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[ABANDONED] Morality in Education

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Macadia
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Democratic Socialists

[ABANDONED] Morality in Education

Postby Macadia » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:25 pm

Please stop posting here, this thread is dead and the proposal has been abandoned, if you want to discuss my non-compliance, I would be happy to make a separate thread or just telegram me. Thanks!
Last edited by Macadia on Sat Jul 09, 2022 6:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Untecna
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Postby Untecna » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:27 pm

Criticisms are feedback, no matter how you wish to paint it.

Just pointing that out.
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Saint Tomas and the Northern Ice Islands
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Postby Saint Tomas and the Northern Ice Islands » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:28 pm

As an immoral group of drug addicted, homosexual bullies, we are opposed.

Also, wrong forum.
Last edited by Saint Tomas and the Northern Ice Islands on Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Macadia
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Postby Macadia » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:29 pm

Saint Tomas and the Northern Ice Islands wrote:As an immoral group of drug addicted, homosexual bullies, we are opposed.

Also, wrong forum.


Again, I’m aware, and also, this just confused me, I never said anything explicitly targeting any group, in fact that was the point of saying “heterosexual or homosexual”
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The United Penguin Commonwealth
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Postby The United Penguin Commonwealth » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:36 pm

the definition of "inappropriate content" is too vague. there is no definition for "education" or "discourse" or "lesson". does clause 2c ban all mentions of romantic relations, or just actual, structured lessons? who's to say? regardless, I oppose this for clause 2c, clause 1b's examples, and the overall vagueness.

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Untecna
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Postby Untecna » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:42 pm

“Inappropriate content” is defined as content, whether lessons, books, or any other materials available in schools that is intended for children despite being improper for innocent children to be taught upon, as well as topics that are inherently immoral for children to be educated on: (violence and abuse, lessons and discourse relating to sexually explicit content, etc.)


So, a few things on this definition area:
  1. So, what defines "innocent children"? The way thats worded, you could remove the use of this definition by saying a child isn't innocent.
  2. Violence and abuse shouldn't be taught to be normal things, that's where its bad to teach that stuff. However, teaching it as a way to learn how to build relationships and how to avoid bad ones is a crucial part of any health classes.




Your Part C of the definitions is odd, considering that Definition A lists a secondary school as a school in these circumstances. However, you seem to say that only primary schools count within Part C, what with ages and all.

Furthermore, why arbitrary ages? You could just list this as being for the equivalents to primary schools.

As going with that contradicting definition matter:

Prohibits the education upon, and the discourse on, topics relating to sexually explicit and inappropriate content. This includes any sexuality, heterosexual or homosexual, and any lessons on gender.


So... how is this different from attempts to make laws, both here and IRL, to ban the word gay because its "sexually explicit"? Who is showing children pornography, especially in the age range you have set? It doesn't matter if its straight, gay, or anything else, who is actually doing that and not already getting punished for other crimes?

How is the mere topic of sexuality and gender "sexually explicit"?




and none subjected to any political perspectives within their education


Again, this feels like a jab based on IRL stuff. I don't see how most nations would be doing this, considering that most in general are essentially liberal democracies of some sort.




Schools will also be required to provide these students with the resources they need to ensure their mental health, such as counseling.


Who determines and enforces the needs?




And thats just what I'm covering so far.
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Untecna
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Postby Untecna » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:43 pm

Overall, I am opposed to this.
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Roylaii
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Postby Roylaii » Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:50 pm

Macadia wrote:C. Prohibits the education upon, and the discourse on, topics relating to sexually explicit and inappropriate content. This includes any sexuality, heterosexual or homosexual, and any lessons on gender.

Now while GA#603 is being considered for repeal, it remains in force until as such time it is repealed. This is important since it mandates discourse on this subject (sexuality, gender) and your proposal would contradict this.
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Fachumonn
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Postby Fachumonn » Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:05 pm

Wrong forum.


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Comfed
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Postby Comfed » Thu Jun 30, 2022 6:09 pm

Macadia wrote:C. Prohibits the education upon, and the discourse on, topics relating to sexually explicit and inappropriate content. This includes any sexuality, heterosexual or homosexual, and any lessons on gender.

"Full support. We in Comfed are sick and tired of morally bankrupt educators around the world going around and talking about their wives in front of their students, and even sinking to such vile levels as to use the words 'he' and 'she' when referring to students - disgusting, as I'm sure you can agree. It is time to bring a little bit of good old-fashioned morals into the schools of the world."
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Postby Daarwyrth » Fri Jul 01, 2022 12:47 am

Representative Wentapelloven: "We are fully and completely opposed to this resolution draft and we sincerely hope it will never reach submission. We recommend the Ambasador from Macadia to drop this resolution draft in haste."
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Attempted Socialism
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Postby Attempted Socialism » Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:58 am

Macadia wrote:PLEASE provide actual feedback, preferably not just harsh, fruitless, criticisms.

This draft is not good: it shows little understanding of the WA voting majority; it contradicts other resolutions; it assumes a human-only US-based world and is antagonistic to people's RPs; the premise is probably not workable. This mix of things that could be fixed with drafting and things that dooms the resolution means that criticism will be a lot of "it's bad" and "drop it", respectively responding to the type of flaw the poster concentrates on.
It doesn't mean you're a bad person, or that you can't learn the game, but your draft suggests that you lack familiarity with the rules, with extant resolutions, and the politics. Those are things you can learn if you choose to stick around. This draft will not succeed, but you might.

A. A “school” is defined as a primary or secondary educational center intended specifically for instruction on academic subjects, (i.e mathematics, literature, science, etc.)
So, a few things: First, you're using "i.e." wrong here. It stands for "id est", or "that is". I tell my students to read it as "in essence", because it's clarifies a list. If you want to give examples, use "e.g.". The effect of this definition is to say that academic subjects is only mathematics, literature, and science. No other subject is relevant to your definition. Second, what of a nation that does not use primary or secondary education?

B. “Inappropriate content” is defined as content, whether lessons, books, or any other materials available in schools that is intended for children despite being improper for innocent children to be taught upon, as well as topics that are inherently immoral for children to be educated on: (violence and abuse, lessons and discourse relating to sexually explicit content, etc.)
What of the nations that do not think the topics are inherently immoral for a child to be educated on? What is an innocent child, and what of children convicted of a crime?
We'll get into this again later, but you're also not laying the foundation necessary to convince anyone that this draconian purity-scheme is good or necessary. It reads as some US parent list of things they can't talk about themselves, so they want their kids to be as repressed as they are themselves, so they'll forever be ashamed and thus never bring it up.

C. Within the context of the protections and prohibitions of this resolution, and to avoid any contradiction, “students” will apply to any child within an educational system under the age of 10 years of age, and over 5 years of age, this is to ensure that this resolution has no interference with sex education.
And for the nation of dragons where their offspring are children for centuries? The nation of mice that lives only a few years? The nation of hive-mind potted plants with ambassadors straight out of horror-movies? This is antagonistic to roleplayers.

A. Education on topics such as drugs, and their negative impacts will be strengthened and required for students, to ensure their own health and safety.
Painkillers are drugs. What you might call illegal drugs can be legal many places (My own IC nation has decriminalised possession of all drugs, for instance, and made a number of them legal as well). You also make no effort to convince me of the merit of this clause, national or international. If this is a concern in your nation, you can RP the existence of this law in your own nation.

B. Education on topics such as bullying and discrimination will be required and reinforced to ensure that students are wary of their own actions, and the effects they have on their peers. Schools will also be required to provide these students with the resources they need to ensure their mental health, such as counseling.
I have no policy opposition here, but I will question why this is only an issue for 5-10 year-olds, and why this needs international action.

C. Prohibits the education upon, and the discourse on, topics relating to sexually explicit and inappropriate content. This includes any sexuality, heterosexual or homosexual, and any lessons on gender.
I don't know what to say. This is like the perfect encapsulation of bad policy, bad implementation, bad understanding of the GA. Last bit first: You're in contradiction of a previously passed, non-repealed resolution, which means this line will make your resolution illegal. Second, lessons on gender between 5-10 can include basic biological and sociological factors, and it will definitely harm children who do not fit neatly into the gender understanding of the majority. The policy is just bad, and I don't think any amount of effort can redeem it.

3. Establishes the International Education Authority, it’s goal shall be:

A. To provide students safe learning environments where all are accepted, and none subjected to any political perspectives within their education, instead encouraging students to educate themselves on such matters, and form their own opinions.
What is political? Is "the women's rights movement was won by activism" political? Is it political to say that unions protect workers? It's definitely a political perspective to state that a party believes X and another believes Y. "The French Revolution was fought over the power allocated between a land-holding and an emerging capitalist class" includes several political perspectives. You have outlawed at least history, civics, sociology, political science, etc., and replaced it with "educate yourself" which we have seen the results of in the US.

To sum up, this draft is not viable. That may seem harsh to you, but doesn't make it any less true. You clearly jumped into drafting with little knowledge and experience of the GA, but it's a forum built over decades, with precedents and secret handshakes which makes it imposing for newcomers. However, those things are not impossible to learn. I would suggest you abandon this attempt and instead familiarise yourself with the drafting process, engage with other experienced people, and stick around for a few months before trying again. While I criticise your current draft, there is nothing in it that suggests to me that you can't learn the game and present one that can succeed.


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Anne of Cleves in TNP
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Postby Anne of Cleves in TNP » Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:16 am

OOC: On a preliminary read if this draft, I feel that the original poster should know about GAR#103 and especially GAR#603 (yes, it’s still in effect). Accordingly, sections A and C in clause 2 should be removed to enhance the legality of this proposal. I may have to search the current draft later on and point out some more stuff, which is why I only did a preliminary read for now.
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Deropia
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[DRAFT] Morality in Education

Postby Deropia » Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:44 am

"Completely unworkable for the reasons outlined by the delegation from Attempted Socialism. I don't think we'd be able to support this in any form."
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Divinusland
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Postby Divinusland » Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:32 am

Macadia wrote:

Morality in Education


The World Assembly,

ACKNOWLEDGING, that the youth of the World Assembly’s member-states are, indeed, the future of this body,

BELIEVING, that therefore, the education of the youth of WA nations is within the greatest interests of all constituents,

Hereby enacts the following:

1. For the purpose of this resolution, the following terms are defined:

A. A “school” is defined as a primary or secondary educational center intended specifically for instruction on academic subjects, (i.e mathematics, literature, science, etc.)

B. “Inappropriate content” is defined as content, whether lessons, books, or any other materials available in schools that is intended for children despite being improper for innocent children to be taught upon, as well as topics that are inherently immoral for children to be educated on: (violence and abuse, lessons and discourse relating to sexually explicit content, etc.)

C. Within the context of the protections and prohibitions of this resolution, and to avoid any contradiction, “students” will apply to any child within an educational system under the age of 10 years of age, and over 5 years of age, this is to ensure that this resolution has no interference with sex education.

2. Establishes regulations within the curricula of educational systems within WA nations:

A. Education on topics such as drugs, and their negative impacts will be strengthened and required for students, to ensure their own health and safety.

B. Education on topics such as bullying and discrimination will be required and reinforced to ensure that students are wary of their own actions, and the effects they have on their peers. Schools will also be required to provide these students with the resources they need to ensure their mental health, such as counseling.

C. Prohibits the education upon, and the discourse on, topics relating to sexually explicit and inappropriate content. This includes any sexuality, heterosexual or homosexual, and any lessons on gender.

3. Establishes the International Education Authority, it’s goal shall be:

A. To provide students safe learning environments where all are accepted, and none subjected to any political perspectives within their education, instead encouraging students to educate themselves on such matters, and form their own opinions.


I would appreciate it if a mod moved this to the GA forum, I know this is not the correct one.
PLEASE provide actual feedback, preferably not just harsh, fruitless, criticisms.


Honestly your text is completely wrong.

First you need to define the difference between teaching and education, because they are completely different things.

Second, you need to decide whether or not to address sensitive issues, such as: sexuality, drug dealing, drug use, abortion.

Third, and this I consider to be your biggest mistake, you do not clearly define what type of school you are referring to, because there are different types of school education.

I personally think that your proposal is only for schools of a religious nature, for me this does not apply to schools without a religious focus.

So before submitting the proposal I would look very closely at this.

Because certainly the proposal as it is, I believe it will have a lot of difficulty to pass.

with all due respect

King Dinisius Hermes Augustus XXXVI, of the nation of Divinusland.
Last edited by Divinusland on Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Catholic America
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Postby Catholic America » Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:35 am

This could be difficult to pass, but a good idea to get more support would be to add a clause about allowing non explicit sex ed, as the GA might be more open to that. I would vote for this if it was to be brought to the floor.
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Anne of Cleves in TNP
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Postby Anne of Cleves in TNP » Sun Jul 03, 2022 3:55 pm

OOC: On a secondary read, I have developed three additional complaints. First of all, it would be nice if the OP defined some additional terms, such as ‘innocent children’. Second, not only is part 2c potentially illegal (see my first comment), but since this provision bans discourse of sexuality in elementary schools (including homosexuality), any IC nation with any national recognition event similar to Pride Month irl would not support this proposal. And third, do we really need an international committee to ensure safe learning environments? National governments can just manage that by themselves, you know. Just saying. ;)
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Postby Ardiveds » Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:38 am

This includes any sexuality, heterosexual or homosexual, and any lessons on gender.

"Remove this or restrict it to primary education and we might consider this seriously.
Alternatively, write the above clause in such a way that this applies to it:
Within the context of the protections and prohibitions of this resolution, and to avoid any contradiction, “students” will apply to any child within an educational system under the age of 10 years of age, and over 5 years of age, this is to ensure that this resolution has no interference with sex education.

That way, it's restricted to 10 year olds and younger."
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Postby Separatist Peoples » Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:22 am

"Opposed. Your 'moral' framework is fundementally at odds with our own, and therefore doesn't make any sense as the basis of international law. Gee, if only there was a theory of law that disregarded the vast majority of moral judgments and instead addressed empirical problems plaguing nations..."

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Sierra Lyricalia
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Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:40 am

"I echo Ambassador Bell's statement in its entirety. 'Someone please think of the children' is the eternal cry of those who seek to oppress and indoctrinate those younger than they are, producing cultish drones and mindless clones, all in the name of 'protecting' them. Some protection! The best way to improve this draft is to compost it, ambassador. Let it do some good feeding a garden someplace."
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Macadia
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Postby Macadia » Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:54 pm

“After seeing just how opposed almost every nation present is, we have decided to scrap this resolution entirely, perhaps it will be more ironed out, and finessed in the future to address what Macadia believes to be a major issue within the education of the modern youths. Thanks to all ambassadors for their feedback, perhaps this seemingly universally hated draft should have never seen the light of day.”
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FORMAL NOTICE OF NON-COMPLIANCE

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Outer Sparta
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Postby Outer Sparta » Tue Jul 05, 2022 3:20 pm

Ambassador Tav: Morality is a subjective definition. How would it be policed? How would one truly determine what's right and wrong. This sort of legislation belongs in your own parliament rather than in the halls of the WA.
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Simone Republic
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Postby Simone Republic » Wed Jul 06, 2022 1:34 am

I am also opposed on the grounds that I suspect we have differing standards on what constitutes "morality".
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Daarwyrth
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Postby Daarwyrth » Thu Jul 07, 2022 2:36 pm

Representative Wentapelloven takes a glance at the formal notice of non-compliance that the Macadian ambassador has attached to their forehead with an expression of annoyance. "Perhaps we shouldn't even have paid this farce of a draft any attention in the first place. In fact, Ambassador, perhaps you shouldn't even think about posting drafts or try to engage with the World Assembly if your nation is going to be openly non-compliant. Considering your national economy is being annihilated by sanctions at the moment, you should be concerned with returning your nation into a state of compliance first before even thinking of posting another draft."

Wentapelloven smirks derisively. "Really, Ambassador, your statement of non-compliance is pathetic and quite frankly dumb. You have plunged your nation into an economic crisis headfirst. Dumb, dumb, dumb..."
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Macadia
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Postby Macadia » Thu Jul 07, 2022 3:47 pm

Daarwyrth wrote:Representative Wentapelloven takes a glance at the formal notice of non-compliance that the Macadian ambassador has attached to their forehead with an expression of annoyance. "Perhaps we shouldn't even have paid this farce of a draft any attention in the first place. In fact, Ambassador, perhaps you shouldn't even think about posting drafts or try to engage with the World Assembly if your nation is going to be openly non-compliant. Considering your national economy is being annihilated by sanctions at the moment, you should be concerned with returning your nation into a state of compliance first before even thinking of posting another draft."

Wentapelloven smirks derisively. "Really, Ambassador, your statement of non-compliance is pathetic and quite frankly dumb. You have plunged your nation into an economic crisis headfirst. Dumb, dumb, dumb..."

“Unfortunately, Ambassador, our decision has been commended by the few who can see just how greatly the World Assembly has erred. This draft has been scrapped, and this is just a sad attempt to make us feel bad for protecting the freedom of conscience every student should enjoy.”

“No matter what you may say, Macadia will endure.”
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FORMAL NOTICE OF NON-COMPLIANCE

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