What are yalls thoughts on Farms

[Krasny-Volny]

Human nature is overrated.

And not letting our children die to starvation or preventable disease isnt “coddling”.

How about you get off the computer and go live as a hunter gatherer?

It's not even just about human nature ... It's about paleolithic living simply being a superior way of living overall. Life expectancy is usually 30 years (the best years of your life, keep in mind), no dealing with the health problems that come with older age. Food is extremely nutritious, you are forced to be healthy (can you complain?). You get up when you want to, you sleep when you want to. And when you are awake, you do what you want to do!

Oh but of course. You can just go to burger king and buy a whopper and a large sprite for like ten bucks if you are hungry! Life is great, right?

As for children dying within 5 years, it sucks and is unfortunate! Yeah, but it is extremely necessary. Unless we manage to find a way to never birth weak children this is how we would remain an adequate species. If down the road this system collapses, and we are left with a world of limp wristed urbanites who see the light of day a total of one hour every week... yeah we're going extinct. Or at least a hefty chunk of our population is going away.

And funny you say that. I'd love to join a tribe and learn to hunt/gather, except you have to pay for property to roam on, where I live...

Where do you live? In the US and Canada there are vast, vast swathes of public lands you can wander to your heart’s content with almost no restrictions. I’m involved in the private forestry sector and have known people personally who live like gypsies on US forest service or BLM lands. If you wish to be a wandering thru-hiker and live off what you hunt and fish and withdraw from modern society, it is feasible to do so.

[Universil-Unoyz Wintarros]

Where do you live? In the US and Canada there are vast, vast swathes of public lands you can wander to your heart’s content with almost no restrictions. I’m involved in the private forestry sector and have known people personally who live like gypsies on US forest service or BLM lands. If you wish to be a wandering thru-hiker and live off what you hunt and fish and withdraw from modern society, it is feasible to do so.

Looks like you’re right, there’s a lot of public land around.
If I am gonna hunt and gather, it’ll be because nothing else worked out or interested me in this current system. I would rather do this with a group of people but if nothing else works out then this would be my sort of safety net.

[The Holy Therns]

If I build four of them and one barracks, I can progress to the next level.

[Heloin]

Where do you live? In the US and Canada there are vast, vast swathes of public lands you can wander to your heart’s content with almost no restrictions. I’m involved in the private forestry sector and have known people personally who live like gypsies on US forest service or BLM lands. If you wish to be a wandering thru-hiker and live off what you hunt and fish and withdraw from modern society, it is feasible to do so.

Looks like you’re right, there’s a lot of public land around.
If I am gonna hunt and gather, it’ll be because nothing else worked out or interested me in this current system. I would rather do this with a group of people but if nothing else works out then this would be my sort of safety net.

If you want to pretend it's a better way to live then do it, no one's stopping you. Don't pretend you want to live like that then back down the second you're told you can, go off and live the "better life" you think you'll get.

[Heloin]

If I build four of them and one barracks, I can progress to the next level.

*The Holy Therns has advanced to the Feudal age*

[Universil-Unoyz Wintarros]

How do I not know what I'm talking about? Is it that I havent weighed the drawbacks of a post industrial/agrarian society...? Because I have, and I view many of these drawbacks more as benefits.

The ability to form an opinion on something doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. Ted Kaczynski held these exact same beliefs, he was wrong then (along with everything else he did) and you're wrong now.

And can you reference to me where I said we're going to abandon farming in 100 years? I did say globalism would probably collapse, likely further down the line, but never did I ever say we are going to abandon farming. If I did then it was a mistake.

My bad actually I misread a point you made. Though now that you're advocating for a return to a hunter gatherer way of living it looks like my assumption wasn't that off.

It's not even just about human nature ... It's about paleolithic living simply being a superior way of living overall. Life expectancy is usually 30 years (the best years of your life, keep in mind), no dealing with the health problems that come with older age. Food is extremely nutritious, you are forced to be healthy (can you complain?). You get up when you want to, you sleep when you want to. And when you are awake, you do what you want to do!

This is a lie. Average human life expectancy was extremely short because that statistic is drastically reduced by child mortality. Humans in hunter gatherer societies could live well into their 60s and even 70s. That you suggest humans weren't expected to live that long is little more than showing a lack of understanding of anthropology.

Oh but of course. You can just go to burger king and buy a whopper and a large sprite for like ten bucks if you are hungry! Life is great, right?

You've never lived in a society where that isn't an option have you?

As for children dying within 5 years, it sucks and is unfortunate! Yeah, but it is extremely necessary. Unless we manage to find a way to never birth weak children this is how we would remain an adequate species. If down the road this system collapses, and we are left with a world of limp wristed urbanites who see the light of day a total of one hour every week... yeah we're going extinct. Or at least a hefty chunk of our population is going away.

What you are advocating for here is called eugenics.

And funny you say that. I'd love to join a tribe and learn to hunt/gather, except you have to pay for property to roam on, where I live...

There is nothing stopping you from heading to South Africa or Namibia right now and living with the Khoisan.

1. What? Explain yourself. How is ted k wrong? I hope youve read his writings.
2. Ties in with above. You’re making pointless personal attacks.
3. Oh? That makes sense, guess i was wrong. Also lmfoa
4. We work for food anyway except we don’t directly reap the benefits of the work. We just get some money to spend it on whatever by doing some bullshit that we may or may not actually care about.
5. I’m aware
6. Ehhh no. Also see myabove post.

[Universil-Unoyz Wintarros]

Looks like you’re right, there’s a lot of public land around.
If I am gonna hunt and gather, it’ll be because nothing else worked out or interested me in this current system. I would rather do this with a group of people but if nothing else works out then this would be my sort of safety net.

If you want to pretend it's a better way to live then do it, no one's stopping you. Don't pretend you want to live like that then back down the second you're told you can, go off and live the "better life" you think you'll get.

Nah I really have been considering it. It’s easy to think I’m pussying out but I just can’t see myself doing things the traditional way.
Before I even think about getting lost I want to first learn whatever i need to know in order to be successful. So, sorry, but I can’t just move away like you want me to.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Farms are good and cool. Corner stone of all civilization.

[Sherechia]

Just a personal opinion, while I believe that international trade is nice, a country must be food self-sufficient for national security reasons. Global trade is fragile, it all can be disrupted by embargo, regional conflicts, some random ship that decided to Tokyo drift in a canal. This is why protecting local farmers and farms is very important as they are the key to a free independent country that won't end up like North Korea in the 90s.

This semi-autarky of important goods like food, water, fuel, electricity, healthcare is the trade policy of Sherechia, trade free but make sure you can sustain yourself if the trading stops.

[Katganistan]

This doesn't make sense, sorry. If God meant man to fly, we'd have wings -- but we didn't, and created gliders, airplanes, etc.

If God meant man not to die of smallpox, we'd be naturally immune -- but instead we created a vaccine.

God gave us brains to use them.

Indeed. Mine is doing a wonderful job as a Paperweight.

I thought surely a hatrack, my ovine friend?

[Heloin]

The ability to form an opinion on something doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. Ted Kaczynski held these exact same beliefs, he was wrong then (along with everything else he did) and you're wrong now.


My bad actually I misread a point you made. Though now that you're advocating for a return to a hunter gatherer way of living it looks like my assumption wasn't that off.


This is a lie. Average human life expectancy was extremely short because that statistic is drastically reduced by child mortality. Humans in hunter gatherer societies could live well into their 60s and even 70s. That you suggest humans weren't expected to live that long is little more than showing a lack of understanding of anthropology.


You've never lived in a society where that isn't an option have you?


What you are advocating for here is called eugenics.


There is nothing stopping you from heading to South Africa or Namibia right now and living with the Khoisan.

1. What? Explain yourself. How is ted k wrong? I hope youve read his writings.

Agreeing with him is a big red flag that you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

2. Ties in with above. You’re making pointless personal attacks.

It really doesn't. I admitted that you haven't said such in the past but that you are currently promoting that as a lifestyle now makes it obvious where my confusion came from.

3. Oh? That makes sense, guess i was wrong. Also lmfoa

You're understanding of anthropology and human habitation in hunter gatherer societies clearly needs massive work.

4. We work for food anyway except we don’t directly reap the benefits of the work. We just get some money to spend it on whatever by doing some bullshit that we may or may not actually care about.

And? I've cut off a live chickens head for dinner, I've gone to Wendy's for chicken nuggets. One of these options is far more preferable.

5. I’m aware

You clearly aren't otherwise you wouldn't be supporting something that is made up pseudoscience.

6. Ehhh no. Also see myabove post.

If you want to pretend it's a better way to live then do it, no one's stopping you. Don't pretend you want to live like that then back down the second you're told you can, go off and live the "better life" you think you'll get.

Nah I really have been considering it. It’s easy to think I’m pussying out but I just can’t see myself doing things the traditional way.
Before I even think about getting lost I want to first learn whatever i need to know in order to be successful. So, sorry, but I can’t just move away like you want me to.

Yes you can. Nothing is stopping you. Go full into the wild since you suggest it's a better way to live. According to you if you don't make it it's just because you where never meant to.

[Universil-Unoyz Wintarros]

1. What? Explain yourself. How is ted k wrong? I hope youve read his writings.

Agreeing with him is a big red flag that you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

2. Ties in with above. You’re making pointless personal attacks.

It really doesn't. I admitted that you haven't said such in the past but that you are currently promoting that as a lifestyle now makes it obvious where my confusion came from.

3. Oh? That makes sense, guess i was wrong. Also lmfoa

You're understanding of anthropology and human habitation in hunter gatherer societies clearly needs massive work.

4. We work for food anyway except we don’t directly reap the benefits of the work. We just get some money to spend it on whatever by doing some bullshit that we may or may not actually care about.

And? I've cut off a live chickens head for dinner, I've gone to Wendy's for chicken nuggets. One of these options is far more preferable.

5. I’m aware

You clearly aren't otherwise you wouldn't be supporting something that is made up pseudoscience.

6. Ehhh no. Also see myabove post.

Nah I really have been considering it. It’s easy to think I’m pussying out but I just can’t see myself doing things the traditional way.
Before I even think about getting lost I want to first learn whatever i need to know in order to be successful. So, sorry, but I can’t just move away like you want me to.

Yes you can. Nothing is stopping you. Go full into the wild since you suggest it's a better way to live. According to you if you don't make it it's just because you where never meant to.

I suspect you're trolling at this point. You provide absolutely no base for any of your claims to an extent where it is almost comedic. I can't even refute it, it's like punching a pool of water.
Example:
How is agreeing with Ted K a big red flag for me not knowing what I'm talking about?
Refutation: He's a bad guy, a terrorist, and he didn't know what he was talking about.

Of course maybe you would have said something slightly different than that, but maybe, hopefully, you get my point: I am having a difficult time arguing with you. Thus concludes our discussion.

[Andrew Country 12]

Since I do not grow all my own food, I benefit from commercial agriculture. I hope to someday in the near future own my own home with a plot of land that can be used for a home garden, but that is still a few years off. I don't envision myself living a subsistence lifestyle any time soon. In any case, the agriculture system, and the public policies that shape it, provide a great deal of stability to everyone involved.

Hydroponics have been mentioned a lot in this thread, but I am hesitant to embrace them as an end-all--save-all solution. There are tomato farms that operate this way on an industrial scale. There have also been attempts at this that have failed, due to high operation costs. These are energy-intensive operations, and require substantial fertilizer inputs, since there are no stored nutrients in soil to draw from. Vertical farming also has the added cost of lighting, and growing year-round usually requires some form of heating. While hydroponics may put less of a strain on local water resources, keep in mind that the additional inputs often require a considerable amount of water to produce, and certainly have a considerable amount of CO2 emissions from them.

I am not saying that hydroponics do not have potential. However, I think it is important to ask questions like, "would requiring oil and gas to reuse produced water instead of continuing to truck in clean water daily, having fewer green lawns in the cities, and employing more efficient irrigation methods in traditional agriculture, be a more cost-effective approach to maintaining a sustainable food supply?"

[Greater Cesnica]

What kind of a question is this lol. Of course we like farms. Farms represent the backbone of civilization. Despite that, I believe hunting should have an important place as long as we consume meat.

[Heloin]

Agreeing with him is a big red flag that you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.


It really doesn't. I admitted that you haven't said such in the past but that you are currently promoting that as a lifestyle now makes it obvious where my confusion came from.


You're understanding of anthropology and human habitation in hunter gatherer societies clearly needs massive work.


And? I've cut off a live chickens head for dinner, I've gone to Wendy's for chicken nuggets. One of these options is far more preferable.


You clearly aren't otherwise you wouldn't be supporting something that is made up pseudoscience.



Yes you can. Nothing is stopping you. Go full into the wild since you suggest it's a better way to live. According to you if you don't make it it's just because you where never meant to.

I suspect you're trolling at this point. You provide absolutely no base for any of your claims to an extent where it is almost comedic. I can't even refute it, it's like punching a pool of water.
Example:
How is agreeing with Ted K a big red flag for me not knowing what I'm talking about?
Refutation: He's a bad guy, a terrorist, and he didn't know what he was talking about.

Of course maybe you would have said something slightly different than that, but maybe, hopefully, you get my point: I am having a difficult time arguing with you. Thus concludes our discussion.

Hey if you want to support eugenics and terrorists be my guest. Run off into the woods and live the life you think you should be living. If your not going to do that then why keep pretending you support the idea.

And if you think I’m trolling report me. Don’t act like your high and mighty by calling me a troll.

[Krasny-Volny]

If you want to pretend it's a better way to live then do it, no one's stopping you. Don't pretend you want to live like that then back down the second you're told you can, go off and live the "better life" you think you'll get.

Nah I really have been considering it. It’s easy to think I’m pussying out but I just can’t see myself doing things the traditional way.
Before I even think about getting lost I want to first learn whatever i need to know in order to be successful. So, sorry, but I can’t just move away like you want me to.

People do just go for it all the time. Ever heard of the story of Chris McCandless?

If you’re serious about wanting to learn what you need to survive, sign on with a public lands agency. It’s seasonal work that’ll pretty much take anybody. They need trails crews, backcountry maintenance people, rangers, outfitters, and wildland firefighters. It’s seasonal work and in the case of some of the forest service crews I’ve encountered you work an 8-6 schedule, camping deep in the wilderness at your worksite for 8 days on, then 6 days of R&R. That’s the schedule I’m on right now.

This will help you adjust to that kind of lifestyle and teach you how to survive in the wilderness without just going unprepared “cold turkey”. You’ll also be on a crew of other people who will look out for you. As a result of having this job, I had to learn backcountry first aid techniques, how to filter and bleach my drinking water, how to deal with hostile wildlife, and how to navigate with a compass in the woods where there’s no cell service or GPS signal. Those people I told you about, who I know live gypsy lifestyles on public lands? Two of them were my former supervisors. They worked in the woods for so long they were actually more comfortable just living like a nomad out there instead of returning to civilization.

Me? I like indoor heating and flush toilets too much, but if society ever collapsed or I ran out of other options I can rest easy knowing I can just pick up my tent, gather my backcountry gear, and go live in the woods.

I can’t tell if you’re serious about wanting to make this lifestyle change, but if you are that’s my recommendation. Get a job like mine. Come work for the forest service or BLM.

[New haven america]

Human nature is overrated.

And not letting our children die to starvation or preventable disease isnt “coddling”.

How about you get off the computer and go live as a hunter gatherer?

It's not even just about human nature ... It's about paleolithic living simply being a superior way of living overall. 1. Life expectancy is usually 30 years (the best years of your life, keep in mind), 2. no dealing with the health problems that come with older age. 3. Food is extremely nutritious, you are forced to be healthy (can you complain?). 4. You get up when you want to, you sleep when you want to. And when you are awake, you do what you want to do!

Oh but of course. You can just go to burger king and buy a whopper and a large sprite for like ten bucks if you are hungry! Life is great, right?

As for children dying within 5 years, it sucks and is unfortunate! Yeah, but it is extremely necessary. Unless we manage to find a way to never birth weak children this is how we would remain an adequate species. If down the road this system collapses, and we are left with a world of limp wristed urbanites who see the light of day a total of one hour every week... yeah we're going extinct. Or at least a hefty chunk of our population is going away.

And funny you say that. I'd love to join a tribe and learn to hunt/gather, except you have to pay for property to roam on, where I live...

1. No, actually. Once a human makes is out of childhood the average lifespan in 60-70 years. The 30 year lifespan is due to infant mortality messing with the averages.
2. Refer to point 2 as to why this idea is wrong.
3. Actually, food today is far healthier and in greater supply than when humans were hunter/gatherers. The average human was actually a lot shorter thousands of years ago than they are today and that's all because of nutrition. (For reference, the average male height 1000 years ago was ~5'5'', the average height for modern women, while now it's 5'8''-6' depending on the area)
4. Not true, even in pre-historic times humans had sleep schedules they had to keep for hunting purposes and group protection reasons.

[Universil-Unoyz Wintarros]

People do just go for it all the time. Ever heard of the story of Chris McCandless?

If you’re serious about wanting to learn what you need to survive, sign on with a public lands agency. It’s seasonal work that’ll pretty much take anybody. They need trails crews, backcountry maintenance people, rangers, outfitters, and wildland firefighters. It’s seasonal work and in the case of some of the forest service crews I’ve encountered you work an 8-6 schedule, camping deep in the wilderness at your worksite for 8 days on, then 6 days of R&R. That’s the schedule I’m on right now.

This will help you adjust to that kind of lifestyle and teach you how to survive in the wilderness without just going unprepared “cold turkey”. You’ll also be on a crew of other people who will look out for you. As a result of having this job, I had to learn backcountry first aid techniques, how to filter and bleach my drinking water, how to deal with hostile wildlife, and how to navigate with a compass in the woods where there’s no cell service or GPS signal. Those people I told you about, who I know live gypsy lifestyles on public lands? Two of them were my former supervisors. They worked in the woods for so long they were actually more comfortable just living like a nomad out there instead of returning to civilization.

Me? I like indoor heating and flush toilets too much, but if society ever collapsed or I ran out of other options I can rest easy knowing I can just pick up my tent, gather my backcountry gear, and go live in the woods.

I can’t tell if you’re serious about wanting to make this lifestyle change, but if you are that’s my recommendation. Get a job like mine. Come work for the forest service or BLM.

Im already learning to forage and identifying plants, etc. since I'm still in school right now. I may be doing a one month excursion in Wyoming this summer and have been looking into wildland firefighting... But yeah I will look into what you recommended, cos I really wouldn't mind working in the forests. You really piqued my interest lol.

1. No, actually. Once a human makes is out of childhood the average lifespan in 60-70 years. The 30 year lifespan is due to infant mortality messing with the averages.
2. Refer to point 2 as to why this idea is wrong.
3. Actually, food today is far healthier and in greater supply than when humans were hunter/gatherers. The average human was actually a lot shorter thousands of years ago than they are today and that's all because of nutrition. (For reference, the average male height 1000 years ago was ~5'5'', the average height for modern women, while now it's 5'8''-6' depending on the area)
4. Not true, even in pre-historic times humans had sleep schedules they had to keep for hunting purposes and group protection reasons.

1. and 2. already addressed
3. Food today is packed more with nutrients, carbs fats and protein, maybe That is true. But the wild foods we ate back then were jam packed with vitamins, minerals, etc. which even interacted with our gut in varying manners. Think about how a lot of roots (like garlic and dandelion roots) are used today as natural remedies... also keep in mind that back then food was a little scarce too. Just enough for us to be very physically active, for hours every day.
I really wouldn't say modern food is healthy...
4. Yeah we had natural wake/sleep schedules. These schedules weren't nearly as static as they are today because we did not have any clocks back then other than the Sun.

[Adamede]

Human nature is overrated.

And not letting our children die to starvation or preventable disease isnt “coddling”.

How about you get off the computer and go live as a hunter gatherer?

It's not even just about human nature ... It's about paleolithic living simply being a superior way of living overall. Life expectancy is usually 30 years (the best years of your life, keep in mind), no dealing with the health problems that come with older age. Food is extremely nutritious, you are forced to be healthy (can you complain?). You get up when you want to, you sleep when you want to. And when you are awake, you do what you want to do!

Oh but of course. You can just go to burger king and buy a whopper and a large sprite for like ten bucks if you are hungry! Life is great, right?

As for children dying within 5 years, it sucks and is unfortunate! Yeah, but it is extremely necessary. Unless we manage to find a way to never birth weak children this is how we would remain an adequate species. If down the road this system collapses, and we are left with a world of limp wristed urbanites who see the light of day a total of one hour every week... yeah we're going extinct. Or at least a hefty chunk of our population is going away.

And funny you say that. I'd love to join a tribe and learn to hunt/gather, except you have to pay for property to roam on, where I live...

What a dumb, sheltered 1st world thing to say.

Again, I repeat myself. Get off your damn computer, grab a rock, and go live in forest.

Jesus fucking Christ do you even hear what you’re saying?

[Esternial]

Human nature is overrated.

And not letting our children die to starvation or preventable disease isnt “coddling”.

How about you get off the computer and go live as a hunter gatherer?

It's not even just about human nature ... It's about paleolithic living simply being a superior way of living overall. Life expectancy is usually 30 years (the best years of your life, keep in mind), no dealing with the health problems that come with older age. Food is extremely nutritious, you are forced to be healthy (can you complain?). You get up when you want to, you sleep when you want to. And when you are awake, you do what you want to do!

Feel free to have that opinion, but in no way can you argue that Paleolithic living is objectively the best way to live one's life.

For one, people that enjoy pursuing scientific research would rather dedicate more years of their life to enriching their knowledge. The notion that the only things that matter in life is being in mint physical condition and eating/sleeping/shitting on demand is a bit...well...aspiring to be the adult equivalent of a toddler is a bit depressing to me.

Also you'd have to spend a substantial portion of your day acquiring food, which to me is not "you do what you want to do". Having a reliable source of food means you can spend more of your time doing what you want to do, and in my own case I'm also fortunate enough to have a job that I enjoy and is intellectually stimulating.

[Lapis Lazului]

This doesn't make sense, sorry. If God meant man to fly, we'd have wings -- but we didn't, and created gliders, airplanes, etc.

If God meant man not to die of smallpox, we'd be naturally immune -- but instead we created a vaccine.

God gave us brains to use them.

Indeed. Mine is doing a wonderful job as a Paperweight.

Your brain is being used as a paperweight?

[The Blaatschapen]

Indeed. Mine is doing a wonderful job as a Paperweight.

Your brain is being used as a paperweight?

The one that God gave me, yes. It was a nice graduation gift

The one that I was born with, I use for other stuff.

[Hurdergaryp]

Your brain is being used as a paperweight?

The one that God gave me, yes. It was a nice graduation gift

The one that I was born with, I use for other stuff.

So you're thinking with the neural network created by evolution instead of God's piece of repurposed clay? Smart choice.