by Asardia » Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:31 pm
by Katganistan » Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:45 pm
by Neutraligon » Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:46 pm
Katganistan wrote:We have open enrollment in NYC. The only issue is that some students have a hard time getting to school on time -- their commute can be up to three hours each way.
by Katganistan » Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:56 pm
by Stellar Colonies » Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:24 pm
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by Asardia » Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:47 pm
Katganistan wrote:We have open enrollment in NYC. The only issue is that some students have a hard time getting to school on time -- their commute can be up to two hours each way.
Stellar Colonies wrote:I attended high school in a neighboring town which was part of a different district, and had access to opportunities I would not have had otherwise. The commute was a little rigorous, but worth it in my opinion.
I’m rather supportive.
by Saiwania » Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:11 am
by Emotional Support Crocodile » Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:33 am
by Kerwa » Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:15 am
by Ethel mermania » Wed Jul 06, 2022 3:16 am
by Forsher » Wed Jul 06, 2022 6:59 am
by Ethel mermania » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:03 am
Forsher wrote:And what happens when you can't go to the school next door because they've got people waking up at 4am to get there?
School choice is evil.
by Forsher » Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:14 am
by Asardia » Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:18 am
Emotional Support Crocodile wrote:Just improving failing schools would be stupid, right?
Forsher wrote:And what happens when you can't go to the school next door because they've got people waking up at 4am to get there?
School choice is evil.
by Galiantus III » Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:24 am
Forsher wrote:And what happens when you can't go to the school next door because they've got people waking up at 4am to get there?
School choice is evil.
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by Forsher » Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:30 am
Galiantus III wrote:Forsher wrote:And what happens when you can't go to the school next door because they've got people waking up at 4am to get there?
School choice is evil.
Vouchers would solve that problem pretty easily. If there was a high demand for education in an area, the extra funds would help existing schools to expand, or would contribute to building new schools.
by Ethel mermania » Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:34 am
Forsher wrote:Galiantus III wrote:
Vouchers would solve that problem pretty easily. If there was a high demand for education in an area, the extra funds would help existing schools to expand, or would contribute to building new schools.
That's not what vouchers are.
And you can't just expand because they're going to, wait for it, continue to deny places to neighbourhood children in favour of the commuters.
Or, alternatively, you have several absolutely enormous schools, 40k pupils or whatever, and a bunch of really tired families... and all the other schools have closed down because in order to keep up with expansion, these popular schools are stealing their teachers...
This doesn't appear to happen in the US because the US doesn't actually have school choice according to Ethel. But much of this did happen here and it's why the system was shot in the street and dragged through the mud. Leading to, of course, voucher programme suggestions (possibly policy, I forget) and charter schools (also killed with extreme prejudice, just a few years ago now) twenty years later.
by Forsher » Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:40 am
Ethel mermania wrote:Forsher wrote:
That's not what vouchers are.
And you can't just expand because they're going to, wait for it, continue to deny places to neighbourhood children in favour of the commuters.
Or, alternatively, you have several absolutely enormous schools, 40k pupils or whatever, and a bunch of really tired families... and all the other schools have closed down because in order to keep up with expansion, these popular schools are stealing their teachers...
This doesn't appear to happen in the US because the US doesn't actually have school choice according to Ethel. But much of this did happen here and it's why the system was shot in the street and dragged through the mud. Leading to, of course, voucher programme suggestions (possibly policy, I forget) and charter schools (also killed with extreme prejudice, just a few years ago now) twenty years later.
Oh no, just because you jump to a wrong conclusion don't pin it on me.
I said no such thing, in fact my point was quite the opposite.
by Galiantus III » Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:48 am
And you can't just expand because they're going to, wait for it, continue to deny places to neighbourhood children in favour of the commuters.
Or, alternatively, you have several absolutely enormous schools, 40k pupils or whatever, and a bunch of really tired families... and all the other schools have closed down because in order to keep up with expansion, these popular schools are stealing their teachers...
This doesn't appear to happen in the US because the US doesn't actually have school choice according to Ethel. But much of this did happen here and it's why the system was shot in the street and dragged through the mud. Leading to, of course, voucher programme suggestions (possibly policy, I forget) and charter schools (also killed with extreme prejudice, just a few years ago now) twenty years later.
Frisbeeteria wrote:For some reason I have a mental image of a dolphin, trying to organize a new pod of his fellow dolphins to change the course of a nuclear sub. It's entertaining, I'll give ya that.
Ballotonia wrote:Testing is for sissies. The actual test is to see how many people complain when any change is made ;)
by Ethel mermania » Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:05 am
Forsher wrote:Ethel mermania wrote:
Oh no, just because you jump to a wrong conclusion don't pin it on me.
I said no such thing, in fact my point was quite the opposite.
If you give priority to neighbourhood children, you cannot have school choice. Whether you agree with this statement is completely beside the point. It is your fact, which you provided.
Now, as it happens, either the fact you gave is wrong... and you can deny a place to the kid next door... or school choice does not exist... because you can't send your kid to the desirable school, since its capacity is filled by people the school had to accept.
Your fact is just how the present system works in NZ. You don't have to send your kid/s to the school(s) you're zoned for. But if you do try to, then that school has to accept your kid/s, come hell or high water. We contrast this with the school choice model for a reason.
by Neon Lunar Eclipse » Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:41 am
by Forsher » Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:29 pm
Ethel mermania wrote:Forsher wrote:
If you give priority to neighbourhood children, you cannot have school choice. Whether you agree with this statement is completely beside the point. It is your fact, which you provided.
Now, as it happens, either the fact you gave is wrong... and you can deny a place to the kid next door... or school choice does not exist... because you can't send your kid to the desirable school, since its capacity is filled by people the school had to accept.
Your fact is just how the present system works in NZ. You don't have to send your kid/s to the school(s) you're zoned for. But if you do try to, then that school has to accept your kid/s, come hell or high water. We contrast this with the school choice model for a reason.
If a school has 200 seats, and only 150 are taken by locals that means 50 seats are available for outsiders.
And you can't just expand because they're going to, wait for it, continue to deny places to neighbourhood children in favour of the commuters.
The point of expanding is to enroll as many students as possible. Why would a school expand then deny more funds? Also, what is preventing the establishment of rules to prioritize students within a certain geographic area around the school?
Or, alternatively, you have several absolutely enormous schools, 40k pupils or whatever, and a bunch of really tired families... and all the other schools have closed down because in order to keep up with expansion, these popular schools are stealing their teachers...
That's not how any of this works. If a bunch of families don't want to make a huge commute for school, they're going to prioritize schools closer to them, which will be enough to sustain them. And if a school is really so good tons of people are willing to commute... isn't that a good thing?
This doesn't appear to happen in the US because the US doesn't actually have school choice according to Ethel. But much of this did happen here and it's why the system was shot in the street and dragged through the mud. Leading to, of course, voucher programme suggestions (possibly policy, I forget) and charter schools (also killed with extreme prejudice, just a few years ago now) twenty years later.
Charter schools still exist. In plentiful amounts, actually. And they are superior to public schools in practically every way.
by Ethel mermania » Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:45 pm
Forsher wrote:Ethel mermania wrote:If a school has 200 seats, and only 150 are taken by locals that means 50 seats are available for outsiders.
Yes. That's not school choice.Galiantus III wrote:Vouchers = the money follows the student.
Which has nothing to do with what I was talking about. If you can explain how school vouchers solve the problem of children being unable to go to the school next door, do tell.The point of expanding is to enroll as many students as possible. Why would a school expand then deny more funds? Also, what is preventing the establishment of rules to prioritize students within a certain geographic area around the school?
Because once you do that, you don't have a school choice regime. You have a system in which you have to cross your fingers and hope that the school is under-subscribed by people with privileged access.That's not how any of this works. If a bunch of families don't want to make a huge commute for school, they're going to prioritize schools closer to them, which will be enough to sustain them. And if a school is really so good tons of people are willing to commute... isn't that a good thing?
Sure, if they can stay open.+Charter schools still exist. In plentiful amounts, actually. And they are superior to public schools in practically every way.
In that paragraph, am I talking about the US? Try again.
by Forsher » Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:49 pm
Ethel mermania wrote:Forsher wrote:
Yes. That's not school choice.
Which has nothing to do with what I was talking about. If you can explain how school vouchers solve the problem of children being unable to go to the school next door, do tell.
Because once you do that, you don't have a school choice regime. You have a system in which you have to cross your fingers and hope that the school is under-subscribed by people with privileged access.
Sure, if they can stay open.+
In that paragraph, am I talking about the US? Try again.
I dont think you understand the meaning of " school choice."
No school has an unlimited number of seats. The choice is ALWAYS limited by availability of seats.
If you are claiming that school choice only happens when every student gets to go to whatever school they choose whether there are seats are not... well that never existed anywhere nor can it.
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