Self-Defense and Entitlement

[Galloism]

Mainly because she is white and people gotta grandstand.

Also, is she pregnant?

She looks pregnant, particularly the way she was holding her belly, but one shouldn’t assume.

[Kernen]

Also, is she pregnant?

She looks pregnant, particularly the way she was holding her belly, but one shouldn’t assume.

By my reading, that could affect the subjective question of appropriate force, but not any objective test of reasonable fear, and not any objective question of appropriate force.

The MPC definition I had to learn said the degree of force had to be objectively appropriate and the reasonable fear had to be both objective and subjective. At best, that's not enough.

[Galloism]

She looks pregnant, particularly the way she was holding her belly, but one shouldn’t assume.

By my reading, that could affect the subjective question of appropriate force, but not any objective test of reasonable fear, and not any objective question of appropriate force.

The MPC definition I had to learn said the degree of force had to be objectively appropriate and the reasonable fear had to be both objective and subjective. At best, that's not enough.

I’d say reasonable fear is met, given the repeated threat of bodily harm and the subsequent blocking of retreat.

Appropriate force is where it falls down under Michigan law. Appropriate force would be to remain in their vehicle, lock their door, and call police.

[Katganistan]

I reported you for spamming, in case you want to defend yourself.

Knock it off with the baiting and pic spamming.

[Galloism]

Wuestenbergs gave an interview to a local reporter. There's a lawyer off screen telling them when not to answer certain questions.

A few takeaways from the wife:

1) She said there were 3-4 people rushing the vehicle at the same time, so that's why she felt afraid.
2) She pointed out their repeated attempts to leave the confrontation.
3) They refused to answer whether or not she was pregnant (under advice from the attorney).

From the husband:

1) He was in the vehicle as this started, and assumed things were fine, as his wife often chats up strangers. He didn't realize anything was wrong until she shouted to call the police.
2) He got out to help her get in the car, as they blocked her from getting in the vehicle and leaving.
3) He returned to the vehicle, attempted to back out, and heard multiple loud bangs
4) He asked if the husband pulled the gun out, and lawyer told him not to answer. Asked him the question a couple different ways, lawyer told him not to answer.
5) Asked him about his loss of job. He said yes. Asked if he had any conversations with them, lawyer told him not to answer (implication civil suit being considered for loss of employment).
6) Reporter asked him what his message to the world was. He said it was "We just wanted to feed our family and go home."
7) Asked if the Hills should face consequences. He said that's his attorneys' job to handle.

Also, due to the number of death threats they've received, they've temporarily moved out of their home, no doubt to hide in an undisclosed location.

[Rojava Free State]

Wuestenbergs gave an interview to a local reporter. There's a lawyer off screen telling them when not to answer certain questions.

A few takeaways from the wife:

1) She said there were 3-4 people rushing the vehicle at the same time, so that's why she felt afraid.
2) She pointed out their repeated attempts to leave the confrontation.
3) They refused to answer whether or not she was pregnant (under advice from the attorney).

From the husband:

1) He was in the vehicle as this started, and assumed things were fine, as his wife often chats up strangers. He didn't realize anything was wrong until she shouted to call the police.
2) He got out to help her get in the car, as they blocked her from getting in the vehicle and leaving.
3) He returned to the vehicle, attempted to back out, and heard multiple loud bangs
4) He asked if the husband pulled the gun out, and lawyer told him not to answer. Asked him the question a couple different ways, lawyer told him not to answer.
5) Asked him about his loss of job. He said yes. Asked if he had any conversations with them, lawyer told him not to answer (implication civil suit being considered for loss of employment).
6) Reporter asked him what his message to the world was. He said it was "We just wanted to feed our family and go home."
7) Asked if the Hills should face consequences. He said that's his attorneys' job to handle.

Also, due to the number of death threats they've received, they've temporarily moved out of their home, no doubt to hide in an undisclosed location.

But the black woman's life was in danger cause she said so and her word trumps the white lady's...according to some people.

[The Emerald Legion]

Expect the midia to omit that to promote socjus.

Incidentally, the gun drawing thing still wasn’t a good idea. Inside a vehicle with lockable doors, they are likely to be pretty safe until police arrive to get them out of the situation.

And that’s the right answer.

Eh... allowing the two to force you to stay there, while they cause gods only know how much damage to your car for... what reason? What's the justification to not allowing them to defend themselves?

[Galloism]

Incidentally, the gun drawing thing still wasn’t a good idea. Inside a vehicle with lockable doors, they are likely to be pretty safe until police arrive to get them out of the situation.

And that’s the right answer.

Eh... allowing the two to force you to stay there, while they cause gods only know how much damage to your car for... what reason? What's the justification to not allowing them to defend themselves?

We try to avoid potentially deadly standoffs, even if there's property damage as a result.

[Rojava Free State]

Eh... allowing the two to force you to stay there, while they cause gods only know how much damage to your car for... what reason? What's the justification to not allowing them to defend themselves?

We try to avoid potentially deadly standoffs, even if there's property damage as a result.

There's an easy remedy to that. Don't surround a car and start kicking it.

[Andsed]

We try to avoid potentially deadly standoffs, even if there's property damage as a result.

There's an easy remedy to that. Don't surround a car and start kicking it.

But if your in that situation it is generally a better idea to simply lock your car doors and call the police. While morally the couple were not really in the wrong, jumping out and pointing their guns at the mother and daughter was really not a good idea and could have very easily led to injury or death.

[Rojava Free State]

There's an easy remedy to that. Don't surround a car and start kicking it.

But if your in that situation it is generally a better idea to simply lock your car doors and call the police. While morally the couple were not really in the wrong, jumping out and pointing their guns at the mother and daughter was really not a good idea and could have very easily led to injury or death.

They should have started backing out at 5 miles per hour. Either the mom will move out of the way or she's legit that stupid. Live or die. The choice is hers.