Tutti a casa! Italian political elections, 2022

[Tsardom of Alaska]

I don’t see what’s the big deal tbh

It is for the 60.48 million people living in Italy (not that I am one of them myself)

[San Lumen]

She’s not only far right she is dangerous. She a racist, homophobic, xenophobic bigot and the President should refuse to appoint her Prime Minister.

I bet you agree with von der Leyen's comments about her wanting the EU to use every tool to deny her a place as ruler of Italy. While I disagree with practically everything about Meloni and her coalition, her party and coalition did get elected by the Italian people, and to deny her a chance to rule Italy would be to go against every single democratic norm.

I do agree.

I don’t care. If the President cared about the country he’d refuse to name her prime minister and cause a constitutional crisis.

[The Grand World Order]

I bet you agree with von der Leyen's comments about her wanting the EU to use every tool to deny her a place as ruler of Italy. While I disagree with practically everything about Meloni and her coalition, her party and coalition did get elected by the Italian people, and to deny her a chance to rule Italy would be to go against every single democratic norm.

I do agree.

I don’t care. If the President cared about the country he’d refuse to name her prime minister and cause a constitutional crisis.

Democracy ain't lookin' so hot now, I take it?

[Outer Sparta]

I bet you agree with von der Leyen's comments about her wanting the EU to use every tool to deny her a place as ruler of Italy. While I disagree with practically everything about Meloni and her coalition, her party and coalition did get elected by the Italian people, and to deny her a chance to rule Italy would be to go against every single democratic norm.

I do agree.

I don’t care. If the President cared about the country he’d refuse to name her prime minister and cause a constitutional crisis.

Doesn't that make you a hypocrite if you care so much about democracy and the will of the people but when someone gets elected that you don't like and don't agree with, then you don't want them to be in power despite them getting elected? Besides, Italy is different from the US politically and culturally. And this isn't even the most fascist or right-wing government in their history (after Mussolini).

[Dreria]

I don’t see what’s the big deal tbh

It is for the 60.48 million people living in Italy (not that I am one of them myself)

Governments come and go. I doubt this one will be much different

[Shrillland]

It is for the 60.48 million people living in Italy (not that I am one of them myself)

Governments come and go. I doubt this one will be much different

Aye, but they do have a big enough majority in both houses to bring one of their biggest proposals up for a plebiscite: Turning Italy into a Presidential system of government, which Meloni would probably run for first chance she gets. Hell, if they can get M5S on board, they won't even need the plebiscite, they can ratify the amendment by themselves.

[Vikanias]

“We love democracy!”

*people vote for the other side*

“If they actually CARED about their country they would let the people I agree with into power!”

[Risottia]

I bet you agree with von der Leyen's comments about her wanting the EU to use every tool to deny her a place as ruler of Italy. While I disagree with practically everything about Meloni and her coalition, her party and coalition did get elected by the Italian people, and to deny her a chance to rule Italy would be to go against every single democratic norm.

I do agree.

I don’t care. If the President cared about the country he’d refuse to name her prime minister and cause a constitutional crisis.

The President can't just do whatever he pleases.
The Constitution specifies that the President of the Republic must hold talks with the parliamentary groups and find if there's the possibility of having a majority in both Houses supporting a cabinet. In that case, he is supposed to appoint as President of the Ministers' Council (no, we don't have a Prime Minister) the person most likely to be given confidence by the parliamentary majority, and send them to the Parliament to try and win a confidence vote.
In the case no majority can be formed, the current cabinet stays in charge as caretaker and new elections are indicted. But this is not the case as the right-wing coalition has a majority in both Houses. And yeah, preserving the Constitution is crucial, especially now.

[Risottia]

“We love democracy!”

*people vote for the other side*

“If they actually CARED about their country they would let the people I agree with into power!”

I don't love representative democracy. Representative democracy is a shitty system, its only merit is that every other system we tried so far is even worse.

And yes, most Italians don't care for their country as a whole. We tend to be way more centered about our own personal and immediate interest and convenience.

[Risottia]

I don’t see what’s the big deal tbh

Well, having the 3rd economy of the EU ruled by the "neo-post-almost" fascists is quite a game changer, especially with a major war in Europe.

[Risottia]

At best she will be a pathetic failure who does nothing.

Her party members are already talking about cancelling Law 194/1978 (right to abortion).
One of the hopefuls as Finance minister is Giulio Tremonti, who in 2011 as Finance minister brought Italy within millimetres from default.
One of the hopefuls as Defence minister is Ignazio La Russa, former leader of a fascist organisation that used hand grenades to kill a 22-year-old policeman during the Years of Lead.
One of the newly-elected MPs is the daughter of Pino Rauti, a leader of a fascist fringe party who tried to lead a coup in the late 70's. She openly supports the political work of her father.

There's no fucking chance Meloni's majority will "do nothing".

[San Lumen]

I do agree.

I don’t care. If the President cared about the country he’d refuse to name her prime minister and cause a constitutional crisis.

The President can't just do whatever he pleases.
The Constitution specifies that the President of the Republic must hold talks with the parliamentary groups and find if there's the possibility of having a majority in both Houses supporting a cabinet. In that case, he is supposed to appoint as President of the Ministers' Council (no, we don't have a Prime Minister) the person most likely to be given confidence by the parliamentary majority, and send them to the Parliament to try and win a confidence vote.
In the case no majority can be formed, the current cabinet stays in charge as caretaker and new elections are indicted. But this is not the case as the right-wing coalition has a majority in both Houses. And yeah, preserving the Constitution is crucial, especially now.

and he should say this insane bigoted woman will not be nominated by me.

[Rakhalia]

“We love democracy!”

*people vote for the other side*

“If they actually CARED about their country they would let the people I agree with into power!”

I mean, you're half right. The main issue here is that it's a stunning indictment of the current model of liberal democracy, one that was already obvious but forgotten with time. Liberals can't wrap their head around this because it's fundamentally self-contradictory to their belief system; they believe in universal rights, but the network of information and economics they're responsible for has allowed someone like Meloni, who's hell-bent on restricting the rights of people like immigrants, LGBT people, et cetera to gain power. It leaves a lot of cognitive dissonance in place.

The fundamental problem here is that the framework shows that these rights can be taken away if the liberal political process is hijacked by fascists, which either disillusions liberals or sends them into denial -- hence the insistence that Meloni either isn't a fascist or at least it's good that a woman got elected in Italy, et cetera. If we want to prevent fascism, another course of action than ineffectual liberalism is necessary.

[Outer Sparta]

“We love democracy!”

*people vote for the other side*

“If they actually CARED about their country they would let the people I agree with into power!”

I mean, you're half right. The main issue here is that it's a stunning indictment of the current model of liberal democracy, one that was already obvious but forgotten with time. Liberals can't wrap their head around this because it's fundamentally self-contradictory to their belief system; they believe in universal rights, but the network of information and economics they're responsible for has allowed someone like Meloni, who's hell-bent on restricting the rights of people like immigrants, LGBT people, et cetera to gain power. It leaves a lot of cognitive dissonance in place.

The fundamental problem here is that the framework shows that these rights can be taken away if the liberal political process is hijacked by fascists, which either disillusions liberals or sends them into denial -- hence the insistence that Meloni either isn't a fascist or at least it's good that a woman got elected in Italy, et cetera. If we want to prevent fascism, another course of action than ineffectual liberalism is necessary.

Basically what Hillary Clinton said. "The election of the first woman prime minister in a country always represents a break with the past, and that is certainly a good thing." Her logic being that fascism isn't a bad thing if it's a woman that's leading the charge. A woman being a fascist is no different than a man being a fascist.

[Frattastan IV]

Personally, I am optimistic about this government, which promises to be one of the most stable in republican history, in fact it has a large majority and the coalition appears to be stable.

I disagree. The majority in the Senate is about 56% of the assembly (112 out of 200). The coalition's platform and messaging was a mix of everyone's pet projects, which sometimes are contradictory. There are possible points of friction and, while the government will no doubt form without problems, it's unrealistic to expect that in the next five years there won't be at least a crisis over fiscal policy (esp. attempt at or absence of major tax reform, and measures to control inflation or debt), foreign policy, or constitutional reform projects. The exact number is also unlikely to stay the same given the prevalence of party switching.

Personally I already have the nightmare of an FdI-PD-Azione cabinet somehow happening when I thought that all possibilities had been exhausted.

I don’t see what’s the big deal tbh

Well, having the 3rd economy of the EU ruled by the "neo-post-almost" fascists is quite a game changer, especially with a major war in Europe.

It's hard to treat this as a watershed movement after Berlusconi let MSI/AN in government in '94. In 2001 we even had a minister (Tremaglia) who had been a volunteer for the Italian Social Republic. La Russa, who leaves flowers on the graves of collaborators, has already been Defence Minister. This adds another level, but worrying about the normalisation of <prefix->fascists in 2022 may be too late.

Of course, my favourite election-related news was Salvini suggesting (before the correction of election results) that Umberto Bossi, the man who said he would use the national flag to wipe his ass, should be appointed senator-for-life. Patriots.

[Risottia]

Of course, my favourite election-related news was Salvini suggesting (before the correction of election results) that Umberto Bossi, the man who said he would use the national flag to wipe his ass, should be appointed senator-for-life. Patriots.

Actually he told a person who was protesting against secession by waving a national flag that she could use it to wipe her own ass. Was sentenced for it, too.
Anyway, Bossi isn't becoming senator for life because a) there are no places available, no new senators for life can be appointed now and b) turned out Bossi has been elected after all.

[Frattastan IV]

Of course, my favourite election-related news was Salvini suggesting (before the correction of election results) that Umberto Bossi, the man who said he would use the national flag to wipe his ass, should be appointed senator-for-life. Patriots.

Actually he told a person who was protesting against secession by waving a national flag that she could use it to wipe her own ass. Was sentenced for it, too.

He also mentioned it as something he would do himself.

"il deputato Bossi e' stato dichiarato colpevole del reato di cui all'art. 292 del codice penale per avere, in data 25 luglio 1997, nel corso di una manifestazione indetta dalla Lega Nord e svoltasi nei pressi del Palazzetto dello sport di Cabiate, pronunziato le seguenti parole: «quando io vedo il tricolore, mi incazzo; il tricolore lo uso soltanto per pulirmi il culo»"¹

Yeah, aware he can't be appointed (aside from the obvious lack of the requirement of having honoured the country with the highest merits ...), was more looking at the ridiculousness of the statement.

[Risottia]

Actually he told a person who was protesting against secession by waving a national flag that she could use it to wipe her own ass. Was sentenced for it, too.

He also mentioned it as something he would do himself.

"il deputato Bossi e' stato dichiarato colpevole del reato di cui all'art. 292 del codice penale per avere, in data 25 luglio 1997, nel corso di una manifestazione indetta dalla Lega Nord e svoltasi nei pressi del Palazzetto dello sport di Cabiate, pronunziato le seguenti parole: «quando io vedo il tricolore, mi incazzo; il tricolore lo uso soltanto per pulirmi il culo»"¹

Yeah, aware he can't be appointed (aside from the obvious lack of the requirement of having honoured the country with the highest merits ...), was more looking at the ridiculousness of the statement.

Oh, I forgot that other occasion.

[Diuhon]

“We love democracy!”

*people vote for the other side*

“If they actually CARED about their country they would let the people I agree with into power!”

unironically yes

[Il Sonno della Ragione Genera Mostri]

I do agree.

I don’t care. If the President cared about the country he’d refuse to name her prime minister and cause a constitutional crisis.

Democracy ain't lookin' so hot now, I take it?

The compassionate, hard working population of 60 million Italians are prohibited from doing almost everything except voting, which they do timidly and conservatively.

[United Bongo States of America]