[DISCARDED] Repeal "Rights and Duties of WA States"

[Separatist Peoples]

The idea of giving the WA any direct authority over C.D.S.P. troops is unconscionable to me, not to mention outright dangerous.

Any World Assembly military force will be volunteer-based.

The same way that the WA is funded by "donations" from member states? No thank you. You cannot promise me that a replacement will not pass that will not do exactly that. Until you can promise a true insta-replacement, the risk is too great to accept. Also, this doesn't change my other points about the WA being a nuisance at best to the heavily armed warlords out there. As a representative of a nation that used to be one of those heathens, I can promise you that it won't be received well.

Force, even righteous force, should not be a tool of the WA.

Even in cases of armed aggression by a non-state actor against a legitimate national government?

Yup. That should be an issue for a local jurisdiction defense force. The WA itself should not command any force to prevent it. If that causes problems, so be it.

[Applebania]

The Applebanian delegate stands.
"Applebania has chosen, after careful consideration, to support this repeal, and its replacement. Unfortunately, I have found one problem in the replacement: A strength violation. It should probably be Significant or even Strong!"

[Separatist Peoples]

Applebania has chosen, after careful consideration, to support this repeal, and its replacement. Unfortunately, I have found one problem in the replacement: A strength violation. It should probably be Significant or even Strong!

Repeals have no strength.

[Applebania]

Applebania has chosen, after careful consideration, to support this repeal, and its replacement. Unfortunately, I have found one problem in the replacement: A strength violation. It should probably be Significant or even Strong!

Repeals have no strength.

"For the strength violation, I am talking about the replacement to this resolution, that is, Charter of the World Assembly."

[Separatist Peoples]

Repeals have no strength.

"For the strength violation, I am talking about the replacement to this resolution, that is, Charter of the World Assembly."

Then that observation belongs in the discussion on the proposed replacement, not the repeal discussion...

[Ikania]

From Lazarus' forums:

No. Utterly and completely OPPOSED. You're misunderstanding what the definition means. When Fris wrote that, the GA wasn't only RP. Usually in NS when someone wants to go to war, the two sides consent and create a thread. You're forgetting the right context, and are probably looking for an excuse to repeal the first WA resolution.

The fact that GAR #2 states that nations are permitted to intercede on behalf of nations that wish to avoid war suggests otherwise. In any event, it is unnecessary and inappropriate for the World Assembly to adopt II roleplay norms. The World Assembly occupies a roleplay world of its own, separate from the rest of NationStates.

I strongly resent the accusation that I am "looking for an excuse" to repeal GAR #2.

That's what I mean. At the time, it didn't include roleplay. It doesn't really follow the standards now. And I do believe you are just trying to repeal it, seeing as this is the first resolution ever written that can be.

I don't really understand the argument you're making.

What I'm saying is that this resolution was obviously not meant for the RP world and created more as a guideline to RP actions and II. I see absolutely no point in repealing it and believe you're doing it for publicity.

[Gruenberg]

What I'm saying is that this resolution was obviously not meant for the RP world and created more as a guideline to RP actions and II.

OOC: I don't understand why war should be treated any differently than anything else.

We have diplomatic immunity for our ambassador characters. But that does not mean we as WA forum posters have immunity from the rules. We have freedom of expression. But that does not mean we can flame people and claim "free speech". We have, right now, a proposal about reproductive freedom in queue; but in practice, overpopulation is utterly rampant in NS and no amount of abortion, contraception, or outright genocide can stop every nation adding ~5 million to its population overnight. Yet for some reason we're meant to use an obviously out of character definition of war?

We write WA resolutions to be in-character, and to reflect the RP world we mutually create. That Rights & Duties... is treated any differently is silly, and just serves to conflate in-character resolutions and out of character rules.

[Auralia]

What I'm saying is that this resolution was obviously not meant for the RP world and created more as a guideline to RP actions and II. I see absolutely no point in repealing it and believe you're doing it for publicity.

I'm still not really sure what you're saying, but from what I understand, you think it's fine that GAR #2 serves as a guideline for OOC conventions on warfare used by II. That's wrong: all World Assembly resolutions should be IC and consistent with standard WA RP.

[Ikania]

What I'm saying is that this resolution was obviously not meant for the RP world and created more as a guideline to RP actions and II. I see absolutely no point in repealing it and believe you're doing it for publicity.

I'm still not really sure what you're saying, but from what I understand, you think it's fine that GAR #2 serves as a guideline for OOC conventions on warfare used by II. That's wrong: all World Assembly resolutions should be IC and consistent with standard WA RP.

Yes, that's what I believe. It wasn't RP at the time, rather a guideline. It came first, before the RP consistency, why should it be forced to leave when it's a perfectly good resolution?

[Gruenberg]

I'm still not really sure what you're saying, but from what I understand, you think it's fine that GAR #2 serves as a guideline for OOC conventions on warfare used by II. That's wrong: all World Assembly resolutions should be IC and consistent with standard WA RP.

Yes, that's what I believe. It wasn't RP at the time, rather a guideline. It came first, before the RP consistency, why should it be forced to leave when it's a perfectly good resolution?

OOC: How did it "come first"? Rights & Duties of UN States was the 49th resolution passed by the UN, and when the UN was reset, the WA continued all of the traditions and rules of the previous organization, which had passed 230+ in character resolutions. The only real exception was Max Barry Day. Some company to be in...

[Retired WerePenguins]

I'd like to start this up again. Any thoughts?

You really seem to like beating dead horses.

Please stop.

[The Saint James Islands]

I'd like to start this up again. Any thoughts?

You really seem to like beating dead horses.

Please stop.

And we have jumped back into reality from the miracle that was 'Repeal "Industrial Pollution Control"'... *sigh* We'll endorse the sentiments of the WerePenguin delegation and attempt to drink away the memories of the resolute nightmare that is this proposal. The delegations here, including the Auralians, are more than welcome to join us. I've got a few thousand shillings I can blow on beers for everyone.

[Auralia]

I'm still not really sure what you're saying, but from what I understand, you think it's fine that GAR #2 serves as a guideline for OOC conventions on warfare used by II. That's wrong: all World Assembly resolutions should be IC and consistent with standard WA RP.

Yes, that's what I believe. It wasn't RP at the time, rather a guideline. It came first, before the RP consistency, why should it be forced to leave when it's a perfectly good resolution?

If it's not IC and doesn't comply with standard WA RP, it's not a "perfectly good resolution." GAR #2 currently enshrines in World Assembly law a conception of warfare that makes no sense.

And we have jumped back into reality from the miracle that was 'Repeal "Industrial Pollution Control"'... *sigh* We'll endorse the sentiments of the WerePenguin delegation and attempt to drink away the memories of the resolute nightmare that is this proposal. The delegations here, including the Auralians, are more than welcome to join us. I've got a few thousand shillings I can blow on beers for everyone.

That's unfortunate. We were actually quite optimistic that our two delegations would see eye to eye on this proposal.

[Ainocra]

I'd like to start this up again. Any thoughts?

You really seem to like beating dead horses.

Please stop.

I have to agree, Werepenguins has summed it up perfectly.

[Auralia]

You really seem to like beating dead horses.

Please stop.

I have to agree, Werepenguins has summed it up perfectly.

We are well aware of your and Retired WerePenguins' opposition to this draft; we nevertheless intend to continue.

[TheOpressedOnes]

In Queue.

[Ainocra]

We generally support repeals but this one we cannot.

The language of the target resolution is designed to prevent this assembly from exercising military force which would run counter to the stated aims of the GA, to wit, peace.

We find the arguments flawed and this attempt to undermine almost all existing law to be ill advised.


Opposed

[Elke and Elba]

Waaaaait...

Was this submitted by Auralia?

If so I'm going no since he lied to us again (after the discared self-commend) he's going on a 'hiatus'.

[Wrapper]

Waaaaait...

Was this submitted by Auralia?

If so I'm going no since he lied to us again (after the discared self-commend) he's going on a 'hiatus'.

If not then it's been plagiarized. Also we didn't think authorship by a WA "group" was permissible.

[Sierra Lyricalia]

Waaaaait...

Was this submitted by Auralia?

If so I'm going no since he lied to us again (after the discared self-commend) he's going on a 'hiatus'.

As disclosed in this chamber, the submitting nation is known to be a puppet of the Auralian state.

We will vote against this, but I don't think you can support the assertion "he lied to us again." As mentioned in the Secretariat disclosure in the drafting chamber of the self-commend you're talking about, only the nations Auralia and Afrasiab WA Mission have been barred from the WA.

It's also been a couple of weeks, long enough for a nice little vacation - I think that counts as a "hiatus," and thus Auralia has fulfilled the letter of its pledge.

edits: fix url; IC-ize forum thread ref

[Elke and Elba]

viewtopic.php?p=16703674&sid=5ae1166f3768aa56fdd3e88299cf5f0d#p16703674

Tere, he controls it.

Could it be possible that he passed it to someone else?

EDIT: Sierra got it before me

[Elke and Elba]

Waaaaait...

Was this submitted by Auralia?

If so I'm going no since he lied to us again (after the discared self-commend) he's going on a 'hiatus'.

As disclosed in this thread, the submitting nation is known to be a puppet of the Auralian state.

We will vote against this, but I don't think you can support the assertion "he lied to us again." As mentioned in the Secretariat disclosure in the drafting chamber of the self-commend you're talking about, only the nations Auralia and Afrasiab WA Mission have been barred from the WA.

It's also been a couple of weeks, long enough for a nice little vacation - I think that counts as a "hiatus," and thus Auralia has fulfilled the letter of its pledge.

Yeah, you mean like, uh, 1? I think during this time period only Repeal "Liberate St Abbaddon" and the current some Blackbird thing is up for voting.

[Sierra Lyricalia]

It's been sixteen days since the Secretariat informed the WA of Auralia's ejection from the WA. You can't pretend surprise that that nation is continuing to propound its agenda on this timescale.

Anyway, my staff has been unable to unearth any pledge or even reference by Auralia to any "hiatus." Simply because Auralia itself is behind the "someone" who has "take[n] up the cause to repeal and replace GAR #2 after I'm gone. " (link) doesn't make it illegal or even particularly immoral.

Wicked cynical, sure. But mind-bending levels of cynicism aren't against the law or even the WA Charter.

[Elke and Elba]

It's been sixteen days since the Secretariat informed the WA of Auralia's ejection from the WA. You can't pretend surprise that that nation is continuing to propound its agenda on this timescale.

Anyway, my staff has been unable to unearth any pledge or even reference by Auralia to any "hiatus." Simply because Auralia itself is behind the "someone" who has "take[n] up the cause to repeal and replace GAR #2 after I'm gone. " (link) doesn't make it illegal or even particularly immoral.

Wicked cynical, sure. But mind-bending levels of cynicism aren't against the law or even the WA Charter.

I've a particularly good memory. Here it is.

[Mallorea and Riva]

Trash, worthy of neither our time nor attention.