The Black Hawks News

[Mahaj]

One style of military gameplay doesn't preclude another. If the effect and importance of those groups is marginalized, it's because they aren't active enough to make their mark on the game, not because raider purists are somehow overshadowing them. Maybe they need work on their propaganda machine.

I think Ballotonia's main point of reference was the fact that simple raider groups manage to draw larger groups simply because there's no application of real politics (which in a game that's essentially political role-play is bizarre IMO) to any form of recruitment, so just by sheer numbers you appear to have a larger impact (also because you have no choice of regions you trash, every region is fair game, regardless of political allegiances, whereas we hand-pick our targets), but having said that, I think we've had enough clashes with UDL for them to recognise us. They may not like to admit it yet.

We know who you are. We just know we can beat you.

[Marxiangrad]

We know who you are. We just know we can beat you.

Sometimes...

[Mahaj]

We know who you are. We just know we can beat you.

Sometimes...

Well we don't stop you in your raids of Nazis, correct.

[Marxiangrad]

Sometimes...

Well we don't stop you in your raids of Nazis, correct.

Eh, yeah you did. Pact of Steel. Twice... Then you went and altered the region entirely so that it was no longer "fascist".

[Crushing Our Enemies]

I think Ballotonia's main point of reference was the fact that simple raider groups manage to draw larger groups simply because there's no application of real politics (which in a game that's essentially political role-play is bizarre IMO) to any form of recruitment, so just by sheer numbers you appear to have a larger impact (also because you have no choice of regions you trash, every region is fair game, regardless of political allegiances, whereas we hand-pick our targets), but having said that, I think we've had enough clashes with UDL for them to recognise us. They may not like to admit it yet.

Emphasis added. The game is what one makes it. The only political role-play I've ever engaged in is answering issues. Raiders with no political agenda attract larger groups because we don't bar membership based on ideology. Capitalists won't join a communist group, and vice versa, but either might join a raider group with no politics.

Edit:Just realized my main point was already stated in your post...whoops.

[Mahaj]

I think Ballotonia's main point of reference was the fact that simple raider groups manage to draw larger groups simply because there's no application of real politics (which in a game that's essentially political role-play is bizarre IMO) to any form of recruitment, so just by sheer numbers you appear to have a larger impact (also because you have no choice of regions you trash, every region is fair game, regardless of political allegiances, whereas we hand-pick our targets), but having said that, I think we've had enough clashes with UDL for them to recognise us. They may not like to admit it yet.

Emphasis added. The game is what one makes it. The only political role-play I've ever engaged in is answering issues. Raiders with no political agenda attract larger groups because we don't bar membership based on ideology. Capitalists won't join a communist group, and vice versa, but either might join a raider group with no politics.

Edit:Just realized my main point was already stated in your post...whoops.

I've noticed that, that half the time we're arguing the same side against each other.

lol

[SunRawr]

Emphasis added. The game is what one makes it. The only political role-play I've ever engaged in is answering issues. Raiders with no political agenda attract larger groups because we don't bar membership based on ideology. Capitalists won't join a communist group, and vice versa, but either might join a raider group with no politics.

Edit:Just realized my main point was already stated in your post...whoops.

I've noticed that, that half the time we're arguing the same side against each other.

lol

Something that will likely never change......

[Mahaj]

I've noticed that, that half the time we're arguing the same side against each other.

lol

Something that will likely never change......

I agree! You're wrong!

[SunRawr]

Something that will likely never change......

I agree! You're wrong!

>=O Liar!

/spam

[Cromarty]

Well we don't stop you in your raids of Nazis, correct.

Eh, yeah you did. Pact of Steel. Twice... Then you went and altered the region entirely so that it was no longer "fascist".

Fascists =/= nazis.

Derp.

[Mallorea and Riva]

A discussion of the UDL policy of fascist/Nation Socialist regions is probably more appropriate in the UDL thread, as opposed to a thread dedicated to our raiding organization.

[SunRawr]

*Plans a raid so the subject stays "The Black Hawks News"*

Actually.. I won't. *calls Jakker to do it*

[Crushing Our Enemies]

A discussion of the UDL policy of fascist/Nation Socialist regions is probably more appropriate in the UDL thread, as opposed to a thread dedicated to our raiding organization.

Man, it is so cool to see you say stuff like that. It's gonna take a few days for me to get used to that.

[Mallorea and Riva]

A discussion of the UDL policy of fascist/Nation Socialist regions is probably more appropriate in the UDL thread, as opposed to a thread dedicated to our raiding organization.

Man, it is so cool to see you say stuff like that. It's gonna take a few days for me to get used to that.

Everyone will be used to it soon enough. Or at the very least they will be aware of it, that I promise you.

[SunRawr]

The Black Hawks are proud to welcome Spartz to the team. We look forward to many future successes with him by our side.

See viewtopic.php?p=8214368#p8214368

[Ballotonia]

One style of military gameplay doesn't preclude another. If the effect and importance of those groups is marginalized, it's because they aren't active enough to make their mark on the game, not because raider purists are somehow overshadowing them. Maybe they need work on their propaganda machine.

I think Ballotonia's main point of reference was the fact that simple raider groups manage to draw larger groups simply because there's no application of real politics (which in a game that's essentially political role-play is bizarre IMO) to any form of recruitment, so just by sheer numbers you appear to have a larger impact (also because you have no choice of regions you trash, every region is fair game, regardless of political allegiances, whereas we hand-pick our targets), but having said that, I think we've had enough clashes with UDL for them to recognise us. They may not like to admit it yet.

Yes, and also that the opposite force, defenders, may have trouble distinguishing and deciding on how to deal (or not) with those who fight for an ideology. I do think UDL and The Red Fleet have met in battle often enough now to have some feeling as to how to avoid any unnecessary conflict between the two. If they so choose. Pact of Steel is indeed a good example, as the WFE there was changed (I was the one who did that) precisely to encourage fewer invasions by The Red Fleet. Time will tell whether that works out or not, it's a bit of an experiment. So far so good, and I'm counting on the regular invaders to now go ahead and invade that region since it was mentioned and thus got any kind of attention.

And Mallorea and Riva, the reason I even bother mentioning stuff like this here is that I hope it will encourage TBH (and other invaders) to actually put some thought into their target selection. IMHO 'it's there' is not a good enough regionreason to engage in an act of war against another region. If there would be a basis (such as ideology) for going to war, and if it is a war fought by both sides then defenders would be engaging in that war itself by intervening in any way. It would be kinda pointless to try and force the two sides to be at peace when neither side would want it. The UDL / The Red Fleet situation is merely used as an example to make that point. UDL doesn't interfere when The Red Fleet helps secure other left-wing regions. Even if that means they're invading them and taking control. And has been pointed out, UDL also doesn't defend Nazi regions. If the UDL Lt. in charge at the time would recognize such a situation, I doubt the UDL would defend if The Red Fleet attacks a right-wing region which has agreed to be at war with them.

In conclusion: one way to (possibly) get rid of Defenders bothering your efforts is to actually have a genuine in-game reason for what you do.

Ballotonia

[Marxiangrad]

Eh, yeah you did. Pact of Steel. Twice... Then you went and altered the region entirely so that it was no longer "fascist".

Fascists =/= nazis.

Derp.

Nazis = Fascists though.

Also PoS, is the historic alliance between Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany. Ergo, we believe it's a "Nazi" (as well as "Fascist") target, so for UDL to intervene, contravenes their supposed "non-protection" of Nazi regions.

[Cromarty]

Fascists =/= nazis.

Derp.

Nazis = Fascists though.

Also PoS, is the historic alliance between Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany. Ergo, we believe it's a "Nazi" (as well as "Fascist") target, so for UDL to intervene, contravenes their supposed "non-protection" of Nazi regions.

What you believe and what the facts are, are two different things.

[Warzone Codger]

"Facts" are what the founder and the original natives of Pact of Steel says.

PoS the region was defined as a Fascist but not Nazi region, according to the founder and the original natives. There were a couple of interesting conversations archived on the RMB. I actually went and browsed through all the posts and made a summary a few weeks ago;

http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=917543

(It did it mainly because the founder of PoS Wamitoria was once a member of Airspace before starting PoS, so I feel an obligation to follow it up).

IMHO, PoS is not intended to be a Nazi region, through Nazis are tolerated to an extent there.

If one truly wishes settle the debate I believe some of the original natives are still playing the game, through since left to other regions. Nazi Flower Power was the intellectual head of PoS back then is now still quite an active Generalite. Alternatively there is Mussoliniopoli who last login 4 days ago. Heck Greater Tezdrian was a PoS native. (There are also a few other but they seem like "rar rar...bombs are kewl! types)

[Nchardahrk]

The Black Hawks are proud to welcome Spartz to the team. We look forward to many future successes with him by our side.

See viewtopic.php?p=8214368#p8214368

What a twist.

[SunRawr]

And Mallorea and Riva, the reason I even bother mentioning stuff like this here is that I hope it will encourage TBH (and other invaders) to actually put some thought into their target selection. IMHO 'it's there' is not a good enough region to engage in an act of war against another region.

Another thing for my aforementioned list.

The Black Hawks are proud to welcome Spartz to the team. We look forward to many future successes with him by our side.

See viewtopic.php?p=8214368#p8214368

What a twist.

Right?

[Crushing Our Enemies]

IMHO 'it's there' is not a good enough region to engage in an act of war against another region.

THat's the thing though. We don't wage war against other regions. The regions we invade are bystanders to the larger conflict: raiders vs. defenders. We aren't at war with regions who've never provoked us in any way. We're at war...with you.

[Mallorea and Riva]

In conclusion: one way to (possibly) get rid of Defenders bothering your efforts is to actually have a genuine in-game reason for what you do.

Ballotonia

I think there's a fundamental misunderstanding here. You seem to think that I want the UDL to cease all military operations. There are two things you should be aware of. The first is that war is not always consensual. Therefore if you dislike the way we raid regions, it's your job to stop us. The second is that this is a game. Defenders (many of them) defend because it is fun to defeat the raiding team. Many raiders raid because they enjoy beating the defender groups. It is a competition that extends beyond political motivation and into the realm of this game being fun.

EDIT: Ninja'd by COE, well said.

[The Blaatschapen]

IMHO 'it's there' is not a good enough region to engage in an act of war against another region.

THat's the thing though. We don't wage war against other regions. The regions we invade are bystanders to the larger conflict: raiders vs. defenders. We aren't at war with regions who've never provoked us in any way. We're at war...with you.

How about peace then? We stop liberating regions and you stop raiding them?

[Mallorea and Riva]

THat's the thing though. We don't wage war against other regions. The regions we invade are bystanders to the larger conflict: raiders vs. defenders. We aren't at war with regions who've never provoked us in any way. We're at war...with you.

How about peace then? We stop liberating regions and you stop raiding them?

Or you could stop us from raiding them. It's usually pretty straightforward. You have plenty of soldiers who know what they're doing in multiple groups. Good luck.