any of the rules.

My views make them uncomfortable so they want them banned.

Australian laws do not apply here because the servers are based in the United States. So unless max himself does not commit hate speech per Australian law, he's safe.

The United States, where I live and hold citizenship, does not recognize "hate speech" as a crime and provides great latitude under the First Amendment to our Constitution. Infact, the government cannot pass hate speech laws because any such attempt would be surely ruled unconstitutional by the courts.

I take great effort to respect mods and the rules they provide here. I don't always succeed but I do make great effort. I would say that most people with my views would have already been banned, because they do not have appropriate respect for the rules here.

Although my views are highly controversial, I also make an attempt at being as civil as I can. I don't recall ever flaming anyone or insulting anyone or even insulting other races -- that's not what I'm here to do.

You can challenge my views and call them stupid, foolish or unrealistic. But you don't need to make this a safe space campaign to get me banned because my views offend you. Regardless, Max sets the guidelines and the mods set the rules and I try to follow them like everyone else.

In the Real world, you aren't protected from people you disagree with, no matter how much. Maybe this might be a good learning experience in civil discourse and respecting other people's opinions.

Hate speech/holocaust denial Is not against the law and I don't believe the mods should make it an inherent rule violation.

That depends on the country. This site is made by an Australian but hosted in Canada, so it would fall under one of those. Both of those countries have hate speech laws, and thus in principe it would be forbidden...?

[Imperial Union of America]

That depends on the country. This site is made by an Australian but hosted in Canada, so it would fall under one of those. Both of those countries have hate speech laws, and thus in principe it would be forbidden...?

Doesn't matter who owns the server, only where it is based. You can't charge Max for violating hate speech laws for crimes not committed on Australian soil. If he were in Australia and did that, he would be liable. But because the server is in the United States, he is not.

If he committed hate crimes while based in Australia, he would be personally liable.

I believe the servers are based in Chicago last I heard, but I've heard Canada, too. In any case, I'm sure they would just move to U.S. servers if the Canadian authorities tried funny business like that. Of course I don't know that. But I know that in safe here in the United States.

[Lockdownn]

Relevant information. Please read: viewtopic.php?p=9083654#p9083654

[Dalvius]

It should be noted that Max has stated in the past that he believes the best way to address viewpoints such as fascism etc. is to engage with them in a civil manner. So long as any individual frequenting this website is willing to follow the rules and engage in polite discourse, regardless of their views, they are formally welcome to do so. Some views, like the views that want to display their national flag as a swastika, are against the rules. By and large, however, even the most fringe or outlandish of views are capable of being expressed in a manner that is conducive with being a member of this forum.

Individuals such as IUA walk a fine line with views that are widely disagree with, as such views can be more prone to tap-dancing on illegality in their statements. But that does not mean the site by any means bans such views outright; challenge yourself to engage in conversation with those who hold views you do not. The world is not a safe space where you can expect only to hear what you believe echoed back to you. A difference of opinion is not rulebreaking; report offenses from cis-het white authoritarians as you would even if they were committed by radfem otherkin or just an average joe.

I take great effort to respect mods and the rules they provide here. I don't always succeed but I do make great effort. I would say that most people with my views would have already been banned, because they do not have appropriate respect for the rules here.

Although my views are highly controversial, I also make an attempt at being as civil as I can. I don't recall ever flaming anyone or insulting anyone or even insulting other races -- that's not what I'm here to do.

It's literally posted up above that you called all whites racist, regardless of the fact that people prefer their own race, that pretty much counts as insulting races.

[Imperial Union of America]

I take great effort to respect mods and the rules they provide here. I don't always succeed but I do make great effort. I would say that most people with my views would have already been banned, because they do not have appropriate respect for the rules here.

Although my views are highly controversial, I also make an attempt at being as civil as I can. I don't recall ever flaming anyone or insulting anyone or even insulting other races -- that's not what I'm here to do.

It's literally posted up above that you called all whites racist, regardless of the fact that people prefer their own race, that pretty much counts as insulting races.

Is not an insult, it's a compliment. And all races are inherently biased to their own people.

[Dalvius]

It's literally posted up above that you called all whites racist, regardless of the fact that people prefer their own race, that pretty much counts as insulting races.

Is not an insult, it's a compliment. And all races are inherently biased to their own people.

I know, I prefer being around other Puerto Ricans, but I still enjoy being around other races.

And how is being called racist a compliment?

[Imperial Union of America]

Is not an insult, it's a compliment. And all races are inherently biased to their own people.

I know, I prefer being around other Puerto Ricans, but I still enjoy being around other races.

And how is being called racist a compliment?

In the same way being patriotic is a compliment.

[Philjia]

I know, I prefer being around other Puerto Ricans, but I still enjoy being around other races.

And how is being called racist a compliment?

In the same way being patriotic is a compliment.

Only in the mind of one who would rescind all rights from people who are different.

[Dalvius]

I know, I prefer being around other Puerto Ricans, but I still enjoy being around other races.

And how is being called racist a compliment?

In the same way being patriotic is a compliment.

...No, it isn't, but that's just me.

I don't exactly take being patriotic as a compliment, just a statement people say that "oh hey you like your country" or something like that.

[Twilight Imperium]

Only in the mind of one who would rescind all rights from people who are different.

Guys, this isn't NSG, don't do that here.

As for lil' Hitler, while I may find his alleged views brain-bendingly terrible, he has as much right to express them as I do my own here. Which is to say "no right whatsoever, but I am allowed to so long as I do so within the rules". Yes, the views he expresses are those of a fervent Nazi. No, that doesn't mean we should ban him from expressing them. Don't give into hatred, peeps - it's not worth it. If you really, truly cannot deal with IUA's posts, use the Ignore function. That's what it's here for.