The Wartime Gazette - People Mobilize for Victory

[Karpathos]

I remember when people said the same about TP. You can sit in the waiting room with CG,

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Having no idea seems to be a common theme with you. I won't hold that against you.

[Kazmr]

I remember when people said the same about TP. You can sit in the waiting room with CG,

I have no idea what you're talking about.

He's saying that some region's don't need democracy, and the fact that you proposed a coup to try and enforce it only shows how twisted your logic is.

Why does Lazarus need an 'honest and democratic government' when all democracy brought us in the past was years of inactivity with NES et all at the forefront? Where do you get the notion that Lazarus would be better off with a weaker executive when you yourself have said that you think the best days were those of Milograd, which are arguably the most authoritarian we've had?

People used to say that The Pacific should be a democracy, and the NPO removed. 10 years later, most of them are gone, but the NPO is still moving along as secure as ever.

edit: yes, it said plodding Late nights and little sleep can do funny things to your vocabulary

[Solorni]

I think "plodding" is pretty subjective. I'd agree with about.

[District XIV]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

He's saying that some region's don't need democracy, and the fact that you proposed a coup to try and enforce it only shows how twisted your logic is.

Why does Lazarus need an 'honest and democratic government' when all democracy brought us in the past was years of inactivity with NES et all at the forefront? Where do you get the notion that Lazarus would be better off with a weaker executive when you yourself have said that you think the best days were those of Milograd, which are arguably the most authoritarian we've had?

People used to say that The Pacific should be a democracy, and the NPO removed. 10 years later, most of them are gone, but the NPO is still plodding along as secure as ever.

This is the problem with security states - 'regional security' overrides the people's desires, as we can observe in Laz and TP.

[Ikania]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Having no idea seems to be a common theme with you. I won't hold that against you.

Oi!

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Karp is using outdated references again. It's a common theme for some reason or the other

I see. I don't know which side he's on. He did mock me a lot on Lazarene forums.

Unfortunately, I'm the kind of person who enjoys watching sandcastles fall down.

Who doesn't? It's better to see what can be built with the remains.

cough cough germany cough cough

I have no idea what you're talking about.

He's saying that some region's don't need democracy, and the fact that you proposed a coup to try and enforce it only shows how twisted your logic is.

Why does Lazarus need an 'honest and democratic government' when all democracy brought us in the past was years of inactivity with NES et all at the forefront? Where do you get the notion that Lazarus would be better off with a weaker executive when you yourself have said that you think the best days were those of Milograd, which are arguably the most authoritarian we've had?

People used to say that The Pacific should be a democracy, and the NPO removed. 10 years later, most of them are gone, but the NPO is still plodding along as secure as ever.

I liked Milograd because he was reasonable. I didn't like Funk, and I was afraid he would do something bad with all that power, which he did when Llamas and I were going to separate powers a bit more to prevent the tyranny that is oh-so-common in modern and ancient dictatorships.

Coups aren't always non-democratic. Operation Valkyrie, for example. English Civil War, though in that case the Roundheads were just as evil as the Cavaliers

[Tim-Opolis]

Just pointing out that its part of the fun we in the region have with each other. We enjoy it, our friends enjoy it, no need to kick over our sandcastle because you refuse to have fun

Unfortunately, I'm the kind of person who enjoys watching sandcastles fall down.

Edit: Especially oppressive, undemocratic sandcastles with annoying rhetoric.

Is that why you decided to fall asleep in N.E, so you could spend more time on that sandcastle?


Now that I'm done reminding Consular about that one incident he hopes everyone will forget so he can go back to claiming he's a flawless pointman... Regardless of what everyone might think of the situation, and I personally do think the forum move was definitely shady, this is a well written piece, Kazmr. Hopefully we'll see you sticking around with us, as I'm excited to read more of what you have. Don't listen to the hot steam of the Imperialist rhetoric, as it's childish at best. The People's Republic will carry on, and it will prosper. Lazarus isn't the first region to have issues like this, and it won't be the first region to get past them and emerge just as strong. I think that the symbolism of the phoenix is especially fitting here, for even when Lazarus may seem to wilt, it will soon come back in a corona of glory. It's certainly a shame to lose the many Lazarenes that have left, yes, but to imply that the region is going to collapse due to this is to be blind of all the other times this has happened in other regions without any longterm effects such as the one that the Imperialists and their various yes-men wish to pretend will happen.

Also, simply on the topic of Democracy, did people miss that Funkadelia introduced legislation to make Constitution changes now being put directly into the hands of the People's Congress? Yet, this must obviously be a ploy by the evil Dictator, right?

Why does Lazarus need an 'honest and democratic government' when all democracy brought us in the past was years of inactivity with NES et all at the forefront? Where do you get the notion that Lazarus would be better off with a weaker executive when you yourself have said that you think the best days were those of Milograd, which are arguably the most authoritarian we've had?

Because how are the Imperialists supposed to violate the sovereignty of Lazarus, if you don't give them the right to do so? Open your eyes, Kazmr! They simply wish for equal rights to stick their meddling fingers into yet another region, as apparently they don't have enough yet. Why can't you understand this is a noble cause?!

[Ikania]

Also, simply on the topic of Democracy, did people miss that Funkadelia introduced legislation to make Constitution changes now being put directly into the hands of the People's Congress? Yet, this must obviously be a ploy by the evil Dictator, right?

But he also abused his power by replacing the Vice Chairman for questioning his power and purging the forum host for making a comment in favor of Imperialism. Simply on the topic of Democracy, of course.

[Kazmr]

which he did when Llamas and I were going to separate powers a bit more to prevent the tyranny that is oh-so-common in modern and ancient dictatorships.

Yes, you two were bilaterally going to change the region, by force if petition failed. Sounds quite democratic to me

though in that case the Roundheads were just as evil as the Cavaliers

Really helping your case there...

[Solorni]

I must have missed that in-between the purges of people with differing viewpoints and the description of people who don't hold the same ideology as not being true Lazarenes. I'm sure in between the paranoia and fear about the government and the lack of diversity due to purges that this will be very democratic.

[Karpathos]

I must have missed that in-between the purges of people with differing viewpoints and the description of people who don't hold the same ideology as not being true Lazarenes. I'm sure in between the paranoia and fear about the government and the lack of diversity due to purges that this will be very democratic.

Your opinion matters why? You have your own dictatorship to run, spam threads don't post themselves.

[District XIV]

I must have missed that in-between the purges of people with differing viewpoints and the description of people who don't hold the same ideology as not being true Lazarenes. I'm sure in between the paranoia and fear about the government and the lack of diversity due to purges that this will be very democratic.

Your opinion matters why?

Your snark is necessary why?

[Tim-Opolis]

Also, simply on the topic of Democracy, did people miss that Funkadelia introduced legislation to make Constitution changes now being put directly into the hands of the People's Congress? Yet, this must obviously be a ploy by the evil Dictator, right?

But he also abused his power by replacing the Chairman for questioning his power and purging the forum host for making a comment in favor of Imperialism. Simply on the topic of Democracy, of course.

People are saying Lazarus will continue into an ever more authoritarian spiral. Obviously when I counter it by pointing out that there are democratic reforms happening, ones that close up a pretty big perceived loophole in the Constitution, it is apt to point out events that have already happened. Also, I believe Funkadelia is the Chairman, unless he can replace himself? Assuming you mean Vice-Chairman, is there anything actually preventing him from doing so? If I had a 2nd in Command I didn't agree with, I too would remove them and find someone who I have a better working relationship with. Regarding Admin, as I said before, I believe the situation is murky to no end but all the people claiming that the PRL will collapse from this need to open their eyes and realize that events like this happen quite often in NSGP.

[Funkadelia]

Kaz, you have this really mixed up.

Group of people want democracy. Llamas is leader. Someone leaks this info (glares at Lenny). Funk takes it as a threat to his power and deposes the leader of the group simply because he was going to petition for a more honest and democratic government.

Only AFTER did I propose a coup, which never took place because I realized it wasn't worth it, so I grabbed some popcorn and sat back to watch the PRL crumble.

For someone who acts like they know so much about what's going on in Lazarus, you are so dreadfully, in fact painfully misinformed.

I never "deposed" anyone. I am within full right to appoint and dismiss the Vice Chairman. That is the way the region is designed. When I had first heard of this group, it was described as a shadowy underground group that planned on establishing a coup. Why else would I use such strong language? If I really wanted the three of you gone, I could have easily banned you. If I wanted to suppress free speech due to "political reasons" I would have denied citizenship of everyone who wasn't a defender. Last I checked, there are multiple raider and independent citizens of Lazarus. Drexyl Nox, Evil Wolf, and Alterran Republic are all citizens of Lazarus and are not defender. Apollo, a citizen of Europeia, who's relations with Lazarus have not been exactly stellar, is a People's Congressman here. There are a whole handful of people who support democracy, and that's okay. I believe in upholding the current democratic dictatorship in Lazarus, but people are free to support any ideas that they want to support. That is the beauty of a benevolent dictatorship that has shown itself over the past 10 months. However, it is something that you decided to throw away with all of your naiveté and immature rage. People are welcome to support democracy if they feel like that is what Lazarus should have, and I have never done anything to hinder that ability.

I upheld my removal of Llamas as Vice-Chairman because I felt that having a Vice-Chairman that opposed me in such a deep and divisive manner would not be conducive to having an efficient government that could rule for the people before their own arguments. Obviously, your clan couldn't see through that. I never cast you out of the region. You took it upon yourself to have an epic rage quit and resign your high ranking position and citizenship by moving your nation out of the region. I take no responsibility for your foolish and immature exit from the region due to my apparent "suppression" of your free speech.

[Consular]

Now that I'm done reminding Consular about that one incident he hopes everyone will forget so he can go back to claiming he's a flawless pointman...

How many utter failures have you enjoyed, Tim? I can't actually think of any, probably because you actually do so very little. I'm gonna really have to work at losing those delegacies, if I want to be as useless as you one day.

[Ikania]

I must have missed that in-between the purges of people with differing viewpoints and the description of people who don't hold the same ideology as not being true Lazarenes. I'm sure in between the paranoia and fear about the government and the lack of diversity due to purges that this will be very democratic.

Your opinion matters why?

She's an important person in NS, being the Delegate of a GCR.

which he did when Llamas and I were going to separate powers a bit more to prevent the tyranny that is oh-so-common in modern and ancient dictatorships.

Yes, you two were bilaterally going to change the region, by force if petition failed. Sounds quite democratic to me

though in that case the Roundheads were just as evil as the Cavaliers

Really helping your case there...

By force? No. If the Congress doesn't want it, we have no way of making it happen. Tough shit. But that never happened because Funk instigated a purge.

Kaz, you have this really mixed up.

Group of people want democracy. Llamas is leader. Someone leaks this info (glares at Lenny). Funk takes it as a threat to his power and deposes the leader of the group simply because he was going to petition for a more honest and democratic government.

Only AFTER did I propose a coup, which never took place because I realized it wasn't worth it, so I grabbed some popcorn and sat back to watch the PRL crumble.

For someone who acts like they know so much about what's going on in Lazarus, you are so dreadfully, in fact painfully misinformed.

I never "deposed" anyone. I am within full right to appoint and dismiss the Vice Chairman. That is the way the region is designed. When I had first heard of this group, it was described as a shadowy underground group that planned on establishing a coup. Why else would I use such strong language? If I really wanted the three of you gone, I could have easily banned you. If I wanted to suppress free speech due to "political reasons" I would have denied citizenship of everyone who wasn't a defender. Last I checked, there are multiple raider and independent citizens of Lazarus. Drexyl Nox, Evil Wolf, and Alterran Republic are all citizens of Lazarus and are not defender. Apollo, a citizen of Europeia, who's relations with Lazarus have not been exactly stellar, is a People's Congressman here. There are a whole handful of people who support democracy, and that's okay. I believe in upholding the current democratic dictatorship in Lazarus, but people are free to support any ideas that they want to support. That is the beauty of a benevolent dictatorship that has shown itself over the past 10 months. However, it is something that you decided to throw away with all of your naiveté and immature rage. People are welcome to support democracy if they feel like that is what Lazarus should have, and I have never done anything to hinder that ability.

I upheld my removal of Llamas as Vice-Chairman because I felt that having a Vice-Chairman that opposed me in such a deep and divisive manner would not be conducive to having an efficient government that could rule for the people before their own arguments. Obviously, your clan couldn't see through that. I never cast you out of the region. You took it upon yourself to have an epic rage quit and resign your high ranking position and citizenship by moving your nation out of the region. I take no responsibility for your foolish and immature exit from the region due to my apparent "suppression" of your free speech.

My god, you just don't get it.

You removed him because you thought he was a threat to the region. Our Vice Chairman, who's done SO much for the region, must be removed because a person who you claimed was obviously a spy described him as taking part in a shadowy organization. Nice judgement there. And then, instead of, you know, ASKING about what the hell is going on, you just drop him like Hans Gruber. You then decided to ban Hobbes, or as we like to say for dramatic effect, 'purged', because he said something good about Imperialism which you just couldn't stand. It doesn't matter that non-defenders can stay in the region. The point is that anyone with any kind of authority that doesn't agree with you must be banned.

In your deposition of the Vice Chairman, you also issued a 'warning' to all the members of our peaceful petition posse. That gave me the signal that I needed to get the fuck out. So I called you out on it and you tried to justify it with all these reasons.

I really expected better from you.

EDIT: You also seem to have a double standard as you kept someone who was almost certainly a spy for the purpose of activity, even though he was apparently intent on forumcrashing the forums. Then you depose (don't you just love that word?) the Vice Chairman because he *might* be part of a group that is intent on deposing YOU, even though this information is coming from that same spy.

And the third one I'm assuming is Ainin.

[Karpathos]

Someone should ask Hobbes if he'll allow us to reveal the lead up of events to lead to us needing to move forums.

As for Lenny, you're referring to a VERY old thread which nothing but speculation. Since then he's been afforded full rights and membership to the LLA. So quit harping on that nonsense.

[Ikania]

Someone should ask Hobbes if he'll allow us to reveal the lead up of events to lead to us needing to move forums.

I tried to get an answer out of him but he just said 'nsgp explains all', which led me here.

[Kazmr]

So let me tally this up Ik...

• Its now apparently sacrilegious to dismiss a right hand man who disagrees with your entire style of ruling? An action that you are entirely constitutionally allowed to do? Hm... I can't imagine how any group functions like that.
  
• Dismissing one individual (not banning, mind you), is now tantamount to 'purging' (a word you admit is entirely for dramatic effect) an entire group? Not one of you were banned from the region, rather you chose to leave because you didn't get your way. You voluntarily stepped down from your post and left.
  
• Changing forums because Hobbes was managing them poorly is banning him? News to me.

[McMasterdonia]

In reality, if you cannot work with your second in command, that is just creating an inefficient and a divisive government which will struggle to meet its goals. Obviously the first step should be to attempt to find common ground and try to work through the issues. From what I understand, it looks to me as though Funkadelia had attempted to do this. When negotiations break down or it becomes apparent that you cannot lead the government together in a unified and collaborative way, it is best that you remove your second in command in such a system where this is possible, to allow you to continue to act on the mandate you were given upon your election to the position of Delegate or in the case of Lazarus - the position of Chairman.

In other regions, such as TNP, my home. This would not be possible. But the Vice Delegate does not exactly act as Deputy Delegate in terms of executive government policy, with a completely separate area of responsibility.

Funkadelia was within his legal rights to remove his Vice Chairman. It is clear that the two could not work together and the Chairman could not have a deputy who wanted to undermine his government's policies and initiatives. This is a simple reality. It doesn't matter how awesome the Vice Chairman may be, or how friendly they are.. or whatever else. If you cannot work together, you cannot work together. You do what you must to bring the government back on the course that you were elected to take.

[Kazmr]

Someone should ask Hobbes if he'll allow us to reveal the lead up of events to lead to us needing to move forums.

I tried to get an answer out of him but he just said 'nsgp explains all', which led me here.

So you don't actually know then why we moved forums, you just assumed that it was because Hobbes said something... why? Because it fit your narrative?

[Karpathos]

So let me tally this up Ik...

• Its now apparently sacrilegious to dismiss a right hand man who disagrees with your entire style of ruling? An action that you are entirely constitutionally allowed to do? Hm... I can't imagine how any group functions like that.
  
• Dismissing one individual (not banning, mind you), is now tantamount to 'purging' (a word you admit is entirely for dramatic effect) an entire group? Not one of you were banned from the region, rather you chose to leave because you didn't get your way. You voluntarily stepped down from your post and left.
  
• Changing forums because Hobbes was managing them poorly is banning him? News to me.

There's more but he doesn't want the matter discussed, and he's expressed it in very strong terms.

[Funkadelia]

I'm getting tired of telling Ikania that I dismissed Llamas because having a Vice-Chairman who was so unwilling to unify to create a cohesive executive was not helping the region. I guess you're kind of a lost cause.

Also, I literally laughed at my screen when I ever read that I don't get something that I did myself. You really are a brilliant one.

[Ikania]

So let me tally this up Ik...

• Its now apparently sacrilegious to dismiss a right hand man who disagrees with your entire style of ruling? An action that you are entirely constitutionally allowed to do? Hm... I can't imagine how any group functions like that.
  
• Dismissing one individual (not banning, mind you), is now tantamount to 'purging' (a word you admit is entirely for dramatic effect) an entire group? Not one of you were banned from the region, rather you chose to leave because you didn't get your way. You voluntarily stepped down from your post and left.
  
• Changing forums because Hobbes was managing them poorly is banning him? News to me.

Managing poorly? Are you kidding me? Hobbes poured his soul into that thing. He spent his hard-earned money to provide us a kickass forum and did everything right!

As for the dismissal, I believe it should not be within the Chairman's right to do that. Which is one of the things we were going to change. And it's not like Llamas COMPLETELY DISAGREED with Funk's style of ruling. He just wanted some separation of powers, not only for Funk, but for all future leaders.

I would have been banned anyway, Funk warned all the 'subversives' that he was coming for us.

[Ikania]

I'm getting tired of telling Ikania that I dismissed Llamas because having a Vice-Chairman who was so unwilling to unify to create a cohesive executive was not helping the region. I guess you're kind of a lost cause.

Also, I literally laughed at my screen when I ever read that I don't get something that I did myself. You really are a brilliant one.

There was no mention of unwillingness to do whatever you just said. You got rid of him because he wanted to take away a bit of your power to prevent future tyranny. That's the bottom line.

[Funkadelia]

I'm getting tired of telling Ikania that I dismissed Llamas because having a Vice-Chairman who was so unwilling to unify to create a cohesive executive was not helping the region. I guess you're kind of a lost cause.

Also, I literally laughed at my screen when I ever read that I don't get something that I did myself. You really are a brilliant one.

There was no mention of unwillingness to do whatever you just said. You got rid of him because he wanted to take away a bit of your power to prevent future tyranny. That's the bottom line.

Llamas' impact on a democracy movement would have been no different if he was Vice-Chairman or a citizen. It would probably have been better served as a member of the People's Congress. But of course, he moved his nations out of the region, throwing away his ability to enact change in Lazarus. That was a choice he made, not me. If you were serious about a democratic movement, you all would have stayed in the region and tried to do it, but you didn't because you threw a fit about the dismissal.