The Miniluv Messenger: TEP Liberated!

[Pierconium]

That's a bit of a b/s line if you didn't even try.

Yep, actually most delegates of GCR's are pretty prompt with telegrams (if not those involved with the conference). If those involved with writing the article had telegrammed any of them that participated in the conference they would have eventually have got an answer.

Indeed. A telegram to me would have received a quick response. It isn't a difficult concept.

[Pauline Bonaparte]

I believe strongly in moderation, and in fact I think that anyone who doesn't believe in moderation should be castrated.

This issue was going to come to a head at some point and at the very least it is good to see a discussion between the Right Honorable GCRs happening.

[McMasterdonia]

<snip>

Again not offering any concrete examples of ways you have tried internal recruitment. Surprise, surprise. Believe it or not Funkadelia, it isn't that hard to analyze how much a region does in its internal recruitment. It has also been widely discussed since the recruitment issues recently came up. But yes, keep calling me ignorant if it makes you feel better xD. If there was a robust scheme of internal recruitment underway I have no doubt that you would be more than happy to discuss it. The simple fact that you have continued to deflect and only respond by calling me ignorant indicates that no such scheme is likely to be in place.

Lazarus and The North Pacific are obviously not the same region, but I am sure it would not hurt to try out some of the techniques that have been proven to work, and to adapt them as necessary. That's all I was saying. Externally recruiting is not the only solution to the problem. I just came here to comment on the article, give my opinion and offer some suggestions. I am 100% against GCR recruitment, not a surprise, and I am especially against it if it is not equally open to all game created regions.

I am surprised that you decided to act in an insulting manner for no apparent reason. Also if one lonely individual such as myself expressing an opinion is enough to undermine an entire conference debate on the subject of recruitment, then that doesn't say much at all for the conference itself then now, does it?

[Funkadelia]

I literally just told you that I can't prove a negative. How do I prove to you that there was not much of a yield to our efforts? I am not in charge of recruitment, nor have I ever claimed to be. We ran campaigns while Kazmr was delegate in 2014 and in 2015, and the same while I was the delegate in 2014 and 2015. I can't speak to what's being done right now because it's not something that I deal with. I don't keep records readily available for someone hurl insults and aspersions at the region. Perhaps I should, considering your combative and conceited attitude.

However, I will go try to find "concrete examples" of something that is impossible to have "concrete examples" of. Just for you.

I'm calling you ignorant because you are literally being ignorant about the differences between TNP and Lazarus. You continue to reference TNP policy and the game structure surrounding the region and acting as if it is the same in Lazarus.

Who said you derailed the conference? You have virtually no influence, so I really doubt all the complaining about my region you could do in the world would have much effect at all, no matter what we are doing.

[Circle of Magi]

Good Evening, my apologies for not responding to your query; I've not been as active on IRC lately since [my UCR] has generally shifted to a more secure medium for communication.

The East Pacific can confirm that a conference is ongoing in relation to a discussion on Cross-GCR Recruiting Standards. I can also confirm that the conference does not exist to cast blame or take action regarding Lazarene recruitment from The Pacific given that situation is related to an on-going issue between two sovereign governments and is a result of previous events between the two regions.

The inclusion of The Pacific in the conference is based around the fact that they are a Feeder, and because of that, the necessity for them to have a place at the table to discuss and negotiate on this matter and any discussions arising from it. The conference is not here to arbitrate on disagreements between two sovereign regions, and both Lazarus and The Pacific have conducted themselves accordingly while attending The East Pacific. The conference does not exist to exact punitive measures against Lazarus for its recruitment campaign. Lazarus was asked to explain why they did not notify the Feeders in advance, and the Feeders addressed their response.

This conference is tasked with discussing and examining potential changes to the existing policy regarding recruitment, and was called in response to notification from Lazarus that they had begun a recruitment script on the Feeders early last week. After an initial discussion between the Feeders and Lazarus (as facilitated by Foreign Minister Myroria of The North Pacific), Lazarus joined the conference which was then first opened up to Balder and Osiris, followed by The Rejected Realms to bring the conference as it exists now into being.

Ideally, this conference will result in a consensus of ideas, it is also very possible that it isn't achievable right now.

---

I feel I must also comment on the admittance of Feux to The East Pacific. The Citizenship Commission found no legal means to deny him citizenship under our laws. He has also not committed any crimes against The East Pacific.

---

I did not make the decision on re-opening communication between The Pacific and The East Pacific, however without communication, there is no potential for change or innovation. No two people can shake hands if one has a clenched fist and thus The East Pacific feels it necessary to avoid a policy of enforced isolation. The opportunity given by a new Head of State for The Pacific is unlike any in recent years, if change is to be encouraged and innovation promoted, this opportunity should be utilised to the fullest extent possible by involved parties. Similarly, the same is true for The West Pacific.

Regards,

Circle of Magi
Minister of Foreign Affairs, The East Pacific

[New Rogernomics]

ways you have tried internal recruitment

Eh? Think we have done all the below:
• Maintained a relatively active forum and regional government, despite our difficulties.
• Kept up on endorsements, and send out telegrams to the nations in the region.
• Set up a welcome telegram*, written and pinned dispatches
• Helped keep the RMB active, including posting polls.
• Written up our WFE so people know where to go.

Really the next steps are:
• Monthly telegram updates, perhaps discussing positions and activities.
• Sending personal telegrams to nations, encouraging them to get on the forum.
• Posting the Lazarene Gazette in dispatches.
• Improving on our forum, and adding more activities.
• Getting ready for a possible forum slow-down due to the December holidays.

*I know its working, as I have got a telegram recently thanking me for the welcome.

[Solorni]

Out of curiosity is the latest Lazarus regime part of the FRA still? I recall a lot of FRA regions having activity issues.

[Belschaft]

Out of curiosity is the latest Lazarus regime part of the FRA still? I recall a lot of FRA regions having activity issues.

Lazarus remains part of the FRA, but it was made clear that this was conditional on genuine and effective reform.

[Glen-Rhodes]

This has always been a dumb thing to get angry about. GCRs exist in part for regions to recruit players from. Who cares if Lazarus is recruiting from TSP? How does this harm anyone?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

edit now that I'm on PC:

It's unlikely that Lazarus' recruitment efforts are going to have that much of an impact on any other region, or even their own. Feeders are guaranteed a new influx of players on a regular basis, providing ample opportunity to recruit those players to our own forums. We do not own these players. They cannot be "poached" from us. Sinkers have every right to grow their communities, too. Feeders have no ground to deny Lazarus that right, and the only real regions to recruit from in NS are other Game-Created Regions. This is a no-brainer.

It's remarkable that a diplomatic conference has been created for this, and presumably some kind of treaty will be written there. Why do we need a treaty? Either that treaty will say GCRs can't recruit from each other, or it will create an asymmetric power balance favoring either Feeders or Sinkers. (Probably Sinkers, judging by this thread.) Of course, it's a pan-GCR treaty, so at some point it will be violated. Then we're gonna find ourselves in a manufactured pan-GCR diplomatic crisis, one that pits Sinkers against Feeders... over recruitment? Just because some in Feeders feel they have rights to the players who are automatically plopped in there? Come on.

[Todd McCloud]

Since the early days of NS, there's been a sort of "gentleman's agreement" between the GCRs with respect to recruiting from one another. That's pretty much remained to this day, hence the uproar from individuals from these regions.

[Glen-Rhodes]

Since the early days of NS, there's been a sort of "gentleman's agreement" between the GCRs with respect to recruiting from one another. That's pretty much remained to this day, hence the uproar from individuals from these regions.

That agreement makes no sense and reeks of paternalistic entitlement. No GCR has any claim over any players, so to get mad that any region is recruiting those players is dumb. It's not like any of our regions are hurt by recruitment. There's enough pie to go around.

[Zaolat]

I'm going to have to agree with Glen. In any event the sinkers have less of an advantage with recruitment than the feeders do. No recruiting from feeders makes sense if it's a pact only between feeders.

[Magickas]

As an outsider to this debate, it seems to me that if all the game created regions all recruited from each others, then they would simply cancel each others out, hence why simply not recruiting externally is saving everyone some time.

[Lord Ravenclaw]

I am personally happy to let Sinkers recruit. Their pool of nations is smaller, and while it constantly refills, most don't do very much beyond logging in once or twice (I'm told that I was an exception as "The Imperial Crown". If a nation leaves because of a recruitment telegram, then said nation would have left anyway and it's unlikely they'd be convinced to stay or return.

I don't see the benefits to Feeders recruiting, as our pool is much larger.

[Glen-Rhodes]

I don't see the benefits to Feeders recruiting, as our pool is much larger.

We shouldn't want to waste time recruiting from regions whose entire purpose is to house the inactive.

I would just caution a pan-GCR treaty. I think it's bound to be violated at some point. The real terms of that violation are going to be minuscule, but the impact it will have on Gameplay politics down the road will be big. Somebody will take a small nuisance and use it as a bludgeon, like has happened so many times before.

[Lord Ravenclaw]

I do fear that you're right on that count.

[Zemnaya Svoboda]

"From TNP's case" is a ludicrous way to begin a sentence related to this topic -- you get more nations than any other Feeder, way more than the Sinkers, and yours are new rather than returning players.

Far be it from me to wade in to the political aspects of this, but your comment contains a factual inaccuracy that while some would call minor, I find quite important.

There was a lengthy inquiry on why The North Pacific was larger, and the supremely clear verdict was because more nations have stayed there, not because more are created there.

The population advantage The North Pacific has over the other feeders is not from geographical determinism (a bias in the game), but contingent history.

This comment is not an endorsement of either position on whether or not it would be appropriate for Lazarus or any other Sinker region to seek to recruit newly-founded nations (from the Feeders).

[Cormac Stark]

Far be it from me to wade in to the political aspects of this, but your comment contains a factual inaccuracy that while some would call minor, I find quite important.

There was a lengthy inquiry on why The North Pacific was larger, and the supremely clear verdict was because more nations have stayed there, not because more are created there.

The population advantage The North Pacific has over the other feeders is not from geographical determinism (a bias in the game), but contingent history.

This comment is not an endorsement of either position on whether or not it would be appropriate for Lazarus or any other Sinker region to seek to recruit newly-founded nations (from the Feeders).

Thank you for the correction. My basic point, though, was more that McM has no idea what it's like to try to sustain activity in a region that doesn't get huge numbers of newly created nations, and thus no idea what he's talking about. I should have worded that differently, because it's true of all (exclusively) Feederites, not just North Pacificans. Feederites have a huge activity advantage over other regions -- which they'll retain, even with the Sinkers recruiting from them -- and no real idea of what it's like to have to do hard work, daily, for just minimum activity.

On a note unrelated to Eluvatar's comment, I'm curious how many Feeders found nations expendable enough to eject them for a Halloween mini-game over the past 36 hours. I know TWP ejected nations to get on the tally board for most survivors free of infection. Anyone else?

[Pierconium]

The Pacific ejected 17, some consisting of new nations spawned just for the event in order to create hordes. The total population of the nations ejected from The Pacific was about 4.5bil. In reviewing the records it seems that 3 or 4 of the ejections were possibly unrelated to the event.

So we will go with 14 for The Pacific.

A quick glance at the other Feeders looks like:

The South Pacific - 1
The North Pacific - 7
The East Pacific - 8
The West Pacific - lots and lots

The Pacific opted not to eject zombie empires at the 10 hours left mark because our citizens were complaining about a lack of targets. We knew this would mean we would not finish with zero infected but did it for the fun. We ended with only 4mil (one small nation spawning at the last update period) infected in the entire region with very few ejections overall so I think we did alright.

[Punk Daddy]

I think I'm in the old curmudgeon camp on this one. I've been active in a sinker for a spell (Osiris, yay!!) but certainly not long or influential enough to say I understand all aspects of sinkers.

But I will say this, as someone who has recruited for UCRs I'd love to have to deal with the problem of the Sinkers and Feeders from nations entering my region standpoint.

Some regions are better at recruiting to the offsite forum than others (see TNP) and I have to agree with McM here. I also think that it's no accident that TNP is extremely active offsite and has more nations onsite than other feeders. To me it's how well you can recruit and then ultimately how well you create an environment that others want to be a part of. I do think that recruiting from other feeders is bad, and in poor taste. I do not say this as a representative from any of the feeders but say it as my own opinion on the subject.

But honestly, if GCRs are bad at recruiting internally I imagine they'll still be bad at recruiting externally. Still I just dislike the idea of a region which has an inflow of nations created by the game needs to recruit in other regions that also have an inflow of nations created by the game.

[Pierconium]

While not getting too much into the specifics, we in The Pacific have reservations regarding the equity in which this new recruitment model will be utilized and have therefore positioned ourselves accordingly.

That said, I personally don't see how one more automatic Telegram among the 20+ a nation receives upon founding will hurt any of the GCRs.

[Where now]

Thank you for the correction. My basic point, though, was more that McM has no idea what it's like to try to sustain activity in a region that doesn't get huge numbers of newly created nations, and thus no idea what he's talking about. I should have worded that differently, because it's true of all (exclusively) Feederites, not just North Pacificans. Feederites have a huge activity advantage over other regions -- which they'll retain, even with the Sinkers recruiting from them -- and no real idea of what it's like to have to do hard work, daily, for just minimum activity.

Sure, Feederites may have it easier than those in the sinkers. But to say that McM or TNP don't put in huge amounts of effort at engaging nations and generating activity is disingenuous. 500 nations and however many extra WA nations than the next nearest region don't just come from nothing - even in a feeder. McM has indicated in this thread, and in the one Elu linked, quite a few methods that TNP use to engage nations.Those ideas, scripts, and TGs don't come from nowhere. People have put time and effort into them.

Will there always be a higher 'baseline' of activity in feeders than in sinkers? Yes.
Does that mean Feederites can't know how to work hard for nations? No, otherwise all the feeders would be at 6,600 nations.

[Punk Daddy]

While not getting too much into the specifics, we in The Pacific have reservations regarding the equity in which this new recruitment model will be utilized and have therefore positioned ourselves accordingly.

That said, I personally don't see how one more automatic Telegram among the 20+ a nation receives upon founding will hurt any of the GCRs.

I'd exchange hurt with help and make the same argument.

[Pierconium]

While not getting too much into the specifics, we in The Pacific have reservations regarding the equity in which this new recruitment model will be utilized and have therefore positioned ourselves accordingly.

That said, I personally don't see how one more automatic Telegram among the 20+ a nation receives upon founding will hurt any of the GCRs.

I'd exchange hurt with help and make the same argument.

Indeed. I see no practical benefit from any side in this.

[Consular]

The West Pacific - lots and lots

Hehehe

No regrets