New York abandons plans for mens shelter

[Arthenius]

This is my first post on this thread so I have to put my initial two cents in:

Jeeeeeeeeeez!

Yup, that was my first reaction to this hot garbage. The hypocrisy of "feminists" (you know what type of feminists I am talking about) has always been apparent to me but this is honestly the icing on the cake. If I were to say that a [pick any minority group] was comprised entirely of [pick any stereotype], I would get metaphorically hanged. Yet, by some miracle of evolution, it's totally fine if I were to pick on a majority group. Honestly, what is this world coming to?

It's what happens when you tolerate a hate movement and their apologists and allow them influence over institutions and other people. The way to fix it is to refuse to tolerate their gaslighting, propoganda, and the rationalizations of those apologists.

You wouldn't let an open and proud neo-nazi teach children, you shouldn't let a feminist either. Identifying as one should disqualify you from a whole host of professions and social settings, and we don't need to justify it to those of them who are still trying to pretend it's not a hate movement beyond "You're a member of a hate movement and that's the consensus of the majority of people and has been for a long time.".

The only good feminist is a feminist with no agency to enact their ideas or spread them, nor influence over other people. Those feminists who try and normalize and redeem the movement are also culpable because that inherently involves whitewashing its history and the impact of it, like trying to redeem the confederate flag or something.

As someone noted earlier, when the initial mens shelters were being considered by the founder of the worlds first womens shelter, that founder received countless death threats, harassment, and so on from feminists. Feminists then went on to found the duluth model and so on.

Because the left is made up of those who say "we stand up for the oppressed in society and [insert any political attack toward the right]..." but are really the ones covertly subverting societies under our collective noses. Wolves in sheep's clothing.

I don't know if you consider your own main views left or right, but that's how the left (progressives, socialists, feminists) generally operates.

[Loben The 2nd]

Indiana on the other hand is doing the right thing, or at least this one shelter is

DANVILLE, Ind. – A domestic violence shelter that has provided a safe haven for women and children for nearly two decades now plans to take in men as well.

Sheltering Wings in Danville, Indiana, has raised thousands of dollars to renovate their second story to house male victims of domestic abuse.

The shelter is expanding its services to help fill a gender gap.

“Domestic violence is not just a women’s issue,” said Sheltering Wings Board Chair Alyson Lurker. “Nationally, the CDC says one in seven men has experienced severe physical violence from an intimate partner during his lifetime.”

Is there just less feminists in Indiana or are they just less regular feminist?

https://www.wptv.com/news/national/dome ... R9y4wwqVIE

Indiana is as southern as you can get without going to the Ohio river.

[Arthenius]

MRA's lack power but that does not mean that the policies they're proposing and attitudes they're expressing would not have pernicious consequences for women and, as I've argued in the past, many of the issues you label as state violence against men are not motivated by attitudes that, strictly speaking, fall under the purview of feminism. Treating women with kiddy gloves because we lack moral agency is sexist and patriarchal, and would not have been out of place in pre-modern times. Really, the biggest observable change that comes to mind are the laws surrounding divorce and child custody - which are still based on a rigid understanding of gender norms in many cases.


People who fantasize about situations in which they can feel morally vindicated in hurting another person are not processing frustration in a healthy manner. They're being hateful, incendiary, and deliberately invoking violence.


I don't think the police qualify as a feminist institution, especially not given the prevalence of men and domestic abusers in that profession. But, yeah, it's not a nice hypothetical and one has to wonder why the hypothetical leaps immediately to hitting and hurting women.


Then why bring it up at all? Especially when it might not even be the relevant issue?

1. Which policies?

2. Feminists in the UK have actively lobbied on feminist grounds to exempt women from prison, and achieved trial runs of this. Your attempt to pretend that something pre-existing means it isn't feminisms fault for codifying it and entrenching it is laughable. I guess you can't call the Nazis anti-semites either, right? Your problem is that you are begging the question and saying that if something is sexist then it can't be feminism rather than understanding that sexism is a key component of feminism. "Look what you made me do" is not lacking moral agency, it is the mindset of an abuser. Women are granted moral agency for positive achievements, but their negative behaviors are blamed on society and men. That's a consequence of feminism. It's also not something that used to happen to anywhere near this extent, so you can't pretend it's pre-existing. "We hanged the man and flogged the woman", not "We hanged the man, then understood it wasn't really the womans fault and gave her a slap on the wrist.". Feminism is not opposition to gender norms in practice, it is about the pursuit of female supremacy using the language of equality to gaslight people, and that involves invoking and strengthening gender norms when they are useful to women, even when this creates double standards. Feminism has had no issue with demanding men respect women as moral agents when it is useful to them while simultaneously demanding they accept men are responsible for womens moral failings. Your attempt to pretend the latter isn't feminism because it contradicts the former stems from your refusal to acknowledge what feminism actually is in practice, and your denial of the latter being an aspect of feminism is a key component of what keeps the whole thing going. Simply saying "But that's not feminism" is nothing more than a denial of reality brought about from your own failure to accept responsibility, it is not a valid opinion. It is feminism, that is what feminism has done to society. You occupy the curious position of believing a feminism that exists solely in your imagination is more real than one that actually exists.

3.

People who fantasize about situations in which they can feel morally vindicated in hurting another person are not processing frustration in a healthy manner. They're being hateful, incendiary, and deliberately invoking violence.

This is a position a privileged person would invoke when trying to defend state violence. At a certain point you come to understand the deck is stacked against you and the other side are engaging in bad faith. You cannot use words to force them to stop acting in bad faith and just spouting their rationalizations for their abuses against you. Violence is one way that has been historically very successful at breaking that impasse, but other direct action methods also work.

If a slave master can continue to keep slavery in place until slaves manage to "Convince" the master they should stop with their words, slavery continues forever. Strike action is one way to break it. But then deciding, "Know what? If they try and beat us to get us to stop striking and get back to work, I think we should shove a pitchfork through their neck" is fine. It's not hateful. It may be deliberately invoking violence, and it may be incendiary, but it's justified.

If you don't want men contemplating violence against women, stop oppressing men and acting in bad faith when they try and tell you to stop. Men contemplate violence against their abusers because they know if they "Go on strike" (call the police), the violence against them simply continues thanks to how feminists have warped society. "Equal rights, equal lefts" is; "Shove the pitchfork through their neck.". There's no reason women and women alone should be among the privileged classes of human history to not eventually be subjected to mass violence when they refuse to stop oppressing people. The hateful and unjustified outcome is the status quo continuing in perpetuity, which it seems like it might given that we're dealing with people acting in bad faith.

I don't think the police qualify as a feminist institution, especially not given the prevalence of men and domestic abusers in that profession. But, yeah, it's not a nice hypothetical and one has to wonder why the hypothetical leaps immediately to hitting and hurting women.

Plenty of men are feminists, and plenty of feminists are domestic abusers. It's in fact, a lobby on behalf of domestic abusers. "It's not a nice hypothetical.".

Right. But it doesn't have to be.

They haven't leapt immediately to it. They've been drawn to it after around a hundred years of feminists operating in bad faith and not being genuine, and thus rendering conversation pointless. Even this conversation is pointless because you are in total denial of the reality of what feminism is. It's as ridiculous as saying "That's not real imperialism though" because you can't handle the fact you fell for a bunch of lies, rationalizations, and propoganda to convince you reality was something it wasn't.

And as for the violence point, yes, eventually, the colonized start fantasizing about just killing the imperialists because they get sick of them going "But imperialism is good for you" and stonewalling all the ways they point out it isn't actually.

And that's fine. That's completely fine. Not all oppressors are honest or self-aware enough to avoid the outcome of violence being enacted against them to get them to stop, but crucially, no oppressed group OWES its oppressors a peaceful solution when that peaceful solution relies on the oppressor "agreeing to stop" and that seems like it's never going to happen because they've rationalized how it's necessary to continue in perpetuity with unfalsifiable nonsense.

Then why bring it up at all? Especially when it might not even be the relevant issue?

Because it's allowing people with no other options to visualize a scenario where they gain enough power over their abuser to get them to stop.

Notice the fantasy is, she punches me, I punch her, she stops. Not, "And then we descend into a prolonged brawl.", or, "And then I start beating her instead". The fantasy is ultimately about an end to the violence and the means to achieve it. You apparently find that offensive or disturbing in some way.

I don't necessarily condone it, but I see the point of your sentiment on just violence (even though I disagree with the specific "women hitting" scenario, I think that's still more petty), but what do you think about the potential consequences and blowback for actions. Like unless if such action is taken out by a large enough en masse of people and strategically in ways to attempt resistance, nobody can attack a person or physical group and expect the problem to not get even worse.

[Sovaal]

A shame, but not surprising. Although the stated reasons for changing it are particulary worrisome.

Across the world, the poor have been neglected for thousands of years. Their day will come. The homeless are weeping today but tomorrow they will have the last laugh.

No, they will just continue to suffer the same existence they have, just the homeless of a thousand years ago did, until they either some how pull themselves out of it or they die.

[Katganistan]

Indiana on the other hand is doing the right thing, or at least this one shelter is

DANVILLE, Ind. – A domestic violence shelter that has provided a safe haven for women and children for nearly two decades now plans to take in men as well.

Sheltering Wings in Danville, Indiana, has raised thousands of dollars to renovate their second story to house male victims of domestic abuse.

The shelter is expanding its services to help fill a gender gap.

“Domestic violence is not just a women’s issue,” said Sheltering Wings Board Chair Alyson Lurker. “Nationally, the CDC says one in seven men has experienced severe physical violence from an intimate partner during his lifetime.”

Is there just less feminists in Indiana or are they just less regular feminist?

https://www.wptv.com/news/national/dome ... R9y4wwqVIE

This is a good idea. There definitely are men who have been victims of domestic violence, and they deserve a safe haven from it.

But I still believe that the idea that a shelter designated for men only would be a danger to women and children in a community is a stupid idea, and that NY should not have caved and abandoned this idea.

[Sundiata]

A shame, but not surprising. Although the stated reasons for changing it are particulary worrisome.

Across the world, the poor have been neglected for thousands of years. Their day will come. The homeless are weeping today but tomorrow they will have the last laugh.

No, they will just continue to suffer the same existence they have, just the homeless of a thousand years ago did, until they either some how pull themselves out of it or they die.

Their suffering will surely cease, as the poor inherit the most.

[Sovaal]

A shame, but not surprising. Although the stated reasons for changing it are particulary worrisome.


No, they will just continue to suffer the same existence they have, just the homeless of a thousand years ago did, until they either some how pull themselves out of it or they die.

Their suffering will surely cease, as the poor inherit the most.

If there's one constant in this world its suffering.

[Samadhi]

Indiana on the other hand is doing the right thing, or at least this one shelter is



Is there just less feminists in Indiana or are they just less regular feminist?

https://www.wptv.com/news/national/dome ... R9y4wwqVIE

Indiana is as southern as you can get without going to the Ohio river.

I don't know what that's supposed to mean.

[-Ocelot-]

Imagine if we had a day without men. Like all men go on strike from their jobs, men stop doing basic household chores, men stop doing out in public except to protest and nothing goes back to normal till the shelter is built. I wonder if third wave mysandrists would still want this shit or if they would beg us to stop.

Remember that book "what do we need men for?" Well I was gonna answer that men are needed for reproduction at the very least, but then I remember that these pseudo feminists think having children is a patriarchal system of control and their genetics will not survive. They're doing us a favor in that regard

If someone hates men that much, they'd rather live in a crumbling world than admit being wrong.

Being obligated by society to have children are a means of control, however. One of the oldest.

[Sundiata]

Their suffering will surely cease, as the poor inherit the most.

If there's one constant in this world its suffering.

But not in heaven.

[Sovaal]

If there's one constant in this world its suffering.

But not in heaven.

Plenty of poor non-Christians. Hell, plenty of poor Christians who aren’t your particular denomination.

[Pacomia]

But not in heaven.

Plenty of poor non-Christians. Hell, plenty of poor Christians who aren’t your particular denomination.

https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says ... index.html

[Sovaal]

Plenty of poor non-Christians. Hell, plenty of poor Christians who aren’t your particular denomination.

https://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says ... index.html

K

[Sundiata]

But not in heaven.

Plenty of poor non-Christians. Hell, plenty of poor Christians who aren’t your particular denomination.

There is room in heaven for them too.

[Kowani]

Plenty of poor non-Christians. Hell, plenty of poor Christians who aren’t your particular denomination.

There is room in heaven for them too.

Heaven is eternal slavery, let’s not lie.

[Holy Tedalonia]

There is room in heaven for them too.

Heaven is eternal slavery, let’s not lie.

You sir, are deliberately being obtuse!

[Loben The 2nd]

There is room in heaven for them too.

Heaven is eternal slavery, let’s not lie.

Speak for yourself, non believer.

[Sovaal]

Plenty of poor non-Christians. Hell, plenty of poor Christians who aren’t your particular denomination.

There is room in heaven for them too.

Pretty sure that not how it works however.

[The Emerald Legion]

There is room in heaven for them too.

Heaven is eternal slavery, let’s not lie.

Now valhöll on the other hand....

[Kowani]

Heaven is eternal slavery, let’s not lie.

You sir, are deliberately being obtuse!

You wanna explain how?

Heaven is eternal slavery, let’s not lie.

Speak for yourself, non believer.

Lemme know how all that sinning goes in heaven.

[West Leas Oros 2]

It's what happens when you tolerate a hate movement and their apologists and allow them influence over institutions and other people. The way to fix it is to refuse to tolerate their gaslighting, propoganda, and the rationalizations of those apologists.

You wouldn't let an open and proud neo-nazi teach children, you shouldn't let a feminist either. Identifying as one should disqualify you from a whole host of professions and social settings, and we don't need to justify it to those of them who are still trying to pretend it's not a hate movement beyond "You're a member of a hate movement and that's the consensus of the majority of people and has been for a long time.".

The only good feminist is a feminist with no agency to enact their ideas or spread them, nor influence over other people. Those feminists who try and normalize and redeem the movement are also culpable because that inherently involves whitewashing its history and the impact of it, like trying to redeem the confederate flag or something.

As someone noted earlier, when the initial mens shelters were being considered by the founder of the worlds first womens shelter, that founder received countless death threats, harassment, and so on from feminists. Feminists then went on to found the duluth model and so on.

Because the left is made up of those who say "we stand up for the oppressed in society and [insert any political attack toward the right]..." but are really the ones covertly subverting societies under our collective noses. Wolves in sheep's clothing.

I don't know if you consider your own main views left or right, but that's how the left (progressives, socialists, feminists) generally operates.

You are delusional if you think that socialists are anything like the identitarians.

[Galloism]

You sir, are deliberately being obtuse!

You wanna explain how?

Speak for yourself, non believer.

Lemme know how all that sinning goes in heaven.

I will point out, by this metric (going against the laws of the ruling government brings consequences), any state - and I do mean any state - is slavery.

So, aside from a few pockets in Somalia, life is slavery.