How to convince people that more immigration is good?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Also IRL Rojava is the epitome of evil in Syria

You're heading off topic.

What say you to my idea to tax emigrants? Those traitors want to give up US citizenship and go some place else, they'll have to pay the tax.

[Unified German-State]

Remember that most people calling you beta or soyboy are a bunch of 300-lbs NEETs who are supposedly 25 but combines the worst aspects of a toddler, a middle-aged man, and an old man, physically and mentally. These very people are below beta, that's why they call you that

Good job bro you got none of those correct but good effort

[Unified German-State]

Also IRL Rojava is the epitome of evil in Syria

You're heading off topic.

What say you to my idea to tax emigrants? Those traitors want to give up US citizenship and go some place else, they'll have to pay the tax.

Nope. Everyone should evacuate from the United States for free. Problem?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Remember that most people calling you beta or soyboy are a bunch of 300-lbs NEETs who are supposedly 25 but combines the worst aspects of a toddler, a middle-aged man, and an old man, physically and mentally. These very people are below beta, that's why they call you that

In Huxley's Brave New World, those below Betas are Gammas.

[Unified German-State]

Remember that most people calling you beta or soyboy are a bunch of 300-lbs NEETs who are supposedly 25 but combines the worst aspects of a toddler, a middle-aged man, and an old man, physically and mentally. These very people are below beta, that's why they call you that

In Huxley's Brave New World, those below Betas are Gammas.

Thank god I'm the purebred human at the top telling all you moleman freaks to stroke my giant administrative cock

[Nobel Hobos 2]

You're heading off topic.

What say you to my idea to tax emigrants? Those traitors want to give up US citizenship and go some place else, they'll have to pay the tax.

Nope. Everyone should evacuate from the United States for free. Problem?

It might be sooner than you think. Debt per citizen doubles when the population halves, and who wants to be the last one trying to hold all of America's land against $20 Trillion worth of foreign creditors?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

In Huxley's Brave New World, those below Betas are Gammas.

Thank god I'm the purebred human at the top telling all you moleman freaks to stroke my giant administrative cock

You haven't read the book I take it.

[HXVZ-07031017]

In Huxley's Brave New World, those below Betas are Gammas.

Thank god I'm the purebred human at the top telling all you moleman freaks to stroke my giant administrative cock

Listen here you little gamma
Aight let's stop it at that this thread is a dumpster fire

[New yugoslavaia]

I just want to know what he has against Rojava.

[Unified German-State]

I just want to know what he has against Rojava.

replace fsa soyjak with sdf soyjak

[Greater Miami Shores]

I got into an argument about immigration this morning, and now this has been rattling around my head for the afternoon. Assume we want more immigration - how do we best convince skeptical voters and institutions to create the political change for it?

In this essay, The Economist notes a couple different strategies for convincing people of the need for more immigration:

- Personal stories. People generally relate more to personal stories—such as that of Paulette Wilson, a retired cook who previously worked at the House of Commons, who was wrongly arrested and threatened with deportation by the British government—than to dry statistics.

- Social contact. Fear of “the other” tends to dissipate when people get to know each other. So getting people to mix more would help.

- Appeal to emotions. Opponents of immigration whip up fear and hate. As well as appealing to compassion for immigrants, supporters could tap into patriotism, arguing how openness makes a country great.

- Emphasise what unites us. Diversity is great; so is what people in a particular place have in common.

- Appeal to other people’s values. Liberal values such as individual freedom and equal rights leave some people cold. But Trump voters may be swayed by stories about immigrants who fought for America; traditionalists may be persuaded by highlighting how Latino immigrants share their family values.

- Address people’s underlying concerns. As well as pointing out that immigrants aren’t to blame for unemployment, stagnant wages or stretched public services, politicians need to implement policies to address these problems.

In particular, social contact is recognized as a high potential strategy. People who identify with immigrants and encounter them in their daily lives are less likely to support immigration restrictions. Big cities, with more migrants, are more supportive of immigration than small towns and other areas that receive comparably few. They note that the familiarity strategy has worked well with same-sex marriage- as the percentage of people that know a homosexual person increased, so too did acceptance for that group. However, they also note a drawback for this strategy applied to immigration. Same-sex marriage acceptance imposes essentially no costs on individuals opposed to it, whereas more open immigration has greater perceived costs, even if the exact reality of those costs is debated.

Let's try not to debate the question- there are plenty of other threads where you can argue for your preferred level of immigration. We've all had that argument, we know logical points each side is going to make. Let's focus on the meta-debate one step up from that. Assuming that we want more immigration, what's the best way to convince people of it, either rhetorically or through policy?

For what it's worth, my argument this morning focused on addressing underlying concerns & personal stories, with a dash of appeal to emotion.

There is a big difference between illegal immigration and legal immigration the right way. All my family and I emigrated to the USA from the eternal communist socialist dictatorship shit hole nation regime of Cuba legally the right way.

We met the requirements all nations have, took the physical exams all nations have, and waited our turn in the shit hole nation of Cuba for x numbers of years. We did not emigrate illegally and say now you have to make me legal. We did not emigrate illegally, have kids born in the USA, and say my Kids are Americans now you have to make me legal, this is why birthrate citizenship needs to end.

All nations deport illegals even Mexico.

Real asylum is not for economic immigration reasons, you don't make asylum laws easier to make illegals qualify as legal, this is supporting illegal immigration. You don't provide a path to citizenship and say you are against illegal immigration, you have just made illegals legal.

This is not immigration reform, this is not illegal immigration reform.

Asylum is being abused all over the world, as an excuse for open borders illegal immigration.

There is a big difference between illegal immigration and legal immigration the right way, apply in your nations of origin, meet the requirements all nations have, take the medical exams all nations have, and wait your turn, including in shit hole nations like Cuba.

Legal immigration is legal immigration with all their rights respected, and illegal immigration is illegal immigration, and should not be tolerated, it is this easy to do and understand.

As passed by laws.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Immigration in itself isn't bad. It's the refusal to assimilate that is.

Tread carefully. Some people think that expecting assimilation is bigoted.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Immigration in itself isn't bad. It's the refusal to assimilate that is.

Tread carefully. Some people think that expecting assimilation is bigoted.

"Expecting" assimilation implies some time-frame (in years, or generations) after which the immigrant or descendant is supposed to be fully assimilated.

"Encouraging" assimilation is a more positive approach. If they assimilate in a year, great (though to me it implies a rather shallow person, but whatever, some people are shallow). If they haven't assimilated after two generations, you don't say "time's up, assimilate or we're deporting you" ... which you can't do anyway ... or were you thinking re-education camp? There basically aren't any options to force that rare person or family who don't assimilate, to do so. You can only keep encouraging them.

Tell me some way you can "expect" something, without some kind of deadline, and I'll agree it's not bigoted.

[The Reformed American Republic]

Tread carefully. Some people think that expecting assimilation is bigoted.

"Expecting" assimilation implies some time-frame (in years, or generations) after which the immigrant or descendant is supposed to be fully assimilated.

"Encouraging" assimilation is a more positive approach. If they assimilate in a year, great (though to me it implies a rather shallow person, but whatever, some people are shallow). If they haven't assimilated after two generations, you don't say "time's up, assimilate or we're deporting you" ... which you can't do anyway ... or were you thinking re-education camp? There basically aren't any options to force that rare person or family who don't assimilate, to do so. You can only keep encouraging them.

Tell me some way you can "expect" something, without some kind of deadline, and I'll agree it's not bigoted.

By expecting assimilation, I expect that immigrant groups at least attempt to partially assimilate into the dominant culture over time, and if that isn't going to happen due to them having no interest, then the borders become more restrictive. I don't have hard deadlines here.

[New yugoslavaia]

I just want to know what he has against Rojava.

replace fsa soyjak with sdf soyjak

So they’re bad because they don’t like Islam?

[Greater Miami Shores]

Immigration is good, but must be limited to not exceed the amount the society can handle and it needs to be done legal. No matter your story, illegal means immediate return back. Another thing is integration. If they decide to not integrate and instead shit on the country they are in, you shall be returned to the country you apparently prefer. You don’t want to learn the language? Too bad for you.

How to convince more immigration is good. How much was it in the beginning? In my feeling more is not better. It must stay limited. No immigration is also bad.

At Northrop Grumman Corporation, a major US Defense Contractor Corporation, I used to work in Chicago, with great pay, 401 k, health benefits, and stocks and bonds, there was a German Lady telling our Republican boss all the time how great Germany is, one day our boss told the lady if Germany is so great what are you doing here, the lady never told our boss how great Germany is anymore.

Que Pasa USA? The first US bilingual comedy show, about a typical Cuban American immigrant family, starring Rocky Echevarria, Steven Baurer of Scarface fame, and Thief of Hearts Fame:

Joe's Peña's TV interview: My parents say everything was better in Cuba, even under Batista, not Fidel and Raúl Castro, The subtitle translations into English don't work good, they are terrible.
https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/sear ... ction=view

[Thermodolia]

Remember that most people calling you beta or soyboy are a bunch of 300-lbs NEETs who are supposedly 25 but combines the worst aspects of a toddler, a middle-aged man, and an old man, physically and mentally. These very people are below beta, that's why they call you that

Good job bro you got none of those correct but good effort

He’s not exactly wrong. 90% of today’s neo-nazis would have been sent to the gas chambers by the actual nazis

[The Blaatschapen]

Good job bro you got none of those correct but good effort

He’s not exactly wrong. 90% of today’s neo-nazis would have been sent to the gas chambers by the actual nazis

Hey, not true.

Some would be sent to the labour camps instead.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

"Expecting" assimilation implies some time-frame (in years, or generations) after which the immigrant or descendant is supposed to be fully assimilated.

"Encouraging" assimilation is a more positive approach. If they assimilate in a year, great (though to me it implies a rather shallow person, but whatever, some people are shallow). If they haven't assimilated after two generations, you don't say "time's up, assimilate or we're deporting you" ... which you can't do anyway ... or were you thinking re-education camp? There basically aren't any options to force that rare person or family who don't assimilate, to do so. You can only keep encouraging them.

Tell me some way you can "expect" something, without some kind of deadline, and I'll agree it's not bigoted.

By expecting assimilation, I expect that immigrant groups at least attempt to partially assimilate into the dominant culture over time, and if that isn't going to happen due to them having no interest, then the borders become more restrictive. I don't have hard deadlines here.

This gets long, sorry. I start with objecting to treating immigrants as "groups" but it gives me an idea regarding married couples.

If you can only deal with the question of immigration by depersonalizing it (groups not individuals) then you'll have trouble working up a coherent policy that could actually be enacted. Immigrants are individuals. They may be part of families of their own ethnicity, or even communities/enclaves, but they should be considered just the way any citizen is: firstly as individuals.

If you have Bosnians or Somalis living on your street, you aren't doing anything to help or encourage them to integrate by thinking of them as a "group". If one of them is an awesome skateboarder or musician or whatever you like in people, this lurking feeling that he's part of a group (or family) will get in the way of you being ordinarily friendly. As if he comes as part of an ethnic package that you don't know much about. But we've all got families, and some members of family that are embarassing or badass. We try NOT to introduce new friends to those family members, right? And sometimes you meet someone and get to know them quite well (eg work friends) without ever meeting their families at all. If you like someone's moves (or their curves) you shouldn't be thinking about their family or their social group. If you do that instead of treating them as an individual, you'll probably come across as falsely friendly (ie creepy).

Well I have a theory that going to work is THE great assimilator. At work you have a role that is independent of your race (ideally even of your gender) and as long as you do your job satisfactorily, most work mates will treat you with respect. Now think of social activities. They're basically role-playing, with a large component of ritual and imitation. For someone to fit in from a whole other culture, they need to learn a lot of vague and arbitrary habits. It's actually harder than fitting in at work. If the immigrant has just their household and a moderately stimulating job, their confidence in working will get them through to social activities. They will assimilate. But if they have just their household and social activities, it's more perilous. Social activities are give and take: you don't get much pleasure out of them if you're not pleasing others. It's a lot easier to just give up ... if it's not fun, what's the point? Quite unlike work.

What kind of immigrant doesn't try to get a job? A deadbeat you're thinking. Well maybe, but there's another kind. It's the spouse (wife) of a working immigrant, who was never expected to work for money in her old culture. She doesn't want to, it seems beneath her role as wife and mother. Before you say that's unacceptable, remember that it IS acceptable for born American couples. It may be slightly frowned on: the idle wife of a very rich man is often dismissed as a gold-digger or an airhead who couldn't get a job if she tried. But that kind of wife becomes much more acceptable when there are children.

If that particular cultural trait is something the married couple wants to hang on to, and he's earning enough that they can, I think we have a major lead on why some "groups" (ethnicities, nationalities, or a religious thing) take a lot longer to assimilate. One of them doesn't really want to, and isn't given any incentive to, assimilate by the best path of taking paid work. She (or maybe in rare cases he) does partially assimilate, learning some English, maybe getting a hobby, but she's mostly preoccupied with her "traditional" role of housework and child caring. Couples cannot differ too much from each other, so she holds him back from fully assimilating. Say he wants to go on a four day rafting adventure with the gang from work, but she definitely doesn't and by casting doubt on how safe that is, plus worrying about her own safety, persuades him out of it. Or he wants to move states for better work, but she doesn't want to move away from the few friends who speak her native language.

They could also pass that expectation of "Mothers stay home, Fathers go to work" on to their children. Female children in particular, would seek male partners of the same ethnicity ... not so much because they look like Dad, as because they most easily find in them the Provider and Protector their mother has shown to them is necessary. Mom is clearly dependent on a breadwinner, so the daughter doesn't expect much more for herself. So she marries a drug dealer because his income is so good ... well kids make mistakes, but the broader point is that choosing partners for their sexist cultural attitudes really narrows the field and makes it more likely that children of those immigrants will marry someone of the same ethnicity.

If this all sounds terribly sexist, well it is. To Americans it's pre-WW2 but a lot of other countries still have this sexist expectation of men and women. I'm not sure what to do about it. I'm definitely not up for screening immigrants for sexist culture. Banning known couples from immigrating will probably result in them hiding their married/relationship status and getting back to together when they're in. Allowing men in first will likely cause them to hoard money to support their wife when she arrives. And letting women in first is the least bad option ... but there are no good options. Government basically breaking up couples isn't something it should do.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Good job bro you got none of those correct but good effort

He’s not exactly wrong. 90% of today’s neo-nazis would have been sent to the gas chambers by the actual nazis

Making fun of the Führer. You don't do that, whatever race you are.

[Deltia-]

Shit tier meme. I know you tried to mock what I said, but #1 it was a joke and #2 most people here don't subscribe to your beliefs and don't really care about a shitty drawing of a beta male.

Also IRL Rojava is the epitome of evil in Syria

Aww, ran outta soy milk?

[Unified German-State]

Good job bro you got none of those correct but good effort

He’s not exactly wrong. 90% of today’s neo-nazis would have been sent to the gas chambers by the actual nazis

So sayeth a real-life homosexual. No thanks but I am more inclined to think these guys


are a million times less likely than these guys



to be "gassed".

[Farnhamia]

He’s not exactly wrong. 90% of today’s neo-nazis would have been sent to the gas chambers by the actual nazis

So sayeth a real-life homosexual. No thanks but I am more inclined to think these guys

are a million times less likely than these guys

to be "gassed".

*** 14 day ban for your "contributions" to the thread. ***

I'd lecture you on the rules and all but it's fairly obvious that you don't care. You're inches away from losing this nation. Post past the ban and you will lose it.

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How about no, and we let your white nationalist views end up in the garbage dump with my old school books and dead fish one day?

And your ranking based on skin color is pretty damn inacurrate when West Asians and Southern europeans are often indistinguishable and most Jews I've met are definitely lighter skinned than almost everyone on that list.

He is just salty that a Jewish girl rejected him. That's what you get for being a 2 and being an ass ig.

*** Warned for flaming ***
Someone else acting out does not give you permission to do it, too, or to go after them. Report them and then ignore them.

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As for the rest of you, Moderation should have had half a dozen reports about this, but you just went on chattering away. Shame.