[Q]Death Threads

[Mahdistan]

So before I begin, please, do not take this the wrong way. I am not trying to take advantage of the recent announcement of the death of Dyakovo. But, owing to the existence of the thread and that it is stickied, I'd like to know something.

A few months ago, someone whom I had spoken to on occasion here on NS died, Acro WA. When a death thread was set up to honor him, it was shortly taken down, saying that there really wasn't a place for such a thread. So now with this new memorial to Dyakovo, I wonder if there's been a change in policy, or if perhaps if it was due to Dyakovo being a better known figure in the community. Either way, should an official policy be made dictating memorial threads to NS members, and should it be based on popular demand for one, or should one be provided for all deceased former members of NS? Further, should every one be stickied to general for a period of time, or only ones which receive the demand for such?

[Czechanada]

Apparently the justification was the Closed and Invite only status.

[The Wolven League]

The thread in question: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=353412&hilit=Acro

[Reploid Productions]

If what is said is correct, I cannot abide such arbitrary and unjust policies that clearly favour certain posters over others and thus will be forced to boycott NS.

Overreaction much?

It's a tricky subject, partly because it (thankfully) has not come up very often and so we don't really have an especially clear prior precedent to go from; and partly because of privacy concerns, the friends and family of the deceased NSer may not want it spread about. In a case like Dyakovo's, the user was sufficiently well known and friends/family IRL are also users here and able to take charge of how much information they want shared about it. A lesser-known player may not have people on-site with that capability.

The longer the site lasts, the more likely cases like this are to crop up, so it would probably be a really good idea to try and come up with a uniform policy on the subject. One of the biggest issues with it that I can see is "Where does it go?" Dyakovo was predominantly known in NSG, so it makes sense that a thread about it would be in the section of the community that he was most involved with. Arco, in contrast, was a complete unknown to the NSG crowd, and assuming I'm looking at the right forum profile, was almost completely unknown to the forums entirely, but well-known within his region.

It would make sense for tribute notices or threads to be in the area of the community that the deceased was a big part of. That's where the player's NS friends are more likely to see it. Given how infrequently it happens (I can think of only 3-5 instances off the top of my head in 12 years modding,) allowing such threads a week or so in those areas isn't going to clutter up the place. Using that basis, Dyakovo's thread in NSG makes sense, but Arco's case would be better served via Dispatch or regional WFE; possibly Gameplay since that's where his handful of posts were made.

The other big issue is privacy. How much detail is okay to share? Obituaries are right out due to revealing personal info about the late player. Do we keep it limited to "X has died." or allow more detail about the cause? These are important considerations that need answers before we can even start to thrash out a general policy on this.

[Ikania]

Perhaps we could set up a sort of memorial hall for the tragically departed of NS.

Y'know, a mod-managed 'Hall of Memories' where names are inscribed and players come to pay their respects. Not that players could just post whatever they want, they'd have to contact a mod to get approval. Maybe a short obit (sparing the personal details, of course) dedicated to said players by their friends. Maybe a separate thread for really important players that would later be merged with the Hall when grieving is done.

Either way, it's best to have some concrete policy on what happens on this rare occasion. If I remember correctly, around 2005, a prominent NSer died while fighting in Iraq. Someone like that deserves eternal commemoration for their service, some sort of marked headstone on the online forum.

[Ularn]

Perhaps we could set up a sort of memorial hall for the tragically departed of NS.

Y'know, a mod-managed 'Hall of Memories' where names are inscribed and players come to pay their respects. Not that players could just post whatever they want, they'd have to contact a mod to get approval. Maybe a short obit (sparing the personal details, of course) dedicated to said players by their friends. Maybe a separate thread for really important players that would later be merged with the Hall when grieving is done.

Either way, it's best to have some concrete policy on what happens on this rare occasion. If I remember correctly, around 2005, a prominent NSer died while fighting in Iraq. Someone like that deserves eternal commemoration for their service, some sort of marked headstone on the online forum.

I can't think of anything worse that having a dedicated graveyard thread anywhere on NS. Well, that's a a lie; I can think of worse things but most of them involve the site hosting niche pornography.

Apart from the Diplomacy subforums, pretty much every major subforum on NS already has it's own chat thread, right? General has TET, P2tM has the Restaurant, the World Assembly has the Stranger's Bar and so on. I don't know if Gameplay has an equivalent or not since I've never hung out there but either way each region has its own thread there anyway. It seems to me that these would be the best places for death notices; in the chat thread of whichever subforum they tended to frequent most. The message will quickly get to those it's most likely to affect; they'll have the chance to say a few words or comment and then the conversation will move on and we don't have a morbid looking death thread sitting around the forums for several days, eventually gathering flame wars and trolls.

Yes, it's not exactly a lasting monument to the player but come on; this is a forum for an online game. Mourning is not the business that we're about and while players should be welcome to make comment on a fellow who's died, it should not start to look like a thing we focus on.

[The Wolven League]

If what is said is correct, I cannot abide such arbitrary and unjust policies that clearly favour certain posters over others and thus will be forced to boycott NS.

Overreaction much?

It's a tricky subject, partly because it (thankfully) has not come up very often and so we don't really have an especially clear prior precedent to go from; and partly because of privacy concerns, the friends and family of the deceased NSer may not want it spread about. In a case like Dyakovo's, the user was sufficiently well known and friends/family IRL are also users here and able to take charge of how much information they want shared about it. A lesser-known player may not have people on-site with that capability.

The longer the site lasts, the more likely cases like this are to crop up, so it would probably be a really good idea to try and come up with a uniform policy on the subject. One of the biggest issues with it that I can see is "Where does it go?" Dyakovo was predominantly known in NSG, so it makes sense that a thread about it would be in the section of the community that he was most involved with. Arco, in contrast, was a complete unknown to the NSG crowd, and assuming I'm looking at the right forum profile, was almost completely unknown to the forums entirely, but well-known within his region.

It would make sense for tribute notices or threads to be in the area of the community that the deceased was a big part of. That's where the player's NS friends are more likely to see it. Given how infrequently it happens (I can think of only 3-5 instances off the top of my head in 12 years modding,) allowing such threads a week or so in those areas isn't going to clutter up the place. Using that basis, Dyakovo's thread in NSG makes sense, but Arco's case would be better served via Dispatch or regional WFE; possibly Gameplay since that's where his handful of posts were made.

The other big issue is privacy. How much detail is okay to share? Obituaries are right out due to revealing personal info about the late player. Do we keep it limited to "X has died." or allow more detail about the cause? These are important considerations that need answers before we can even start to thrash out a general policy on this.

Just pointing out that Acro's memorial OP was his brother.

[The Blaatschapen]

I am not a fan of an official Hall of Memories place on NS (something maintained by mods/admins).

For two reasons:

1. Closure. At a certain point, closure of the griefing period is needed (for us as NS). While the deceased should not be forgotten, a prominent official display of them is not going to help with closure. And since dealing with death and mourning is something subject to each and every individual's personal tatste, a "one size fits all" solution does not have my preference at all.

2. Death fakers (and yes, this has happened in the past that someone claimed another nation's player died; No, details are unneccessary to discuss here). I do not feel comfortable, as a mod and as a person, to give these cases the same weight as the ones that have truly died (in fact, I consider this a DEAT if not DOS worthy case of trolling, other mods' opinions may vary). And since our official mod tools are incapable of finding out if someone truly died, I do not want to give official status to those trolls, because it would tarnish and besmirch the actual deceased.

That said, I remember there being a 'Notable nations of the past' wiki page. Since it is not under the direct maintenance of the mods, but rather a community-wide effort, I'm fine with such a page.

I'm also okay with every community (NSG, GP, NSsports, etc.) to figure out their own best ways to honour and mourn the RL deceased. And that we, mods, can accomodate this where necessary within reasonable limits (eg. stickying a player-started thread, archiving said threads, etc.).

[Kauthar]

Apologies if I'm not allowed to post here, but I think the reason Dyakovo had a remembrance thread was due to being very well known in NSG.

[The Archregimancy]

I am not a fan of an official Hall of Memories place on NS (something maintained by mods/admins).

For two reasons:

1. Closure. At a certain point, closure of the griefing period is needed (for us as NS). While the deceased should not be forgotten, a prominent official display of them is not going to help with closure. And since dealing with death and mourning is something subject to each and every individual's personal tatste, a "one size fits all" solution does not have my preference at all.

2. Death fakers (and yes, this has happened in the past that someone claimed another nation's player died; No, details are unneccessary to discuss here). I do not feel comfortable, as a mod and as a person, to give these cases the same weight as the ones that have truly died (in fact, I consider this a DEAT if not DOS worthy case of trolling, other mods' opinions may vary). And since our official mod tools are incapable of finding out if someone truly died, I do not want to give official status to those trolls, because it would tarnish and besmirch the actual deceased.

That said, I remember there being a 'Notable nations of the past' wiki page. Since it is not under the direct maintenance of the mods, but rather a community-wide effort, I'm fine with such a page.

I'm also okay with every community (NSG, GP, NSsports, etc.) to figure out their own best ways to honour and mourn the RL deceased. And that we, mods, can accomodate this where necessary within reasonable limits (eg. stickying a player-started thread, archiving said threads, etc.).

In addition to the reasons listed by Blaat - and I also know of at least one relatively recent case of a likely faked death (and no, I don't want to discuss details at this point) - I would add that I don't think it's a good idea to leave the decision as to who warrants a place in the 'Hall of Fame' to the moderation team.

This would potentially lead to unnecessary and avoidable tension when arguments - and they would be more or less unavoidable - took place over whether a deceased player warranted a place in the 'Hall of Fame'. If membership of the latter is supposed to be selective, and restricted to the 'worthy' deceased, then we inevitably alienate everyone whose friends and family aren't considered 'worthy'.

Would any of you want to be in the position of telling a grieving player that their friend or family member doesn't merit a place in the 'Hall of Fame'? And for similar reasons, would anyone seriously want that to be put to a vote? Or, even worse (given the potential for trolling), put it up for discussion?

[Czechanada]

I am not a fan of an official Hall of Memories place on NS (something maintained by mods/admins).

For two reasons:

1. Closure. At a certain point, closure of the griefing period is needed (for us as NS). While the deceased should not be forgotten, a prominent official display of them is not going to help with closure. And since dealing with death and mourning is something subject to each and every individual's personal tatste, a "one size fits all" solution does not have my preference at all.

2. Death fakers (and yes, this has happened in the past that someone claimed another nation's player died; No, details are unneccessary to discuss here). I do not feel comfortable, as a mod and as a person, to give these cases the same weight as the ones that have truly died (in fact, I consider this a DEAT if not DOS worthy case of trolling, other mods' opinions may vary). And since our official mod tools are incapable of finding out if someone truly died, I do not want to give official status to those trolls, because it would tarnish and besmirch the actual deceased.

That said, I remember there being a 'Notable nations of the past' wiki page. Since it is not under the direct maintenance of the mods, but rather a community-wide effort, I'm fine with such a page.

I'm also okay with every community (NSG, GP, NSsports, etc.) to figure out their own best ways to honour and mourn the RL deceased. And that we, mods, can accomodate this where necessary within reasonable limits (eg. stickying a player-started thread, archiving said threads, etc.).

In addition to the reasons listed by Blaat - and I also know of at least one relatively recent case of a likely faked death (and no, I don't want to discuss details at this point) - I would add that I don't think it's a good idea to leave the decision as to who warrants a place in the 'Hall of Fame' to the moderation team.

This would potentially lead to unnecessary and avoidable tension when arguments - and they would be more or less unavoidable - took place over whether a deceased player warranted a place in the 'Hall of Fame'. If membership of the latter is supposed to be selective, and restricted to the 'worthy' deceased, then we inevitably alienate everyone whose friends and family aren't considered 'worthy'.

Would any of you want to be in the position of telling a grieving player that their friend or family member doesn't merit a place in the 'Hall of Fame'? And for similar reasons, would anyone seriously want that to be put to a vote? Or, even worse (given the potential for trolling), put it up for discussion?

Wouldn't it be best to avoid the topic of memorial threads entirely to avoid such awkward misappropriation?

[Fartsniffage]

I am not a fan of an official Hall of Memories place on NS (something maintained by mods/admins).

For two reasons:

1. Closure. At a certain point, closure of the griefing period is needed (for us as NS). While the deceased should not be forgotten, a prominent official display of them is not going to help with closure. And since dealing with death and mourning is something subject to each and every individual's personal tatste, a "one size fits all" solution does not have my preference at all.

2. Death fakers (and yes, this has happened in the past that someone claimed another nation's player died; No, details are unneccessary to discuss here). I do not feel comfortable, as a mod and as a person, to give these cases the same weight as the ones that have truly died (in fact, I consider this a DEAT if not DOS worthy case of trolling, other mods' opinions may vary). And since our official mod tools are incapable of finding out if someone truly died, I do not want to give official status to those trolls, because it would tarnish and besmirch the actual deceased.

That said, I remember there being a 'Notable nations of the past' wiki page. Since it is not under the direct maintenance of the mods, but rather a community-wide effort, I'm fine with such a page.

I'm also okay with every community (NSG, GP, NSsports, etc.) to figure out their own best ways to honour and mourn the RL deceased. And that we, mods, can accomodate this where necessary within reasonable limits (eg. stickying a player-started thread, archiving said threads, etc.).

In addition to the reasons listed by Blaat - and I also know of at least one relatively recent case of a likely faked death (and no, I don't want to discuss details at this point) - I would add that I don't think it's a good idea to leave the decision as to who warrants a place in the 'Hall of Fame' to the moderation team.

This would potentially lead to unnecessary and avoidable tension when arguments - and they would be more or less unavoidable - took place over whether a deceased player warranted a place in the 'Hall of Fame'. If membership of the latter is supposed to be selective, and restricted to the 'worthy' deceased, then we inevitably alienate everyone whose friends and family aren't considered 'worthy'.

Would any of you want to be in the position of telling a grieving player that their friend or family member doesn't merit a place in the 'Hall of Fame'? And for similar reasons, would anyone seriously want that to be put to a vote? Or, even worse (given the potential for trolling), put it up for discussion?

While I don't like the idea of a hall of fame, I did kinda like one of the ideas floated in the thread about having some kind of memorial region where the nations of deceased players can just sit in perpetuity, not CTEing or growing. Just sitting around in case people become nostalgic.

[The Archregimancy]

While I don't like the idea of a hall of fame, I did kinda like one of the ideas floated in the thread about having some kind of memorial region where the nations of deceased players can just sit in perpetuity, not CTEing or growing. Just sitting around in case people become nostalgic.

It's a better idea than a Hall of Fame, but it still runs into two logistical problems:

1) We can't always know when a CTE'd individual is just CTE or has, well, died. Not everyone has a family member, close friend, or even social media network active on this site.

2) There are cases when people fake a death, unpleasant though that may seem. I have an awful feeling that some people would be tempted to fake their own internet death just to get themselves into the memorial region; and if that seems unlikely, I can only note that this is the internet.

I'm not rejecting the idea entirely out of hand, but I'd like to see some ideas on how we could get around those logistical barriers.

[Fartsniffage]

While I don't like the idea of a hall of fame, I did kinda like one of the ideas floated in the thread about having some kind of memorial region where the nations of deceased players can just sit in perpetuity, not CTEing or growing. Just sitting around in case people become nostalgic.

It's a better idea than a Hall of Fame, but it still runs into two logistical problems:

1) We can't always know when a CTE'd individual is just CTE or has, well, died. Not everyone has a family member, close friend, or even social media network active on this site.

2) There are cases when people fake a death, unpleasant though that may seem. I have an awful feeling that some people would be tempted to fake their own internet death just to get themselves into the memorial region; and if that seems unlikely, I can only note that this is the internet.

I'm not rejecting the idea entirely out of hand, but I'd like to see some ideas on how we could get around those logistical barriers.

The first is simple, if you don't know then you don't know. Nothing can be done there.

As to the second, quite frankly, so what? If a few walnuts want to try and get their locked down nation into a memorial region for their own chuckles then who cares? People fuck in cemeteries and spray paint war memorials and we just kick them out and punish them when they're caught, we don't decide not to have memorials. Just treat it as a DOS offence and have done with it.

I really don't see either of those as barriers. If there were technical reasons why it couldn't be done then I'd understand that but internet people being internet people doesn't seem like a valid argument against anything unless it's a valid argument against everything done on this website.

[NERVUN]

It's a better idea than a Hall of Fame, but it still runs into two logistical problems:

1) We can't always know when a CTE'd individual is just CTE or has, well, died. Not everyone has a family member, close friend, or even social media network active on this site.

2) There are cases when people fake a death, unpleasant though that may seem. I have an awful feeling that some people would be tempted to fake their own internet death just to get themselves into the memorial region; and if that seems unlikely, I can only note that this is the internet.

I'm not rejecting the idea entirely out of hand, but I'd like to see some ideas on how we could get around those logistical barriers.

The first is simple, if you don't know then you don't know. Nothing can be done there.

As to the second, quite frankly, so what? If a few walnuts want to try and get their locked down nation into a memorial region for their own chuckles then who cares? People fuck in cemeteries and spray paint war memorials and we just kick them out and punish them when they're caught, we don't decide not to have memorials. Just treat it as a DOS offence and have done with it.

I really don't see either of those as barriers. If there were technical reasons why it couldn't be done then I'd understand that but internet people being internet people doesn't seem like a valid argument against anything unless it's a valid argument against everything done on this website.

There is a technical argument though.

Last time this was brought up, IIRC, [violet] said that making a nation non-CTE'ing would involve a LOT of code changing. I honestly don't know the details, but it apparently has something to do with how the server counts time and checks nations. Making anything last forever, nationwise, would cause a lot of things to go 'boing'. Now, this may have changed as [violet] and the other admins have been tinkering with other things, but last time was a no-go.

[USS Monitor]

Memorial threads should be allowed, but I don't see the need for anything more elaborate. People posts don't go away when their nations CTE.

If you really want your nation not to CTE in case you die, write a will IRL and leave your nation to someone.

[Canton Empire]

How about just a tread, a region or a dispatch that is a hall of fame for any CTe(longer then a yea)r nation that has contributed to NS in a great or influential manner

[Ularn]

How about just a tread, a region or a dispatch that is a hall of fame for any CTe(longer then a yea)r nation that has contributed to NS in a great or influential manner

The problem there, as others have already discussed, is how you define "great or influential"? Sure, nations who have been moderators, mentors or issue writers would probably qualify automatically, but what about everyone else who only hangs out in General, P2tM or Diplomacy? They might have a significant and influential presence on those boards but where do you set the boundary for how influential a nation has to be before it's admitted into this hall of fame? Anywhere you set it, it's going to appear arbitrary.

As for the one year time limit, that imposes problems of its own. Just because a nation's CTE'd for a year doesn't mean the player's dead or that they have no intention of coming back to it. I for one have abandoned my nation for whole years at a time because of real life commitments and then returned when I've been able. Let's say I've built up enough of a reputation in P2tM for Ularn to be admitted into the Hall of Fame (although how you'd determine this after a year of inactivity, by which point a player's influence will have dropped to near or actual zilch, is another problem with this proposal) but then I return to NS and try to resurrect it, do I get my nation back or is it permanently locked away from me? If I get it back, doesn't that cheapen the whole point of this monument thing by having living players and nations still on it? If I don't get it back and I have to make a new nation, aren't I being punished for being too well-regarded on this game?

[Euroslavia]

How about just a tread, a region or a dispatch that is a hall of fame for any CTe(longer then a yea)r nation that has contributed to NS in a great or influential manner

Then the debate starts on who "contributed to NS in a great or influential manner", which could lead to even more problems.

[Anagonia]

Pardon my intrusion.

I've noted the debate has circled around the point of "whose influential". If I may, staff and anyone with a tag is automatically biased to another person with said tag or friends of that person. It is, quite frankly, favoritism at its most prominent example. People who have influence, regardless if they are recognized openly or through back channels, will always be recognized for their contributions in some form or another. We many who are not in favor, have fallen out of favor, or will eventually be destroyed by lack thereof, are placed on the back burner. It is typical human nature, and one which displays itself every year, month, week, and day on this site. As long as I have existed and ghosted here, that has been the common theme.

Now, to the debate on what to do about "appeasing the lesser people". Because, let's face it, that's what this debate is about. With due respect and condolences made to the deceased (Blessings to Their Soul), let us consider an alternative method. It has already been mentioned. A forum dedicated to everyone, monitored by Moderation and/or chosen staff members or forum goers whom demonstrate keen abilities of sympathy to ascertain truthful information, and provide adequate support in times of need. I hate to place it this way, but this site no longer has the ability to maintain the status quo of a pyramid culture scheme in all affairs. As moderation staff has already mentioned, they have maintained this status quo for the benefit of ease of workload. This, unfortunately, cannot be maintained.

A prime example of this is the introduction of Mentors to the Role Playing forum. This was done only because of the moderator workload (or lack thereof) and it just recently (within, say, a few months to the beginning of this year) came to any form of fruition. This being the case, and a good example, it must be pressed that the Moderation staff will be pushed to make a decision on this affair. Someone else will die, someone prominent or not, and the staff must make a decision to maintain their stance on stifling the speech therein to the affair, embracing it and encouraging the mourning, or assigning similar staff as those to Mentors to assist in these affairs.

With all this said, I understand and I deeply hope these situations with....our brothers and sisters in writing dying...happen less. It is a part of human nature, but it is a necessary part, and the staff and members here have two options. Maintain the status quo of deciding whether it's too much work to undertake or, make the decision to do something about it.

I personally encourage doing something about it. Assign those individuals you trust or know whom can help in this deeply personal manner. Let the culture flourish with all members coming together in these times, instead of them bickering about feeling oppressed.

Thank you for your time, and I apologize again if my response was unwarranted. May the deceased rest easy, and condolences to those affected.
-Travis

[The Equal Peoples State of Steelia]

Pardon my intrusion.

I've noted the debate has circled around the point of "whose influential". If I may, staff and anyone with a tag is automatically biased to another person with said tag or friends of that person. It is, quite frankly, favoritism at its most prominent example. People who have influence, regardless if they are recognized openly or through back channels, will always be recognized for their contributions in some form or another. We many who are not in favor, have fallen out of favor, or will eventually be destroyed by lack thereof, are placed on the back burner. It is typical human nature, and one which displays itself every year, month, week, and day on this site. As long as I have existed and ghosted here, that has been the common theme.

Now, to the debate on what to do about "appeasing the lesser people". Because, let's face it, that's what this debate is about. With due respect and condolences made to the deceased (Blessings to Their Soul), let us consider an alternative method. It has already been mentioned. A forum dedicated to everyone, monitored by Moderation and/or chosen staff members or forum goers whom demonstrate keen abilities of sympathy to ascertain truthful information, and provide adequate support in times of need. I hate to place it this way, but this site no longer has the ability to maintain the status quo of a pyramid culture scheme in all affairs. As moderation staff has already mentioned, they have maintained this status quo for the benefit of ease of workload. This, unfortunately, cannot be maintained.

A prime example of this is the introduction of Mentors to the Role Playing forum. This was done only because of the moderator workload (or lack thereof) and it just recently (within, say, a few months to the beginning of this year) came to any form of fruition. This being the case, and a good example, it must be pressed that the Moderation staff will be pushed to make a decision on this affair. Someone else will die, someone prominent or not, and the staff must make a decision to maintain their stance on stifling the speech therein to the affair, embracing it and encouraging the mourning, or assigning similar staff as those to Mentors to assist in these affairs.

With all this said, I understand and I deeply hope these situations with....our brothers and sisters in writing dying...happen less. It is a part of human nature, but it is a necessary part, and the staff and members here have two options. Maintain the status quo of deciding whether it's too much work to undertake or, make the decision to do something about it.

I personally encourage doing something about it. Assign those individuals you trust or know whom can help in this deeply personal manner. Let the culture flourish with all members coming together in these times, instead of them bickering about feeling oppressed.

Thank you for your time, and I apologize again if my response was unwarranted. May the deceased rest easy, and condolences to those affected.
-Travis

Ditto, very well put sir.

[Ularn]

I honestly don't see the point in making any arrangement different from what we already did with Dyakovo. Someone can post something in the appropriate subforums for the deceased player - possibly just leave it in at subforum's chat thread - and people can say whatever they need to say and then we can be done with it.

Doing anything else like creating any sort of hall of fame runs the inevitable risk of people faking their deaths to get in there. Think of all the people who try to suicide by mod for whatever reason. With a hall of fame they're more likely to think, "Hey, now I can quit NS and be immortalised there at the same time. Winner!" If all they get is a thread and some momentary attention then the temptation is reduced and if anyone does attempt it then the mod response can be a simple, "Congratulations; you're a dick and now you're DoS!"

Besides that, is is a forum. This is a roleplaying forum to support an online game that was developed to publicise a science fiction novel. This is a game where we fight zombies once a year and do other daft stuff around every April 1st. This is a game where I can have pizzas delivered via drone strike to a citizenry of subterranean mole people while working on a Death Star, and none of those things I just mentioned are even Easter Eggs! Installing some sort of monument to dead players is taking ourselves far, far more seriously than is warranted.

Dyakovo's signature famously reads "Don't take life so serious... It isn't permanent..." Let's not be taking death so seriously here either; the real world will take care of that job well enough.

[Frisbeeteria]

Back when I was an official on the original NSwiki, I created a page called "The Halls of Memory" (or something close to that). There was a big list at the top called "The Cenotaph" where nations that had ceased to exist could be listed. Anyone with edit rights on the wiki could add names. If people wanted more, they could use that to link to a nation page, which could contain whatever people wanted to put on it. Popularity wasn't an issue - I never knew who half the named nations were, but who cares. Somebody thought it was important to add the name. That's enough.

That's where this sort of thing belongs. We don't need a dedicated forum. We don't need popularity contests. We really don't need forum threads at all.

Doing anything else like creating any sort of hall of fame runs the inevitable risk of people faking their deaths to get in there.

Make no mistake - this is absolutely correct. It's a particular obscene form of trolling, in my opinion.

[Swith Witherward]

While I don't like the idea of a hall of fame, I did kinda like one of the ideas floated in the thread about having some kind of memorial region where the nations of deceased players can just sit in perpetuity, not CTEing or growing. Just sitting around in case people become nostalgic.

It's a better idea than a Hall of Fame, but it still runs into two logistical problems:

1) We can't always know when a CTE'd individual is just CTE or has, well, died. Not everyone has a family member, close friend, or even social media network active on this site.

2) There are cases when people fake a death, unpleasant though that may seem. I have an awful feeling that some people would be tempted to fake their own internet death just to get themselves into the memorial region; and if that seems unlikely, I can only note that this is the internet.

I'm not rejecting the idea entirely out of hand, but I'd like to see some ideas on how we could get around those logistical barriers.

I sheepishly confess to listening to rumors a few years back, and spending a few solid weeks sobbing my eyes out because I was convinced that a beloved online friend had passed. Imagine my shock (and explosive joy) when the "dearly departed" returned to NS two years later. That'll larn me.

It would be nice if there was a way to preserve nation's name, thereby keeping it eternal (including their factbooks, etc). In the case of autism or other disorders, NationStates plays a large part of a kid's life; they learn to interact better, to improve their reading/writing, etc. It would be a kindly gesture to memorialize a loved one for the sake of their family. I'd expect the family would need to provide a certificate of death to qualify. Would I go so far as to push for a memorial thread or region? No. It opens the door for trolls. However, keeping that nation alive is a way of keeping that person's creative work alive. Often, it's all a family has to look back on.

[Euroslavia]

It's a better idea than a Hall of Fame, but it still runs into two logistical problems:

1) We can't always know when a CTE'd individual is just CTE or has, well, died. Not everyone has a family member, close friend, or even social media network active on this site.

2) There are cases when people fake a death, unpleasant though that may seem. I have an awful feeling that some people would be tempted to fake their own internet death just to get themselves into the memorial region; and if that seems unlikely, I can only note that this is the internet.

I'm not rejecting the idea entirely out of hand, but I'd like to see some ideas on how we could get around those logistical barriers.

I sheepishly confess to listening to rumors a few years back, and spending a few solid weeks sobbing my eyes out because I was convinced that a beloved online friend had passed. Imagine my shock (and explosive joy) when the "dearly departed" returned to NS two years later. That'll larn me.

It would be nice if there was a way to preserve nation's name, thereby keeping it eternal (including their factbooks, etc). In the case of autism or other disorders, NationStates plays a large part of a kid's life; they learn to interact better, to improve their reading/writing, etc. It would be a kindly gesture to memorialize a loved one for the sake of their family. I'd expect the family would need to provide a certificate of death to qualify. Would I go so far as to push for a memorial thread or region? No. It opens the door for trolls. However, keeping that nation alive is a way of keeping that person's creative work alive. Often, it's all a family has to look back on.

As a player, I can completely understand where you're coming from, especially in this case (To a lot of us, Dyakovo's personality on this forum is all we knew of him). Unfortunately, my knowledge of anything technical = zero, so I can't offer any opinion on how feasible that is (though NERVUN did point out that it was addressed by [violet] previously).