[Discussion] "NS Summer" and other assorted silly trivia

[The Batorys]

NS summer, to me, specifically means a bizarre influx of neo-nazis with bad grammar.

You're not one just because joined in the summer.

But if you ARE a neo-nazi with incoherent posts, your presence may be attributed to the annual phenomenon.

[Phocidaea]

To my understanding, Reppy's description of NS summer users as pretty much all being Nazi trolls is off. Behavior-wise, it's more like (serious or trolling, no one knows) extremists of all stripes, but especially right-wing. On the minority leftist contingent of Summer users, there are communist folks, modern Tumblr-flavored social justice warriors, and so on, while on the right-wing side there are plenty of Nazis, but also those who profess ideologies more like mainstream Fox-anchor firebrands, anarcho-capitalists, etc. Simplifying all of these ideologies to "Nazis" is simply factually incorrect.

The only reason it may seem that way is because all the other example ideologies I gave have at least a few serious, non-Summer users, while Nazi users are almost universally Summer trolls. But just because some ideologies have non-Summer non-troll users backing them doesn't mean that there aren't also Summer trolls who do the same.

[The Corparation]

NSG just happens to have the problem of debating anything even if its a clear troll. It only shows badly when summer hits and we have nothing else to debate except a FST-style "SEX IS BAD IF YOU DO IT FOR FUN!" thing or Karinizstan's religious bullshit. At least it's better to look at compared to the garish spam we get from these guys.

Aside from that, NSG is probably more judgmental to people that annoy them faster than any mod could be annoyed.

You don't remember FST's style all that well. It wasn't SEX IS BAD IF YOU DO IT FOR FUN , it was ALL SEX IS RAPE AND NO ONE SHOULD HAVE SEX. (This followed his previous nation's, "SEX IS ICKY AND NO ONE SHOULD HAVE IT" view) Also the bit about wanting to marry someone and then slip chemical castration drugs into their coffee. Ahh good times. He was a great source of laughs. Also glad to see someone remember Kari-bear's original hilarity as opposed to his post-DEAT spam career.

[Zaolat]

I personally just called it "Cat-and-Mouse".

I have been known to call it other sharp pointed objects privately

That might be against NS rules to say here, Wordy

[The Republic of Lanos]

Also glad to see someone remember Kari-bear's original hilarity as opposed to his post-DEAT spam career.

He managed to report to moderation about Kare Bear and got that banned while he kept on trolling. That and his original reign managed to score some DEATs on pissed off users. TET was a clusterfuck during his reign when he wasn't banned/trolling. Even when his threads hit F7, it was still the usual banter of troll shit. By the time of his DoS and escalation into garish spam, NSG was quite done with him and exalted in joy when it was legal to call him Kare Bear again. Plus the bullshit over not calling him by his full name. That was a troll move. By his first DEAT, he should have been permabanned imo. Oh well. NSG has yet to identify a summertime troll to pop up and spew his/her bullshit and get super annoyed for the span of a month or so. That's probably one reason why I don't hit NSG anymore.

You don't remember FST's style all that well.

That's probably because I don't want to remember all that well. I'm perplexed why UT (Unhealthy Truthseekers) had to go that route.

Also, when can we expect a ruling on the use of summertime as trollnaming?

[The Risen Jaguar Warriors]

I've seen this word in Moderation reports a few times: Copypasta.

1) Is it in any way derived from "Creepypasta"?
2) What is its exact meaning/s
3) Why don't I see it (so often) anymore?

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

I've seen this word in Moderation reports a few times: Copypasta.

1) Is it in any way derived from "Creepypasta"?
2) What is its exact meaning/s
3) Why don't I see it (so often) anymore?

You've got it turned around - second came after first, iirc.
Means copied and pasted wholesale from elsewhere, with no input from poster. We frown on it.
We try to discourage it, hence ... why you may not see it so often.

[The Risen Jaguar Warriors]

I've seen this word in Moderation reports a few times: Copypasta.

1) Is it in any way derived from "Creepypasta"?
2) What is its exact meaning/s
3) Why don't I see it (so often) anymore?

You've got it turned around - second came after first, iirc.
Means copied and pasted wholesale from elsewhere, with no input from poster. We frown on it.
We try to discourage it, hence ... why you may not see it so often.

Sorry to go off-topic, but what does "iirc" mean?

[The Corparation]

You've got it turned around - second came after first, iirc.
Means copied and pasted wholesale from elsewhere, with no input from poster. We frown on it.
We try to discourage it, hence ... why you may not see it so often.

Sorry to go off-topic, but what does "iirc" mean?

If I recall correctly, iirc.

[Vazdania]

There is a lot of informal NS slang that people use on here that if used elsewhere would make absolutely no sense what so ever! XD

[Shadow Afforess]

I would like to point out "NS Summer" is not exactly a new concept, with the original phrase being "Eternal September". The idea has been around since 1993.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September

[The Risen Jaguar Warriors]

I've clicked on a few users and noticed that a few of them are "sig-blocked". I also searched up sig-blocked users and the subtitle said that "sig-blocked" was an "open" group and that anyone could apply to join.

What is "sig-blocking"?
How does one get "sig-blocked"?
Why is "sig-blocked' a special group?

[Frisbeeteria]

By his first DEAT, he should have been permabanned imo.

As to the first DEAT question, we here in NS Moderation are firm believers in the possibility of redemption, or at least "learning not to be a jackass". That's why we generally give three or more strikes unless they meet one of our qualifications for insta-ban (mostly adbots and porn spammers).

A sufficiently motivated idiot can sometimes sneak around our permaban tools. For instance, there's not a lot we can do about a guy who is willing to visit multiple different Internet Cafes and/or public libraries for the sole purpose of spamming this site. Suffice to say, the DOS in question was quite the motivated idiot. We permabanned a lot of his attempts.

TET was a clusterfuck during his reign

There was a time when TET wasn't a clusterfuck?

What is "sig-blocking"?
How does one get "sig-blocked"?
Why is "sig-blocked' a special group?

People who abuse the Forum Sig rules frequently are denied the ability to edit their own sigs (which are usually blanked). There's a special group for that, which you can probably figure out on your own.

[The Batorys]

There is a lot of informal NS slang that people use on here that if used elsewhere would make absolutely no sense what so ever! XD

IIRC and copypasta are used in a wide variety of online communities, actually.

[The Republic of Lanos]

TET was a clusterfuck during his reign

There was a time when TET wasn't a clusterfuck?

Touche.

Though in the summer of 2012, things weren't as bad with Karinizstan banned.

[The Corparation]

[

TET was a clusterfuck during his reign

There was a time when TET wasn't a clusterfuck?

Yes, back when it was called "WHYLT"

[Todlichebujoku]

There was a time when TET wasn't a clusterfuck?

Touche.

Though in the summer of 2012, things weren't as bad with Karinizstan banned.

I happened to join the forums when he was rampaging about. One of my first ten posts was a reply to one of his threads, actually.

What a welcome to NSG.

[Forsher]

I have now raised this internally with the rest of the team.

I won't promise a specific course of action in advance, but we are looking closely at the issue.

I'd like to note for the record that I really do think that going ahead and adding euphemisms like 'Mr. Summertime Noposts' or 'Ah, summertime' to the existing rules won't help anyone. Given that it can take several hours for moderation to lock and/or review threads for evidence of trolling when reported in Moderation, escalation can become an issue in 'summertime' threads, leading to a lot more work for the mods when they do slog through the thread and a lot more warnings for the people who get baited into a heated argument with the day-old poster with a default flag and unpleasant views about immigrants.

Considering that said mods often complain (rightly so) about people 'feeding the troll' or about having to slog through said 30-page argument about how Hitler was actually on to something, perhaps it'd be better if posters - particularly considering that many posters here have been here long enough to recognize 'summertime' visitors - weren't completely barred from trying to point out to others that the poster with a default flag ranting about Obama might not be arguing in good faith.

More likely outcome? Thread goes sideways while the supposed troll questions what's happening. Don't believe me? Refer to my example from earlier.

Trolls want attention. They don't want to be treated as though they're honest posters (i.e. receive measured, thoughtful and substantiated rebuttal/commentary) and they don't want to be ignored. Calling them trolls or denizens of summer simply gives them what they want, sends the thread off track and accomplishes nothing productive (in fact, I contend such posts crowd out the sort we want).

There is a lot of informal NS slang that people use on here that if used elsewhere would make absolutely no sense what so ever! XD

IIRC and copypasta are used in a wide variety of online communities, actually.

NSG, F7, NS Summer and the acronyms/short forms of various posters (such as FST, TCT, ASB, Neo, Kare Bear etc.) are probably the only terms that NSG specifically has that aren't common to other online forums. Raiding/Defending and other gameside terms are a different matter of course... they are quite likely to be misunderstood in NSG as well.

[Torisakia]

Also glad to see someone remember Kari-bear's original hilarity as opposed to his post-DEAT spam career.

The kid who demanded we call him by his full nation name instead of shortening it? I always got a kick out of calling him Kari-bear.

I still believe that he's the summer gorespammer.

[Fascist Russian Empire]

The kid who demanded we call him by his full nation name instead of shortening it? I always got a kick out of calling him Kari-bear.

I still believe that he's the summer gorespammer.

If I ain't mistaken, didn't he constantly spam about some ridiculous revolution against Max Barry and constantly complain about the mods?

[The Batorys]

I'd like to note for the record that I really do think that going ahead and adding euphemisms like 'Mr. Summertime Noposts' or 'Ah, summertime' to the existing rules won't help anyone. Given that it can take several hours for moderation to lock and/or review threads for evidence of trolling when reported in Moderation, escalation can become an issue in 'summertime' threads, leading to a lot more work for the mods when they do slog through the thread and a lot more warnings for the people who get baited into a heated argument with the day-old poster with a default flag and unpleasant views about immigrants.

Considering that said mods often complain (rightly so) about people 'feeding the troll' or about having to slog through said 30-page argument about how Hitler was actually on to something, perhaps it'd be better if posters - particularly considering that many posters here have been here long enough to recognize 'summertime' visitors - weren't completely barred from trying to point out to others that the poster with a default flag ranting about Obama might not be arguing in good faith.

More likely outcome? Thread goes sideways while the supposed troll questions what's happening. Don't believe me? Refer to my example from earlier.

Trolls want attention. They don't want to be treated as though they're honest posters (i.e. receive measured, thoughtful and substantiated rebuttal/commentary) and they don't want to be ignored. Calling them trolls or denizens of summer simply gives them what they want, sends the thread off track and accomplishes nothing productive (in fact, I contend such posts crowd out the sort we want).

IIRC and copypasta are used in a wide variety of online communities, actually.

NSG, F7, NS Summer and the acronyms/short forms of various posters (such as FST, TCT, ASB, Neo, Kare Bear etc.) are probably the only terms that NSG specifically has that aren't common to other online forums. Raiding/Defending and other gameside terms are a different matter of course... they are quite likely to be misunderstood in NSG as well.

DEAT is one I've not heard outside of the NS forum.

However, I disagree regarding the nature of trolls.

Trolls want to rile people up.

They want to fool people into thinking they're serious.

They want people who are thus fooled to then put effort into replying to them, when they've put almost no actual effort into their own posts.

No matter how well crafted such replies are, they will simply continue posting trollishly, because trolls aren't here to debate. They're just here to fuck the place up and make trouble. They're not going to change their "opinions" if you bring up brilliant debate points, because they don't actually care. They're just here to mess with you. The fact that you're expending effort, and they're not, is what makes it amusing for them.

You see, "measured, thoughtful and substantiated rebuttal/commentary" is EXACTLY what trolls want. Because that kind of post takes time, time in which you are paying attention to THEM, whereas a troll post takes almost no effort on their part.

If people figure out that they're trolls, and start treating them as such, the game isn't as fun for them. The ultimate in trolling is seeing how much time you can get people to spend on something stupid you said. If people figure out that you're a troll, they won't make such long replies, because they will rightly see it as the complete waste of time that it is. Trolls are just going to keep trolling, so why try to debate them when you can just laugh at them and engage with actual, serious posters?

This is why I'm against the troll naming rule, and always have been. One of the consequences of it is that NSG now coddles trolls, because oftentimes trolls are good at skirting the limits of the rules, and refraining from the most blatantly disallowed wording, while still posting things that are offensive/stupid enough to get people going. Even if it becomes apparent that someone is just a troll account, often that someone has been careful enough in their trolling that there's no single, identifiable instance where they're breaking the rules.

[Torisakia]

The kid who demanded we call him by his full nation name instead of shortening it? I always got a kick out of calling him Kari-bear.

I still believe that he's the summer gorespammer.

If I ain't mistaken, didn't he constantly spam about some ridiculous revolution against Max Barry and constantly complain about the mods?

I'm not sure about the Max Barry revolution thing, but he did complain to the mods quite a lot. Most of it being "Then they pushded me down and callded me bad names!"

[Avenio]

More likely outcome? Thttp://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopi ... 98742hread goes sideways while the supposed troll questions what's happening. Don't believe me? Refer to my example from earlier.

I can't speak for the mods, of course, but I'd much rather a thread go completely off the rails and no-one gets caught up in flaming or baiting or what have you than have an ugly thread continue on undisturbed and twice as many people get caught in the troll's crossfire.

Trolls want attention. They don't want to be treated as though they're honest posters (i.e. receive measured, thoughtful and substantiated rebuttal/commentary) and they don't want to be ignored. Calling them trolls or denizens of summer simply gives them what they want, sends the thread off track and accomplishes nothing productive (in fact, I contend such posts crowd out the sort we want).

What trolls want is to make people react; that's what trolling is. You can see this pattern all the time; they create an inflammatory thread or post in the hopes of dragging people into a heated argument with them and thereby getting them into trouble. If noone takes the troll seriously and posters can remind each other of the existence of the troll throughout the thread, keeping other people who stumble on them from taking the bait, the troll gets nothing out of it.

EDIT: Not to mention that the existence of the trollnaming rule itself provides an avenue for trolls to operate in. Post a sufficiently ridiculous or offensive viewpoint that you can bait people into calling you a troll, and you have a way of getting the mods to ding the people debating you.

[Toronina]

Hey guys, who was the first mod?

[Grenartia]

[

There was a time when TET wasn't a clusterfuck?

Yes, back when it was called "WHYLT"

And the first few months after TET first started.