How to slam down on nepotism?

[Ethel mermania]

The OP has not made that distinction. My concession that nepotism does not belong in the public sector has been ignored

My parents, both retired teachers, worked for the city.
I work as a teacher for the city.

I contacted my hs English teacher, who contacted his old chairperson, who interviewed me and said he didn't have a job for me but suggested I interview with someone he'd once worked with. I then had to interview with the principal.

I had the license, I had the certification tests, I had the diploma and a high GPA, plus a giant binder with one year's worth of lesson plans.

Was there anything wrong with that?

Just curious, do you have to do any of the JCOPE training i do?

Your license certifies that the state of NY considers you qualified. You in addition to that license have at least a bachelors if not a masters degree in education or a course subject. Most NY educational institutions require an in classroom internship of sorts which includes the review of a professional teacher. So i assume you passed that with flying colors.

A couple questions
Were you hired by anyone you knew?
Do you work for, or does anyone who may work for you, have a blood relationship with you?

If not your OK its not nepotism

[Cekoviu]

Completely restructuring the American economic framework is the only viable solution.

[Katganistan]

My parents, both retired teachers, worked for the city.
I work as a teacher for the city.

I contacted my hs English teacher, who contacted his old chairperson, who interviewed me and said he didn't have a job for me but suggested I interview with someone he'd once worked with. I then had to interview with the principal.

I had the license, I had the certification tests, I had the diploma and a high GPA, plus a giant binder with one year's worth of lesson plans.

Was there anything wrong with that?

Just curious, do you have to do any of the JCOPE training i do?

Your license certifies that the state of NY considers you qualified. You in addition to that license have at least a bachelors if not a masters degree in education or a course subject. Most NY educational institutions require an in classroom internship of sorts which includes the review of a professional teacher. So i assume you passed that with flying colors.

A couple questions
Were you hired by anyone you knew?
Do you work for, or does anyone who may work for you, have a blood relationship with you?

If not your OK its not nepotism

Nope, not hired by anyone I knew -- given a number and told "Try this guy," and after I talked to that complete stranger, had to interview with his boss whom I also did not know.

And nope, never worked for or had a blood relative work for me.

And yup, BA and MA, passed the content area and general written exams, the oral exam, the videotaped exam, and the internship, all with, as you say, flying colors.

[Vetalia]

Eh, "who you know" typically doesn't mean using underhanded means to get a job...almost always it's people you've worked with or for in the past that can provide a reference regarding your work ethic, knowledge, personality, etc. Even employing immediate family members isn't a problem if you have appropriate segregation of duties and objective employment standards. Just look at Ford Motor Company, for example. Those organizations that embrace nepotism don't really last very long.

Your "option A" is essentially the standard education and employment verification performed by any responsible employer; going beyond that to arrive at granulated, formula-driven activity to produce an objective score would be a disaster because it would totally ignore the soft skills like communication, teamwork, leadership and sociability that are essential in many jobs in favor of raw technical knowledge. Those skills are much harder to develop when lacking than technical knowledge.

Going off of my industry (I work in public accounting), someone could have a 4.0 GPA in accounting at the undergraduate and Master's level, work more hours than anyone else and score 100 on every section of the CPA exam but if they are unable to work in a team and communicate effectively and sociably with their coworkers and especially clients, they have no real future working in the field beyond entry level.

[Diopolis]

It's not who you know. It's not what you know. It's what you know about who you know. Verb sap.

This explains Epstein.

[Vetalia]

It's not who you know. It's not what you know. It's what you know about who you know. Verb sap.

This explains Epstein.

Admittedly being strangled to death in your cell by a violent ex-cop while the guards turn the other way isn't exactly how I would want to go.

[Ethel mermania]

Just curious, do you have to do any of the JCOPE training i do?

Your license certifies that the state of NY considers you qualified. You in addition to that license have at least a bachelors if not a masters degree in education or a course subject. Most NY educational institutions require an in classroom internship of sorts which includes the review of a professional teacher. So i assume you passed that with flying colors.

A couple questions
Were you hired by anyone you knew?
Do you work for, or does anyone who may work for you, have a blood relationship with you?

If not your OK its not nepotism

Nope, not hired by anyone I knew -- given a number and told "Try this guy," and after I talked to that complete stranger, had to interview with his boss whom I also did not know.

And nope, never worked for or had a blood relative work for me.

And yup, BA and MA, passed the content area and general written exams, the oral exam, the videotaped exam, and the internship, all with, as you say, flying colors.

Sooo... wouldn’t you agree that you are a bad example of nepotism in the public sector?

[Vetalia]

Nope, not hired by anyone I knew -- given a number and told "Try this guy," and after I talked to that complete stranger, had to interview with his boss whom I also did not know.

And nope, never worked for or had a blood relative work for me.

And yup, BA and MA, passed the content area and general written exams, the oral exam, the videotaped exam, and the internship, all with, as you say, flying colors.

Sooo... wouldn’t you agree that you are a bad example of nepotism in the public sector?

Not unless a job referral without any further contact is an example of nepotism.

[Gravlen]

Why would I tell them that?
. If I owned Vidal Sassoon's shop that might matter if I owned a supercuts franchise it wouldn't matter at all

And you sidestepped the question I asked you.

Do you want competency tests for all jobs? Burger flippers, retail clerks, stockroom personnel?

Yes. I thought it was obvious enough how I felt from the question I chose to ask in response.

Customers are paying for the quality of service.

Sometimes, yes. Not always. People going to an Apple Store to buy an iPhone will care about the quality of the product, not about the quality of the service, for example. Similarly, some people going to certain brands don't care about the quality of the service. Being able to say you got a haircut by Vidal Sassoon before he died might be more important to some than the quality of the cut.

If they're getting what they paid for, that means the education system their tax dollars already paid for is partly responsible for the quality, and that the amount the employer invested in training them "on the job" (which again, incentivizes them to make would-be quitters underestimate their value) made up the rest.

If they're not, they're getting screwed over.

No more half-measures. Compare a company's hiring decisions with an outside observer's assessment of skill.

Again, what is the problem when it comes to private companies? Won't the Free Market Fairy fix things if nepotism is something the customers don't like?

[The Blaatschapen]

Not the argument I was making, that you're counterarguing against. Merely, that qualifications exist that are not done by the state.

Ah, your arguement is more subtle than i am taking it. And in fact if i were to be fair. I would mention There are even private ones that are legally required to have the job (Very few in the total amount of jobs out there, but i know the securities industry has a few)..

But i am not going to be fair and mention it

I actually have one such private certification.

The IVA (dutch: instruction on responsible alcohol usage), a certificate to sell alcohol.

[Arkhane]

OP clearly has no understanding on how hiring and job evaluation works. First of all, achieving high marks or grades in school does not equal experience and proficiency in the field. Second, nepotism is not an inherently bad thing, in fact, most family businesses and companies remain successful because the skills and experience are often passed down effectively through family bonding over work. A father letting his young son fetch his paperwork or do simple tasks at first gradually shows him the ropes of how he keeps the business going, the son eventually learns through hands on experience and gets better until one day he gets the position.

Nepotism only fails companies and businesses when relatives force their kin in positions that they do not like or prioritizes their relatives over the business's welfare. This is the classic "he offered his position because he is his son not because he is competent" permutations that often lead to companies failing.

[Cameroi]

the only way to "slam down" on anything, is to get a majority of people to agree with you. by hook or by crook or by utter connivance.
OR, you can inspire people by expressing your ideas in a way that inspires them.

hiring your relatives for management possessions isn't automatically a bad thing, that is, if they are actually competent.
that's what the "family farm" is any more these days. a corporate agra-biz that's run by nepotism.

which i'm not really trying to excuse. it isn't automatically a good thing either.
meritocracy is generally preferable, then again, only when it really is,
and unless some totally impersonal standards are applied by referees with nothing to gain or loose,
even that can be somewhat in the eye of the beholder.

nothing wrong with putting to work people you know, provided you put them where you know they'd be good at,
and not over and ahead of someone you know would be better.

[Katganistan]

Nope, not hired by anyone I knew -- given a number and told "Try this guy," and after I talked to that complete stranger, had to interview with his boss whom I also did not know.

And nope, never worked for or had a blood relative work for me.

And yup, BA and MA, passed the content area and general written exams, the oral exam, the videotaped exam, and the internship, all with, as you say, flying colors.

Sooo... wouldn’t you agree that you are a bad example of nepotism in the public sector?

OP's first post seemed to suggest I was a very good example of it.

[Ethel mermania]

Sooo... wouldn’t you agree that you are a bad example of nepotism in the public sector?

OP's first post seemed to suggest I was a very good example of it.

Ah, it confused us all.

[Drumon]

Hiring family for no reason but being family is degenerative to a society to be sure. But hiring friends/people you know well is critical to the success of a business.

[Bear Stearns]

Stop thinking that someone's family name entitle's them to shit.

Chelsea Clinton, Hunter Biden, and Donald Trump Jr are all pieces of shit and anyone who thinks they are qualified for public life is a moron and deserves to be shut out of the national debate.

[Ifreann]

The OP has not made that distinction. My concession that nepotism does not belong in the public sector has been ignored

That's true. The op is missing the distinction. Nepotism really doesn't belong in the public sector. Even my last company; the qualified people were far less then the people you was ask "why the hell is he here????"

I don't think that the OP really understands why people object to nepotism, just understands that people do object to it and is thus brainstorming how to completely and utterly destroy nepotism forever, no matter the cost.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

That's true. The op is missing the distinction. Nepotism really doesn't belong in the public sector. Even my last company; the qualified people were far less then the people you was ask "why the hell is he here????"

I don't think that the OP really understands why people object to nepotism, just understands that people do object to it and is thus brainstorming how to completely and utterly destroy nepotism forever, no matter the cost.

Good guess, but false.

I object to nepotism on the grounds that hiring one's family and friends comes at the expense of hiring people who would be better at the job. We already invest billions of dollars into assessment of knowledge and skill through the education system as it is, so it's rather suspect whenever an employer claims there's just a bit more knowledge and skill they, as someone with every incentive to cause them to underestimate their worth, should assess in a manner that isn't made as directly public.

[Grinning Dragon]

I don't think that the OP really understands why people object to nepotism, just understands that people do object to it and is thus brainstorming how to completely and utterly destroy nepotism forever, no matter the cost.

Good guess, but false.

I object to nepotism on the grounds that hiring one's family and friends comes at the expense of hiring people who would be better at the job. We already invest billions of dollars into assessment of knowledge and skill through the education system as it is, so it's rather suspect whenever an employer claims there's just a bit more knowledge and skill they, as someone with every incentive to cause them to underestimate their worth, should assess in a manner that isn't made as directly public.

The underlined is just your opinion, and one you cannot prove, whereas one who grows up in family that runs a business, that person is already that much further ahead in the knowledge of said business vs an outsider.

[Auze]

I have an cousin who needs a job and could help you figure out the solution to this problem.

[New haven america]

Completely restructuring the US economic system and switching the societal belief of the individual/family>the community.