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[DRAFT] Condemn Sweeze

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[DRAFT] Condemn Sweeze

Postby Improper Classifications » Sat Sep 10, 2022 9:27 am

The Security Council,

Observing the actions of Sweeze to further the advancement of Lily's tagging and raiding operations that of which have already been condemned as a whole by this Council,

Abhorred by the statistics of Sweeze’s tags, which include 6019 regions tagged over 67 updates, on the official Lily Hall of Fame, that of which granted them the title of Supreme Command in that region, which is impressive if not disturbing,

Noting the tagging prowess drawn from the technologies developed by Sweeze, including
- SweezeBreeze, the powerful tagging extension for NationStates which allows its users to simply use hotkeys to tag regions instead of pressing built-in buttons on the user page normally, and its extensions such as Feather
- The technology known as “Swarm”

Noting that while the author of this resolution is a raider themself, Sweeze’s actions transcend the barrier between the ideologies of raiders and defenders,

Saddened for the 6000+ regions tagged and/or captured under their command,

Hereby condemns Sweeze.
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The Orwell Society
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Postby The Orwell Society » Sat Sep 10, 2022 9:35 am

I believe this is illegal on several fronts… firstly being your mention of “tagging”, “updates”, “hot keys”, and “buttons”. 2a, perhaps. Secondly, there’s not enough meat in this proposal, doesn’t make a good enough argument for a condemnation in my opinion. Opposed.
Last edited by The Orwell Society on Sat Sep 10, 2022 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Improper Classifications » Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:01 am

I see, I'll go back and rework it
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Sweeze
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Postby Sweeze » Sat Sep 10, 2022 11:19 am

wow im famous
| lily supreme command | the mt army third in command | dev of swarm and feather |
[6:38 PM] Chingis: ... the Tom Brady of R/D
5417+ times tag/detag delegate, 5945+ regions hit, first person to become delegate of 200+ regions in an update (and only to do so multiple times)
she/they

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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:03 pm

The Orwell Society wrote:I believe this is illegal on several fronts… firstly being your mention of “tagging”, “updates”, “hot keys”, and “buttons”. 2a, perhaps. Secondly, there’s not enough meat in this proposal, doesn’t make a good enough argument for a condemnation in my opinion. Opposed.

As usual you are wrong on some points - a read of the rules may help there.

Overall though the draft is pretty crap, poorly written and researched. To the OP, please try harder.
Former Delegate of The West Pacific. Former Guardian (under many Delegates) of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs and former Security Council Advisor.

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Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

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Postby The Orwell Society » Sat Sep 10, 2022 12:53 pm

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
The Orwell Society wrote:I believe this is illegal on several fronts… firstly being your mention of “tagging”, “updates”, “hot keys”, and “buttons”. 2a, perhaps. Secondly, there’s not enough meat in this proposal, doesn’t make a good enough argument for a condemnation in my opinion. Opposed.

As usual you are wrong on some points - a read of the rules may help there.

Overall though the draft is pretty crap, poorly written and researched. To the OP, please try harder.

I did read the rules… does this proposal not present a 2a violation? A little refresher…

NationStates game: Proposals cannot refer to the game, or events or actions in it, as part of a game


Tagging and updates are indeed part of the game, and mentioning Nationstates with it (though in itself legal) doesn’t help its case)
The Totalitarian Dictatorship of Orwelsia
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:21 pm

The Orwell Society wrote:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:As usual you are wrong on some points - a read of the rules may help there.

Overall though the draft is pretty crap, poorly written and researched. To the OP, please try harder.

I did read the rules… does this proposal not present a 2a violation? A little refresher…

NationStates game: Proposals cannot refer to the game, or events or actions in it, as part of a game


Tagging and updates are indeed part of the game, and mentioning Nationstates with it (though in itself legal) doesn’t help its case)

Missed this bit didn’t you.
Tag" (and other variants - "tagging", "detagging" etc.) - legal when referring to the raider/defender practices.


Do try harder...
Last edited by Bhang Bhang Duc on Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Former Delegate of The West Pacific. Former Guardian (under many Delegates) of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs and former Security Council Advisor.

The West Pacific's Official Welshman, Astronomer and Old Fart

Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

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The Orwell Society
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Postby The Orwell Society » Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:24 pm

Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:
The Orwell Society wrote:I did read the rules… does this proposal not present a 2a violation? A little refresher…



Tagging and updates are indeed part of the game, and mentioning Nationstates with it (though in itself legal) doesn’t help its case)

Missed this bit didn’t you.
Tag" (and other variants - "tagging", "detagging" etc.) - legal when referring to the raider/defender practices.


Do try harder...

My apologies, but you can’t just dismiss the rest. How is referring to the server’s updates even remotely legal, or a script’s hotkey function?
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Postby Improper Classifications » Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:25 pm

Well, this makes me glad now that I posted this
Thanks for the feedback and I'll be back soon with a better version
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Bhang Bhang Duc
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Postby Bhang Bhang Duc » Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:29 pm

The Orwell Society wrote:
Bhang Bhang Duc wrote:Missed this bit didn’t you.
Tag" (and other variants - "tagging", "detagging" etc.) - legal when referring to the raider/defender practices.


Do try harder...

My apologies, but you can’t just dismiss the rest. How is referring to the server’s updates even remotely legal, or a script’s hotkey function?

Didn’t say it was. I just said your analysis wasn’t completely correct.
Former Delegate of The West Pacific. Former Guardian (under many Delegates) of The West Pacific. TWP's Former Minister for World Assembly Affairs and former Security Council Advisor.

The West Pacific's Official Welshman, Astronomer and Old Fart

Pierconium wrote:I see Funk as an opportunistic manipulator that utilises the means available to him to reach his goals. In other words, a nation after my own heart.

RiderSyl wrote:If an enchantress made it so one raid could bring about world peace, Unibot would ask raiders to just sign a petition instead.

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Minskiev
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Postby Minskiev » Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:35 pm

Maybe doable? Would be very technically difficult, I think. Probably worse than Condemn Lily, and that wasn't a cakewalk.
Hulldom: At some point, authors without real end goals for what they want to do turn their resolutions into shitposting.
I have a goal of promoting democracy, equitable competition, and readiness. Sep focuses on conduct during war. IA on liberalization of the economy and society.
I have no freaking clue with Minsk.
Salem: i hope Walrus gets DOS in a year and the black walruses gets raided
Andusre: cause like, cringe, we stan walrus
Moon: who gave a walrus RO powers
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Postby Improper Classifications » Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:39 pm

Minskiev wrote:Maybe doable? Would be very technically difficult, I think. Probably worse than Condemn Lily, and that wasn't a cakewalk.

That does not make me feel any better about this but I will try anyway thanks
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Postby Improper Classifications » Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:41 pm

Improper Classifications wrote:
Minskiev wrote:Maybe doable? Would be very technically difficult, I think. Probably worse than Condemn Lily, and that wasn't a cakewalk.

That does not make me feel any better about this but I will try anyway thanks

Yeah, I guess the main problem is that so much of Sweeze's infamy roots from mechanics and not actual other actions
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Postby Minskiev » Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:45 pm

I would say it's more of how difficult it is to successfully argue that Sweeze's adeptness at tagging is condemnable, since (and this may be completely wrong!) I don't remember if Sweeze has done anything additional that would add to her case. Now, she may very well be the best tagger of all time, but it's if you can argue that she's so good at tagging that she significantly influences R/D by herself. Condemn Lily was easier in that regard, because Lily undoubtedly achieved that.
Hulldom: At some point, authors without real end goals for what they want to do turn their resolutions into shitposting.
I have a goal of promoting democracy, equitable competition, and readiness. Sep focuses on conduct during war. IA on liberalization of the economy and society.
I have no freaking clue with Minsk.
Salem: i hope Walrus gets DOS in a year and the black walruses gets raided
Andusre: cause like, cringe, we stan walrus
Moon: who gave a walrus RO powers
Comfed: Walrus is the only one here with the courage to expose liberal yahoos
Minskiev \o/ Walrus
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10x WA Author, Amb. Wallace Russell
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Lile Ulie Islands
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Postby Lile Ulie Islands » Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:47 pm

I'm not going to say that I am totally opposed to this, however, Lily isn't the worst of raiders. I don't like raiders, I'll put that straight. However, they're not the worst of raiders. It's of a lot of Thorns and Qekitors, and such. Tag raids. But I do believe I supported Condemn Lily.
Last edited by Lile Ulie Islands on Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Improper Classifications » Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:50 pm

Lile Ulie Islands wrote:I'm not going to say that I am totally opposed to this, however, Lily isn't the worst of raiders. I don't like raiders, I'll put that straight. However, they're not the worst of raiders.

I'm not sure who would be worse
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Postby Improper Classifications » Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:51 pm

Minskiev wrote:I would say it's more of how difficult it is to successfully argue that Sweeze's adeptness at tagging is condemnable, since (and this may be completely wrong!) I don't remember if Sweeze has done anything additional that would add to her case. Now, she may very well be the best tagger of all time, but it's if you can argue that she's so good at tagging that she significantly influences R/D by herself. Condemn Lily was easier in that regard, because Lily undoubtedly achieved that.

It's also the technological side of the argument, since SweezeBreeze is an extension it's difficult to state that it affected R/D without using illegal terms
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Postby Minskiev » Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:52 pm

Improper Classifications wrote:
Minskiev wrote:I would say it's more of how difficult it is to successfully argue that Sweeze's adeptness at tagging is condemnable, since (and this may be completely wrong!) I don't remember if Sweeze has done anything additional that would add to her case. Now, she may very well be the best tagger of all time, but it's if you can argue that she's so good at tagging that she significantly influences R/D by herself. Condemn Lily was easier in that regard, because Lily undoubtedly achieved that.

It's also the technological side of the argument, since SweezeBreeze is an extension it's difficult to state that it affected R/D without using illegal terms

This is very easy. Just say "weapon".
Hulldom: At some point, authors without real end goals for what they want to do turn their resolutions into shitposting.
I have a goal of promoting democracy, equitable competition, and readiness. Sep focuses on conduct during war. IA on liberalization of the economy and society.
I have no freaking clue with Minsk.
Salem: i hope Walrus gets DOS in a year and the black walruses gets raided
Andusre: cause like, cringe, we stan walrus
Moon: who gave a walrus RO powers
Comfed: Walrus is the only one here with the courage to expose liberal yahoos
Minskiev \o/ Walrus
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10x WA Author, Amb. Wallace Russell
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Postby Improper Classifications » Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:54 pm

Minskiev wrote:
Improper Classifications wrote:It's also the technological side of the argument, since SweezeBreeze is an extension it's difficult to state that it affected R/D without using illegal terms

This is very easy. Just say "weapon".

Oh lol
Sorry I'm a bit new at this
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Lile Ulie Islands
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Postby Lile Ulie Islands » Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:54 pm

Improper Classifications wrote:
Lile Ulie Islands wrote:I'm not going to say that I am totally opposed to this, however, Lily isn't the worst of raiders. I don't like raiders, I'll put that straight. However, they're not the worst of raiders.

I'm not sure who would be worse


The Black Hawks, Suspicious, The Brotherhood of Malice, The Tungsten Order
Last edited by Lile Ulie Islands on Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Improper Classifications » Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:55 pm

Lile Ulie Islands wrote:
Improper Classifications wrote:I'm not sure who would be worse


The Black Hawks, Suspicious, The Brotherhood of Malice, The Tungsten Order

It's quality over quantity, then?
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Lile Ulie Islands
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Postby Lile Ulie Islands » Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:58 pm

Improper Classifications wrote:

It's quality over quantity, then?


Most of the times, yes.
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The Orwell Society
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Postby The Orwell Society » Sat Sep 10, 2022 1:59 pm

Lile Ulie Islands wrote:
Improper Classifications wrote:I'm not sure who would be worse


The Black Hawks, Suspicious, The Brotherhood of Malice, The Tungsten Order

Suspicious isn’t a raiding org. It’s a jump point for several raiding orgs. And I’m not sure the Tungsten Order is in really a threat… it’s basically just one nation from what I’ve seen.
Last edited by The Orwell Society on Sat Sep 10, 2022 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Totalitarian Dictatorship of Orwelsia
Current Minister of State for WA Affairs and WA Delegate of the Imperial Royarchy of Sildoria
Founder and Chairman of the Sildorian Cards Guild
Aspiring WA author
Centrist; leaning right authoritarian, for mixed markets and LGBTQ rights, against abortion and recreational drug use
This nation 100% represents my real world views
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Postby Improper Classifications » Sat Sep 10, 2022 2:00 pm

Lile Ulie Islands wrote:
Improper Classifications wrote:It's quality over quantity, then?


Most of the times, yes.

I feel like affecting over 6k regions is more effective in getting your raiding name out there than just malicifying, like, 500, but you do you
I guess also regions like TBH and TBOM have more history rooted in raiding
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Lile Ulie Islands
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Postby Lile Ulie Islands » Sat Sep 10, 2022 2:01 pm

The Orwell Society wrote:

Suspicious isn’t a raiding org. It’s a jump point for several raiding orgs. And I’m not sure the Tungsten Order is in really a threat… it’s basically just one nation from what I’ve seen.


Well for Suspicious, technically. I listed TTO because they keep raiding my region, and getting rid of all embassies (quite a few), and do other stupid stuff.
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