[discussion] pronoun silliness

[Nusaresa]

I think it is best to settle for the singular third person pronouns sans 'it' as that particular pronoun does carry a certain sense of dehumanization and objectification of the individual.

Interesting read. I'll sum up my thoughts simply - for a change.

Be who and what you want out there, believe and support anything you like - just don't be a dick when posting. Simple as.

It isn't about the expression of transgender individuals. Rather it's abiding by the correct pronoun those who are transgender use.

The usage of a singular 'they' or 'them' appears to be the most neutral choice of pronoun so as not to instigate any drama on the matter.

[Linux and the X]

Question - would the rules be any different for deliberately misgenderkng a well-known transgender figure who almost certainly isn't a member of the site and thus can't be flamed? Someone like Caitlyn Jenner or Chelsea Manning? And would this also apply to calling them by their previous name (Bruce or Bradley)? Obviously the latter isn't an issue for site members since revealing their full name is doxing and probably instant DOS whether they're trans or not.

In The Beginning Max made the...

Er, sorry.

At the start of the rule, it was originally written to include people off forum, but that did make the rule too restrictive as well as it was pointed out that protection of the rules usually do not apply to anyone not on the forum (Meaning I can call Prime Minister Abe a baka if I so wish being fairly confident that he isn't playing NS, he's too busy crawling through green pipes). So, the simple answer to your question is no, the misgendering rule does not apply to anyone offsite, it ONLY applies to NS players.

Does the same apply to nicknaming? Can I call the Republican presidential candidate Tiny-Fingered Cheeto Benito?

[Yumyumsuppertime]

In The Beginning Max made the...

Er, sorry.

At the start of the rule, it was originally written to include people off forum, but that did make the rule too restrictive as well as it was pointed out that protection of the rules usually do not apply to anyone not on the forum (Meaning I can call Prime Minister Abe a baka if I so wish being fairly confident that he isn't playing NS, he's too busy crawling through green pipes). So, the simple answer to your question is no, the misgendering rule does not apply to anyone offsite, it ONLY applies to NS players.

Does the same apply to nicknaming? Can I call the Republican presidential candidate Tiny-Fingered Cheeto Benito?

As we have a specific rule calling out and forbidding political nicknaming, I find it difficult to believe that this post was made in good faith.

[Linux and the X]

Does the same apply to nicknaming? Can I call the Republican presidential candidate Tiny-Fingered Cheeto Benito?

As we have a specific rule calling out and forbidding political nicknaming, I find it difficult to believe that this post was made in good faith.

Why is it acceptable to misgender non-users but not to use nicknames for them, though?

[NERVUN]

As we have a specific rule calling out and forbidding political nicknaming, I find it difficult to believe that this post was made in good faith.

Why is it acceptable to misgender non-users but not to use nicknames for them, though?

Really?

If we ever get to a transgendered political candidate or serving politician, then it would apply. Until then, we're talking about someone who is not present on the forum and who does not have a following of people to whom such nicknames are a form of baiting and trolling that add nothing to the debate and cannot be debated.

And before you go there, let me state clearly that no, it's not trolling transgendered people under site rules. If we went that route we might as well shut down NSG because then questioning anything that has members of said group on the forum would be baiting and/or trolling.

[Linux and the X]

Why is it acceptable to misgender non-users but not to use nicknames for them, though?

Really?

If we ever get to a transgendered political candidate or serving politician, then it would apply. Until then, we're talking about someone who is not present on the forum and who does not have a following of people to whom such nicknames are a form of baiting and trolling that add nothing to the debate and cannot be debated.

And before you go there, let me state clearly that no, it's not trolling transgendered people under site rules. If we went that route we might as well shut down NSG because then questioning anything that has members of said group on the forum would be baiting and/or trolling.

Just to make sure I understand: no mocking (with nicknames or misgendering) of other posters or politicians, but other famous people are fair game? If so, when (if ever) do politicians return to being fair game? Can I mock Bush Jr, since he's retired from politics? Thatcher, since she's dead? Neville Chamberlain, since his supporters are (probably) dead? Is Amonhotep still protected?

[USS Monitor]

Really?

If we ever get to a transgendered political candidate or serving politician, then it would apply. Until then, we're talking about someone who is not present on the forum and who does not have a following of people to whom such nicknames are a form of baiting and trolling that add nothing to the debate and cannot be debated.

And before you go there, let me state clearly that no, it's not trolling transgendered people under site rules. If we went that route we might as well shut down NSG because then questioning anything that has members of said group on the forum would be baiting and/or trolling.

Just to make sure I understand: no mocking (with nicknames or misgendering) of other posters or politicians, but other famous people are fair game? If so, when (if ever) do politicians return to being fair game? Can I mock Bush Jr, since he's retired from politics? Thatcher, since she's dead? Neville Chamberlain, since his supporters are (probably) dead? Is Amonhotep still protected?

The point is to protect a politician's followers, not the politician themselves. It doesn't matter if the politician is still active, or even if they are still alive.

We might be a little more lenient with out-of-date names like Chamberlain or Amonhotep, since they are less likely to have a lot of passionate supporters on NS, but that doesn't mean it's impossible to get smacked.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

I think it is best to settle for the singular third person pronouns sans 'it' as that particular pronoun does carry a certain sense of dehumanization and objectification of the individual.

Interesting read. I'll sum up my thoughts simply - for a change.

Be who and what you want out there, believe and support anything you like - just don't be a dick when posting. Simple as.

It isn't about the expression of transgender individuals. Rather it's abiding by the correct pronoun those who are transgender use.

The usage of a singular 'they' or 'them' appears to be the most neutral choice of pronoun so as not to instigate any drama on the matter.

Oddly enough, I wasn't referring to transgender individuals. I was referring to everyone else. Let me clarify further, since it seems it's needed:

"You don't have to agree with it, or approve of it. That's ok - it doesn't require your approval to be a thing. You can believe as you like, take whatever stand you prefer on the matter - that is your choice. But it is not a valid choice here, on these forums at least, to denigrate others, to deliberately abuse the rule or system in place to take a dig at transgender (or frankly, any other group or person), and expect to 'get away with it'."

Also known as "Don't be a dick," as I stated previously.

[Linux and the X]

The point is to protect a politician's followers, not the politician themselves. It doesn't matter if the politician is still active, or even if they are still alive.

But non-politician celebrities also have followers. Why are Trump fans (or Clinton fans) protected, but (say) Beyoncé fans aren't? And what about celebrities who are also political figures?

[NERVUN]

The point is to protect a politician's followers, not the politician themselves. It doesn't matter if the politician is still active, or even if they are still alive.

But non-politician celebrities also have followers. Why are Trump fans (or Clinton fans) protected, but (say) Beyoncé fans aren't? And what about celebrities who are also political figures?

You see the political nicknames thread down there? Go ask there. This derailment is ended.

[Katganistan]

I believe we have answered your questions as fully as they require: no political nicknaming; refer to transgender players here either by their preferred pronoun or by the commonly accepted and neutral 'they'.

Any further questioning about "but why doesn't it apply to all these other unrelated categories?" will be treated as bad faith posts and removed to the evidence locker.