50,000 GM Workers on Strike

[Kowani]

Did the failure of Attila prevent Odacer?

a strike is not evidence of capitalism eroding any more than a wave is evidence of a tsunami

Sigh.
Nah, it’s a pretty big indicator. You see, it’s been a very long time since we’ve had a strike, and this is a big strike. Not only that, it’s industrial workers who’re striking-typically seen as the respectable blue-collar jobs upon which America was built. But if they’re striking, it means conditions are becoming untenable.
Socialism is not built from rhetoric or ideology, it is built from the failures of capitalism.

[Kowani]

Sigh.
Nah, it’s a pretty big indicator. You see, it’s been a very long time since we’ve had a strike, and this is a big strike. Not only that, it’s industrial workers who’re striking-typically seen as the respectable blue-collar jobs upon which America was built. But if they’re striking, it means conditions are becoming untenable.
Socialism is not built from rhetoric or ideology, it is built from the failures of capitalism.

this is so easily disprovable that it's almost embarrassing.

scroll down to twenty first century.

keep trying to predict the return of christ.

Should’ve added “UAW strike”.

Now, actually engage the point.

[Kowani]

Should’ve added “UAW strike”.

Now, actually engage the point.

i already did.

this isn't the first strike in a long time. this is not even the first strike this decade. it's not unprecedented and does not show the erosion of capitalism. because believe it or not strikes can actually happen without signaling the second coming of marx.

Yes, I conceded that point. As I said (although I could’ve expressed it better), when I said first strike, I was referring to UAW strikes.
Now that we’ve got that out of the way, no. Never said it would bring about socialism. Burn down that strawman.

[Kowani]

Yes, I conceded that point. As I said (although I could’ve expressed it better), when I said first strike, I was referring to UAW strikes.
Now that we’ve got that out of the way, no. Never said it would bring about socialism. Burn down that strawman.

kind of seemed like that's what you meant when you said it was eroding capitalism but fine.

i've already made my point anyway. this isn't unprecedented and at most will probably last a few weeks. strikes happen under capitalism.

now if there were mass strikes all around the country at different indistries? then yes that would be unprecedented and could signal ill tidings for american capitalism.

but we aren't there so chill yeah?

Industrial workers tend to be a good weathervane.

[Kowani]

Industrial workers tend to be a good weathervane.

if these industrial workers are anything like the majority of the american working class then they aren't socialist.

And? The strike itself is irrelevant-it’s the message it sends.

[DARGLED]

Fire them all and rehire.

[Kowani]

Update: GM will provide health coverage.

[Telconi]

if these industrial workers are anything like the majority of the american working class then they aren't socialist.

And? The strike itself is irrelevant-it’s the message it sends.

The message it sends is that the union's membership considers their present employment with GM to be worth striking over.

This isn't necessarily indicative of any condition of the capitalistic system.

[Duvniask]

And? The strike itself is irrelevant-it’s the message it sends.

The message it sends is that the union's membership considers their present employment with GM to be worth striking over.

This isn't necessarily indicative of any condition of the capitalistic system.

Strikes are pretty much always indicative of some "condition" of the capitalist system in the sense that they result from tensions between employers and employees (or laborer and capitalist). That is not to say that strikes signal the immediate destruction of capitalism or something like that.

[Telconi]

The message it sends is that the union's membership considers their present employment with GM to be worth striking over.

This isn't necessarily indicative of any condition of the capitalistic system.

Strikes are pretty much always indicative of some "condition" of the capitalist system in the sense that they result from tensions between employers and employees (or laborer and capitalist). That is not to say that strikes signal the immediate destruction of capitalism or something like that.

Tension between a laborer and a capitalist doesn't imply tension between all labor and all capitalists.

[Duvniask]

Strikes are pretty much always indicative of some "condition" of the capitalist system in the sense that they result from tensions between employers and employees (or laborer and capitalist). That is not to say that strikes signal the immediate destruction of capitalism or something like that.

Tension between a laborer and a capitalist doesn't imply tension between all labor and all capitalists.

You have it the wrong order.

It is not that I use this to make an argument based on inference, although I could. It's more the other way around. I'm saying capitalism inevitably has these tensions and that strikes, when they do happen, reflect that.

[Telconi]

Tension between a laborer and a capitalist doesn't imply tension between all labor and all capitalists.

You have it the wrong order.

It is not that I use this to make an argument based on inference, although I could. It's more the other way around. I'm saying capitalism inevitably has these tensions and that strikes, when they do happen, reflect that.

It has tensions, surely. But these are normal occurrences, intrinsic to the operation of the system. Saying a trade union engaging in a strike during a labor dispute with a company indicates the demise of capitalism is like saying the flat tire I had on Monday indicates the demise of the automobile.

[South Odreria 2]

You have it the wrong order.

It is not that I use this to make an argument based on inference, although I could. It's more the other way around. I'm saying capitalism inevitably has these tensions and that strikes, when they do happen, reflect that.

It has tensions, surely. But these are normal occurrences, intrinsic to the operation of the system. Saying a trade union engaging in a strike during a labor dispute with a company indicates the demise of capitalism is like saying the flat tire I had on Monday indicates the demise of the automobile.

Yes, however, if car tires start to reliably seize power from motors and take cars wherever they want to go, then the automotive system may not last long. Not saying this is what is happening now of course.

[Conifer Grove]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwbzxemJZIc

There is power in a union!

[Shrillland]

GM and the UAW have reached a tentative agreement that will now go to the membership: https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/uaw-leaders-meet-review-tentative-161642667.html

The Lordstown, OH,; Warren, MI,; and Baltimore plants will close, a joint committee will be formed to discuss the impacts of electric and autonomous vehicles, health coverage will be untouched, and much about pay is mentioned as well.

[Ethel mermania]

GM and the UAW have reached a tentative agreement that will now go to the membership: https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/uaw-leaders-meet-review-tentative-161642667.html

The Lordstown, OH,; Warren, MI,; and Baltimore plants will close, a joint committee will be formed to discuss the impacts of electric and autonomous vehicles, health coverage will be untouched, and much about pay is mentioned as well.

Something in the middle, fair enough I guess

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

GM and the UAW have reached a tentative agreement that will now go to the membership: https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/uaw-leaders-meet-review-tentative-161642667.html

The Lordstown, OH,; Warren, MI,; and Baltimore plants will close, a joint committee will be formed to discuss the impacts of electric and autonomous vehicles, health coverage will be untouched, and much about pay is mentioned as well.

Better then nothing i guess?

[US-SSR]

GM and the UAW have reached a tentative agreement that will now go to the membership: https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/uaw-leaders-meet-review-tentative-161642667.html

The Lordstown, OH,; Warren, MI,; and Baltimore plants will close, a joint committee will be formed to discuss the impacts of electric and autonomous vehicles, health coverage will be untouched, and much about pay is mentioned as well.

Better then nothing i guess?

Immediate demands now, ultimate demands in due course.

[Infected Mushroom]

How dishonorable

Unless GM didn’t give the workers what they promised on paper (I highly doubt it), this strike is most unjustified

You can’t just strike one day because you say “oh I should be getting more than what I was promised”

[Farnhamia]

How dishonorable

Unless GM didn’t give the workers what they promised on paper (I highly doubt it), this strike is most unjustified

You can’t just strike one day because you say “oh I should be getting more than what I was promised”

You didn't spend a minute trying to find out what's behind this. WIki says, "During the Great Recession and economic uncertainty that followed, unionized automotive workers accepted concessions to allow GM and other companies to recover. Though GM has since received large tax breaks and returned to profitability, worker compensation has remained stagnant, and the company continues to shutter American facilities and move some jobs abroad." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Gene ... ors_strike

[Infected Mushroom]

How dishonorable

Unless GM didn’t give the workers what they promised on paper (I highly doubt it), this strike is most unjustified

You can’t just strike one day because you say “oh I should be getting more than what I was promised”

You didn't spend a minute trying to find out what's behind this. WIki says, "During the Great Recession and economic uncertainty that followed, unionized automotive workers accepted concessions to allow GM and other companies to recover. Though GM has since received large tax breaks and returned to profitability, worker compensation has remained stagnant, and the company continues to shutter American facilities and move some jobs abroad." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Gene ... ors_strike

Is GM in breach of contract though?

If not, then there isn’t really any legal obligation on GM to raise the wages more than what was promised on paper no?

[Farnhamia]

You didn't spend a minute trying to find out what's behind this. WIki says, "During the Great Recession and economic uncertainty that followed, unionized automotive workers accepted concessions to allow GM and other companies to recover. Though GM has since received large tax breaks and returned to profitability, worker compensation has remained stagnant, and the company continues to shutter American facilities and move some jobs abroad." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Gene ... ors_strike

Is GM in breach of contract though?

If not, then there isn’t really any legal obligation on GM to raise the wages more than what was promised on paper no?

The way it works is, the contract is about to expire - it actually did expire on September 14th - so the union says, "Hey, we want back some of the things we gave up so the company wouldn't fold." GM said, "LOL no." You didn't even look at the article I linked, did you?

[Page]

How dishonorable

Unless GM didn’t give the workers what they promised on paper (I highly doubt it), this strike is most unjustified

You can’t just strike one day because you say “oh I should be getting more than what I was promised”

A strike doesn't have to be ''justified.'' If the strikers' demands are too much and the strikers are replaceable, the employer will fire and replace them. But if the strikers are so numerous that they couldn't be easily replaced, if firing them all or letting the strike continue means the ruin of the company, then the strikers have the leverage to demand what they want and they can use that leverage to their advantage. Good for them.

[Ethel mermania]

How dishonorable

Unless GM didn’t give the workers what they promised on paper (I highly doubt it), this strike is most unjustified

You can’t just strike one day because you say “oh I should be getting more than what I was promised”

For someone who purports to have gone to law school, you really have absolutely no idea how contracts work.

When a contract expires, it is no longer in force and therefore legally speaking does not exist.

[Infected Mushroom]

Is GM in breach of contract though?

If not, then there isn’t really any legal obligation on GM to raise the wages more than what was promised on paper no?

The way it works is, the contract is about to expire - it actually did expire on September 14th - so the union says, "Hey, we want back some of the things we gave up so the company wouldn't fold." GM said, "LOL no." You didn't even look at the article I linked, did you?

It says the contract between UAW and GM is expired on Sept 14.

But the workers then go “on strike” (meaning they refuse to show up for work)

But how can they go to work at all... if no employment contract of any kind is in force?

Now I’m confused

There’s clearly some expectation by GM (that has legal basis) for the workers to continue to work. But if there’s no contract in force, then how does this obligation arise?

Also, I’m assuming that other than the contract between UAW (the Union?) and GM there’s also thousands of individual signed. Contracts right?

Or is it all subsumed?