NATION

PASSWORD

NYC eliminates words "alien" and "illegal" from laws

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Your opinion on the bill passed in NYC?

FOR
78
33%
AGAINST
130
56%
DON'T KNOW
9
4%
OTHER
17
7%
 
Total votes : 234

User avatar
La xinga
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1739
Founded: Jul 12, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

NYC eliminates words "alien" and "illegal" from laws

Postby La xinga » Sun May 31, 2020 3:25 pm

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ments.html

Some time ago, New York City passed a law that "alien" and "illegal immigrant" will no longer become the the term used to define people who have entered the US illegally. The new term shall now be "non-citizen."

What do you guys say about this? Opposed, For, or in between? Do you have any more info about this?

I'm am against this, soon they're gonna be called better people. They are illegal and should have less rights, unless they become legal, of course.

That's my opinion, what's yours? :)
Last edited by La xinga on Sun May 31, 2020 4:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
He created everything, and he was forever and will always be. He is perfect and his word is always true. He will never change his word, and YOU would not be reading this signature if it was not for the Almighty to allow your eyes to see!
Radical religious person. Nothing collided with nothing, the Almighty did everything, and the world is 5780 years old. It's true. Deal with it.
No, please don't argue! I'm innocent!

Yes, we may too, may all of us be innocent.

Unless you're not...

WAMP WAMP!
Too many mistakes in NS issues to have it be my RL views.
Hi, The east pacific!
GLORIOUS AMERICANIUM IMPERIUM!
Religious, pro-life, straight.
ALL LIVES MATTER!

And Marrabuk said to Lerasi...........

User avatar
Mopistan
Civil Servant
 
Posts: 8
Founded: May 22, 2020
Anarchy

Postby Mopistan » Sun May 31, 2020 3:27 pm

I mean, to be fair they are illegal aliens. Doesn’t really make sense not to call them that, and besides, not all noncitizens are illegal.
Last edited by Mopistan on Sun May 31, 2020 3:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Libertarian-right, essentially just a libertarian; based and/or redpilled
This is a new account, I abandoned my previous accounts I made in 2016 and 2019 for a fresh start.
The Chinese government is not your friend, nor is it the friend of freedom, human rights, self-determination, or anything else any decent government would support.

User avatar
Drew Durrnil
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 118
Founded: Apr 30, 2020
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Drew Durrnil » Sun May 31, 2020 3:27 pm

I am for this, because it makes the non-citizen feel welcome in NYC.
A Shark Republic

My Factbook

The Durrnilian Bureau of Police has issued an arrest warrant on President Trump

User avatar
La xinga
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1739
Founded: Jul 12, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby La xinga » Sun May 31, 2020 3:29 pm

Mopistan wrote:I mean, to be fair they are illegal aliens. Doesn’t really make sense not to call them that, and besides, not all noncitizens are illegal.

Understandable.
Drew Durrnil wrote:I am for this, because it makes the non-citizen feel welcome in NYC.

But why should they? They came here illegally.
He created everything, and he was forever and will always be. He is perfect and his word is always true. He will never change his word, and YOU would not be reading this signature if it was not for the Almighty to allow your eyes to see!
Radical religious person. Nothing collided with nothing, the Almighty did everything, and the world is 5780 years old. It's true. Deal with it.
No, please don't argue! I'm innocent!

Yes, we may too, may all of us be innocent.

Unless you're not...

WAMP WAMP!
Too many mistakes in NS issues to have it be my RL views.
Hi, The east pacific!
GLORIOUS AMERICANIUM IMPERIUM!
Religious, pro-life, straight.
ALL LIVES MATTER!

And Marrabuk said to Lerasi...........

User avatar
Unifair
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 16
Founded: Apr 13, 2020
New York Times Democracy

Postby Unifair » Sun May 31, 2020 3:30 pm

“non-citizen” is just fine. “Illegal alien“ has bad connotations and is just too strong to use nowadays.

User avatar
Trollzyn the Infinite
Minister
 
Posts: 2927
Founded: Aug 22, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun May 31, 2020 3:39 pm

Drew Durrnil wrote:I am for this, because it makes the non-citizen feel welcome in NYC.


Why should we make criminals feel welcome?
☆ American Patriot ☆ Civic Nationalist ☆ Nondenominational Christian ☆ Third Positionist ☆
☆ \m/ Rocker & Metalhead \m/ ☆ Anti-Communist ☆ Anti-Fascist ☆ Islamophobe ☆ Anti-Trumper ☆

"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."


Things I've Absolutely No Time Nor Patience For
永远不会忘记1989年6月4日天安门广场大屠杀

User avatar
Valrifell
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25835
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Sun May 31, 2020 3:40 pm

Unifair wrote:“non-citizen” is just fine. “Illegal alien“ has bad connotations and is just too strong to use nowadays.


It's at least very dehumanizing language. People shouldn't be upset over this because either designation is just as correct.
For the benefit of all humankind

User avatar
Union of Sovereign States and Republics
Diplomat
 
Posts: 540
Founded: Nov 16, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Union of Sovereign States and Republics » Sun May 31, 2020 3:41 pm

Drew Durrnil wrote:I am for this, because it makes the non-citizen feel welcome in NYC.

But they came here illegally. They're criminals.
Current IC Year: 2024
The Union of Sovereign States and Republics; USSR
In 1991, a plane carrying would-be conspirators of an armed coup crashed in the Crimean Peninsula. Without the coup, the Union of Sovereign States treaty was signed; and the USSR survived... NS states are not canon.
Current Ruling Party: RODINA PARTY

News: Sweatshops around the world shutting down, clothes becoming 3D printed; Samarinda declared new capital of Indonesia; USSR places second in Euro 2024!

User avatar
Cekoviu
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16092
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Sun May 31, 2020 3:41 pm

RWDT - REST IN POWER
Market socialist, David Hume fangirl, and massive Tuvaboo. Moderate SWERF & traditionalist SJW. Non-denominational Christian, influenced by Orthodoxy and certain Protestant currents.
/tʃɛ'koʊ.vi:.ju:/ (check-OH-vee-you)

User avatar
La xinga
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1739
Founded: Jul 12, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby La xinga » Sun May 31, 2020 3:42 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Drew Durrnil wrote:I am for this, because it makes the non-citizen feel welcome in NYC.


Why should we make criminals feel welcome?

Exactly LOL
Valrifell wrote:
Unifair wrote:“non-citizen” is just fine. “Illegal alien“ has bad connotations and is just too strong to use nowadays.


It's at least very dehumanizing language. People shouldn't be upset over this because either designation is just as correct.

Well, they did kinda come here illegally, why should they have rights?
He created everything, and he was forever and will always be. He is perfect and his word is always true. He will never change his word, and YOU would not be reading this signature if it was not for the Almighty to allow your eyes to see!
Radical religious person. Nothing collided with nothing, the Almighty did everything, and the world is 5780 years old. It's true. Deal with it.
No, please don't argue! I'm innocent!

Yes, we may too, may all of us be innocent.

Unless you're not...

WAMP WAMP!
Too many mistakes in NS issues to have it be my RL views.
Hi, The east pacific!
GLORIOUS AMERICANIUM IMPERIUM!
Religious, pro-life, straight.
ALL LIVES MATTER!

And Marrabuk said to Lerasi...........

User avatar
Trollzyn the Infinite
Minister
 
Posts: 2927
Founded: Aug 22, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun May 31, 2020 3:43 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Unifair wrote:“non-citizen” is just fine. “Illegal alien“ has bad connotations and is just too strong to use nowadays.


It's at least very dehumanizing language. People shouldn't be upset over this because either designation is just as correct.


"Illegal alien"? Yes, that is clearly dehumanizing.

"Illegal immigrant", however, is by description 100% accurate and non-offensive. I don't see why we should stop calling illegal immigrants what they are.
☆ American Patriot ☆ Civic Nationalist ☆ Nondenominational Christian ☆ Third Positionist ☆
☆ \m/ Rocker & Metalhead \m/ ☆ Anti-Communist ☆ Anti-Fascist ☆ Islamophobe ☆ Anti-Trumper ☆

"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."


Things I've Absolutely No Time Nor Patience For
永远不会忘记1989年6月4日天安门广场大屠杀

User avatar
Union of Sovereign States and Republics
Diplomat
 
Posts: 540
Founded: Nov 16, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Union of Sovereign States and Republics » Sun May 31, 2020 3:44 pm

La xinga wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
It's at least very dehumanizing language. People shouldn't be upset over this because either designation is just as correct.

Well, they did kinda come here illegally, why should they have rights?

Well, there's a large number of illegal immigrants that are Americans that haven't come home yet.
Current IC Year: 2024
The Union of Sovereign States and Republics; USSR
In 1991, a plane carrying would-be conspirators of an armed coup crashed in the Crimean Peninsula. Without the coup, the Union of Sovereign States treaty was signed; and the USSR survived... NS states are not canon.
Current Ruling Party: RODINA PARTY

News: Sweatshops around the world shutting down, clothes becoming 3D printed; Samarinda declared new capital of Indonesia; USSR places second in Euro 2024!

User avatar
Britannia Maior
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 136
Founded: Jan 24, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Britannia Maior » Sun May 31, 2020 3:45 pm

I personally don’t really care so much, but “non-citizen” doesn’t seem the most fitting term for this specific kind of immigrant. To me, it’s just another word for a resident of America, someone who lives there but hasn’t attained naturalisation. Illegal immigrant seems just fine to me, though I can understand the change in regards to how charged the former has become in recent years, partially thanks to a certain world “leader”.
COMMONWEALTHOFGREATERBRITAIN
NATIONALISM ᛫ SOCIALISM ᛫ UNITED

MT Great Britain and Overseas Territories under a National Statist regime, dedicated to furthering British interests and securing a new Pax Britannica Maiorem.

| The Times | “When Britain gets into world police mode it drops the baton and picks up the steel cricket bat,” warns online journalist. // Size of British forces in countries neighbouring Russia increases exponentially while Russian warships are cornered in the Baltic.

User avatar
Valrifell
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25835
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Sun May 31, 2020 3:45 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
It's at least very dehumanizing language. People shouldn't be upset over this because either designation is just as correct.


"Illegal alien"? Yes, that is clearly dehumanizing.

"Illegal immigrant", however, is by description 100% accurate and non-offensive. I don't see why we should stop calling illegal immigrants what they are.


The difference between illegal immigrant and non-citizen doesn't strike me as very deep. I'm not seeing why it's worth fussing over either way, honestly.
For the benefit of all humankind

User avatar
La xinga
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1739
Founded: Jul 12, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby La xinga » Sun May 31, 2020 3:45 pm

Union of Sovereign States and Republics wrote:
La xinga wrote:
Well, they did kinda come here illegally, why should they have rights?

Well, there's a large number of illegal immigrants that are Americans that haven't come home yet.

So we should tell them: Go home now, NOW. Right?
He created everything, and he was forever and will always be. He is perfect and his word is always true. He will never change his word, and YOU would not be reading this signature if it was not for the Almighty to allow your eyes to see!
Radical religious person. Nothing collided with nothing, the Almighty did everything, and the world is 5780 years old. It's true. Deal with it.
No, please don't argue! I'm innocent!

Yes, we may too, may all of us be innocent.

Unless you're not...

WAMP WAMP!
Too many mistakes in NS issues to have it be my RL views.
Hi, The east pacific!
GLORIOUS AMERICANIUM IMPERIUM!
Religious, pro-life, straight.
ALL LIVES MATTER!

And Marrabuk said to Lerasi...........

User avatar
Cekoviu
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16092
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cekoviu » Sun May 31, 2020 3:45 pm

La xinga wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
It's at least very dehumanizing language. People shouldn't be upset over this because either designation is just as correct.

Well, they did kinda come here illegally, why should they have rights?

1) human rights should not be contingent on criminal status
1a) especially not non-violent criminal status
2) you realize what rampant government-enforced dehumanization of social minorities gets you, yes?
RWDT - REST IN POWER
Market socialist, David Hume fangirl, and massive Tuvaboo. Moderate SWERF & traditionalist SJW. Non-denominational Christian, influenced by Orthodoxy and certain Protestant currents.
/tʃɛ'koʊ.vi:.ju:/ (check-OH-vee-you)

User avatar
Britannia Maior
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 136
Founded: Jan 24, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Britannia Maior » Sun May 31, 2020 3:46 pm

La xinga wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
Why should we make criminals feel welcome?

Exactly LOL
Valrifell wrote:
It's at least very dehumanizing language. People shouldn't be upset over this because either designation is just as correct.

Well, they did kinda come here illegally, why should they have rights?


Even people who immigrate illegally shouldn’t be deprived of their human rights.
COMMONWEALTHOFGREATERBRITAIN
NATIONALISM ᛫ SOCIALISM ᛫ UNITED

MT Great Britain and Overseas Territories under a National Statist regime, dedicated to furthering British interests and securing a new Pax Britannica Maiorem.

| The Times | “When Britain gets into world police mode it drops the baton and picks up the steel cricket bat,” warns online journalist. // Size of British forces in countries neighbouring Russia increases exponentially while Russian warships are cornered in the Baltic.

User avatar
Trollzyn the Infinite
Minister
 
Posts: 2927
Founded: Aug 22, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun May 31, 2020 3:46 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
"Illegal alien"? Yes, that is clearly dehumanizing.

"Illegal immigrant", however, is by description 100% accurate and non-offensive. I don't see why we should stop calling illegal immigrants what they are.


The difference between illegal immigrant and non-citizen doesn't strike me as very deep. I'm not seeing why it's worth fussing over either way, honestly.


A non-citizen can be here legally. An illegal immigrant cannot.

Seems pretty deep to me.
☆ American Patriot ☆ Civic Nationalist ☆ Nondenominational Christian ☆ Third Positionist ☆
☆ \m/ Rocker & Metalhead \m/ ☆ Anti-Communist ☆ Anti-Fascist ☆ Islamophobe ☆ Anti-Trumper ☆

"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."


Things I've Absolutely No Time Nor Patience For
永远不会忘记1989年6月4日天安门广场大屠杀

User avatar
Britannia Maior
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 136
Founded: Jan 24, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Britannia Maior » Sun May 31, 2020 3:47 pm

La xinga wrote:
Union of Sovereign States and Republics wrote:Well, there's a large number of illegal immigrants that are Americans that haven't come home yet.

So we should tell them: Go home now, NOW. Right?


It depends on how useful they are. Illegal immigrants are very beneficial to the US manual or menial labour workforce IIRC, especially in agriculture.

Edit: I misread the post, but the general point is that illegal immigrants should only be deported after their value has been estimated or something of that nature, or if returning home is safe for them.
Last edited by Britannia Maior on Sun May 31, 2020 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
COMMONWEALTHOFGREATERBRITAIN
NATIONALISM ᛫ SOCIALISM ᛫ UNITED

MT Great Britain and Overseas Territories under a National Statist regime, dedicated to furthering British interests and securing a new Pax Britannica Maiorem.

| The Times | “When Britain gets into world police mode it drops the baton and picks up the steel cricket bat,” warns online journalist. // Size of British forces in countries neighbouring Russia increases exponentially while Russian warships are cornered in the Baltic.

User avatar
Union of Sovereign States and Republics
Diplomat
 
Posts: 540
Founded: Nov 16, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Union of Sovereign States and Republics » Sun May 31, 2020 3:49 pm

La xinga wrote:
Union of Sovereign States and Republics wrote:Well, there's a large number of illegal immigrants that are Americans that haven't come home yet.

So we should tell them: Go home now, NOW. Right?

Yeah. America is their home. We should show them how to legally obtain citizenship.
Current IC Year: 2024
The Union of Sovereign States and Republics; USSR
In 1991, a plane carrying would-be conspirators of an armed coup crashed in the Crimean Peninsula. Without the coup, the Union of Sovereign States treaty was signed; and the USSR survived... NS states are not canon.
Current Ruling Party: RODINA PARTY

News: Sweatshops around the world shutting down, clothes becoming 3D printed; Samarinda declared new capital of Indonesia; USSR places second in Euro 2024!

User avatar
La xinga
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1739
Founded: Jul 12, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby La xinga » Sun May 31, 2020 3:50 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
La xinga wrote:Well, they did kinda come here illegally, why should they have rights?

1) human rights should not be contingent on criminal status
1a) especially not non-violent criminal status
2) you realize what rampant government-enforced dehumanization of social minorities gets you, yes?

1. They came here illegally, so shall not they be deported? Then what good is it becoming a citizen?
2. I'm not saying massacre, I'm saying deportation.
Britannia Maior wrote:
La xinga wrote:So we should tell them: Go home now, NOW. Right?


It depends on how useful they are. Illegal immigrants are very beneficial to the US manual or menial labour workforce IIRC, especially in agriculture.

5.9 million people in America were unemployed in 2019, but shouldn't the citizen come before the illegal immigrant?
He created everything, and he was forever and will always be. He is perfect and his word is always true. He will never change his word, and YOU would not be reading this signature if it was not for the Almighty to allow your eyes to see!
Radical religious person. Nothing collided with nothing, the Almighty did everything, and the world is 5780 years old. It's true. Deal with it.
No, please don't argue! I'm innocent!

Yes, we may too, may all of us be innocent.

Unless you're not...

WAMP WAMP!
Too many mistakes in NS issues to have it be my RL views.
Hi, The east pacific!
GLORIOUS AMERICANIUM IMPERIUM!
Religious, pro-life, straight.
ALL LIVES MATTER!

And Marrabuk said to Lerasi...........

User avatar
La xinga
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1739
Founded: Jul 12, 2019
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby La xinga » Sun May 31, 2020 3:51 pm

Union of Sovereign States and Republics wrote:
La xinga wrote:So we should tell them: Go home now, NOW. Right?

Yeah. America is their home. We should show them how to legally obtain citizenship.

Exactly. But for some reason, they don't wait, they just go in.
He created everything, and he was forever and will always be. He is perfect and his word is always true. He will never change his word, and YOU would not be reading this signature if it was not for the Almighty to allow your eyes to see!
Radical religious person. Nothing collided with nothing, the Almighty did everything, and the world is 5780 years old. It's true. Deal with it.
No, please don't argue! I'm innocent!

Yes, we may too, may all of us be innocent.

Unless you're not...

WAMP WAMP!
Too many mistakes in NS issues to have it be my RL views.
Hi, The east pacific!
GLORIOUS AMERICANIUM IMPERIUM!
Religious, pro-life, straight.
ALL LIVES MATTER!

And Marrabuk said to Lerasi...........

User avatar
Britannia Maior
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 136
Founded: Jan 24, 2020
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Britannia Maior » Sun May 31, 2020 3:52 pm

La xinga wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:1) human rights should not be contingent on criminal status
1a) especially not non-violent criminal status
2) you realize what rampant government-enforced dehumanization of social minorities gets you, yes?

1. They came here illegally, so shall not they be deported? Then what good is it becoming a citizen?
2. I'm not saying massacre, I'm saying deportation.
Britannia Maior wrote:
It depends on how useful they are. Illegal immigrants are very beneficial to the US manual or menial labour workforce IIRC, especially in agriculture.

5.9 million people in America were unemployed in 2019, but shouldn't the citizen come before the illegal immigrant?


Good luck convincing employers to employ citizens over illegal immigrants. The latter are easier to pay AFAIK and generally more cost effective. In theory, however, I’d usually agree, but America isn’t a command economy so that can’t exactly be enforced I think.
COMMONWEALTHOFGREATERBRITAIN
NATIONALISM ᛫ SOCIALISM ᛫ UNITED

MT Great Britain and Overseas Territories under a National Statist regime, dedicated to furthering British interests and securing a new Pax Britannica Maiorem.

| The Times | “When Britain gets into world police mode it drops the baton and picks up the steel cricket bat,” warns online journalist. // Size of British forces in countries neighbouring Russia increases exponentially while Russian warships are cornered in the Baltic.

User avatar
Trollzyn the Infinite
Minister
 
Posts: 2927
Founded: Aug 22, 2018
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun May 31, 2020 3:53 pm

Britannia Maior wrote:
La xinga wrote:So we should tell them: Go home now, NOW. Right?


It depends on how useful they are. Illegal immigrants are very beneficial to the US manual or menial labour workforce IIRC, especially in agriculture.

Edit: I misread the post, but the general point is that illegal immigrants should only be deported after their value has been estimated or something of that nature, or if returning home is safe for them.


You mean the ones being exploited by corporations that want to dodge labor and wage laws?
☆ American Patriot ☆ Civic Nationalist ☆ Nondenominational Christian ☆ Third Positionist ☆
☆ \m/ Rocker & Metalhead \m/ ☆ Anti-Communist ☆ Anti-Fascist ☆ Islamophobe ☆ Anti-Trumper ☆

"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right."


Things I've Absolutely No Time Nor Patience For
永远不会忘记1989年6月4日天安门广场大屠杀

User avatar
Jagermeista
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Feb 26, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jagermeista » Sun May 31, 2020 3:54 pm

Virtue signaling.

A "Non-citizen" is a legal immigrant who has not gone through the citizenship process.
There needs to remain a distinction between legal and illegal, because there is a HUGE difference between the two. America welcomes the legals.

Next

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Cisairse, Costa Fierro, Geneviev, Google Adsense [Bot], Kubra, Majestic-12 [Bot], New Kvenland, Ngelmish, Nobel Hobos 2, Northern Davincia, Outer Sparta, Shrillland, South Odreria 2, Terttia, The Two Jerseys

Advertisement

Remove ads