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Do You Believe in Absolute Truth?

Poll ended at Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:35 am

Yes
15
36%
No
2
5%
Truth is relative
5
12%
I believe in absolute truth, but not absolute morality
10
24%
I believe it absolute morality, but not absolute truth
1
2%
Is anything real?
3
7%
Does my opinion change anything?
6
14%
Everything is black and white
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 42

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Napoleonic-Russia
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Philosophy Discussions

Postby Napoleonic-Russia » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:35 am

Here, people can bring up, discuss, and debate philosophical issues, concepts, and ideas. First thing to get the ball rolling: absolute truth and absolute morality. For some people, truth and morality will remain the same, regardless of what society or the history books say. For others, truth is something that is every changing and evolving, or doesn’t exist at all. This divides people between rationalists, and relativists. Personally, I believe that truth and morality is completely relative. I am a relativist, and for this reason. For absolute truth people, they believe in “truths”, so they must believe in Absolute Truth. Yet this states that people created absolute truth, and you must believe in it for it to be real. Also, truth and morality has changed so many times, it’s foolish to think just now we have figured out what is absolutely true. How about you guys? What are your views on it?
Last edited by Napoleonic-Russia on Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:55 am, edited 4 times in total.

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El-Amin Caliphate
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:42 am

OP needs more meat or the mods will lock it. Talk about Philosophy a d what you ascribe to. Since you wanna talk about Absolute truth and morality, give your views on it.
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Bombadil
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Postby Bombadil » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:43 am

“Think left and think right and think low and think high. Oh, the thinks you can think up if only you try!”

From that most eminent of philosophers Dr Theodore Geisel.

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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:50 am

You might want to read this and rework your OP.

As for morals: things we can think of as objective (not to murder or rape) are things that are beneficial to the maximum number of people. But religious morals are not absolute.

The OP needs to be expanded to be sure exactly what you mean.
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El-Amin Caliphate
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:55 am

Ok, my views:

Absolute Truth and Absolute Morality exist. They are divine principles set to guide humanity in right and wrong. There cannot be multiple, contradictory absolute truths, as that would confer many deities, which would wreak havoc on the universe. So there is one Absolute Truth and and one Absolute Morality created by one Absolute Supreme Being: Allah SWT.

Edit: Actually, Absolute Truth exists plainly objectively. For example 1 + 1 will always = 2 no matter what. Hydrogen will always consist of 1 proton, 1 neutron and 1 electron no matter what.
Last edited by El-Amin Caliphate on Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby The Snazzylands » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:55 am

I think that, due to our nature as subjective beings, it is impossible for us to know whether absolute truth exists, and if it did, it would be fundamentally unreachable for us. But the belief in objective truth and striving to get as close as possible to it are positive things imo, so it's good to assume that there is absolute truth.

Morality is something I see as ultimately subjective, though I believe we have an intrinsic "moral compass" or instincts we have developed by virtue of being social creatures. I'm talking about values that would help us survive and thrive as a species, and that practically all cultures agree are morally good: empathy, kindness, generosity, honesty, loyalty, and caring for ones' family and community, etc.
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El-Amin Caliphate
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:56 am

The Snazzylands wrote:I think that, due to our nature as subjective beings, it is impossible for us to know whether absolute truth exists, and if it did, it would be fundamentally unreachable for us. But the belief in objective truth and striving to get as close as possible to it are positive things imo, so it's good to assume that there is absolute truth.

Morality is something I see as ultimately subjective, though I believe we have an intrinsic "moral compass" or instincts we have developed by virtue of being social creatures. I'm talking about values that would help us survive and thrive as a species, and that practically all cultures agree are morally good: empathy, kindness, generosity, honesty, loyalty, and caring for ones' family and community, etc.

Well, those are examples of Absolute Morality.
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:58 am

Also, what if you believe in both Absolute Truth and Morality like me? Does the "Yes" option cover that?
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Napoleonic-Russia
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Postby Napoleonic-Russia » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:58 am

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Ok, my views:

Absolute Truth and Absolute Morality exist. They are divine principles set to guide humanity in right and wrong. There cannot be multiple, contradictory absolute truths, as that would confer many deities, which would wreak havoc on the universe. So there is one Absolute Truth and and one Absolute Morality created by one Absolute Supreme Being: Allah SWT.

But doesn’t this assume that absolute truth exists, thus using a belief to defend that exact belief? I disagree, as differing truths don’t have to conflict nor lead to havoc, while absolute truth CAN lead to havoc, trying to define the complexities and mysteries of the universe, and human soul?

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Novo Vaticanus
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Postby Novo Vaticanus » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:58 am

Where tf my Thomistic Catholic theologian fellas at

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El-Amin Caliphate
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:01 am

Napoleonic-Russia wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Ok, my views:

Absolute Truth and Absolute Morality exist. They are divine principles set to guide humanity in right and wrong. There cannot be multiple, contradictory absolute truths, as that would confer many deities, which would wreak havoc on the universe. So there is one Absolute Truth and and one Absolute Morality created by one Absolute Supreme Being: Allah SWT.

But doesn’t this assume that absolute truth exists, thus using a belief to defend that exact belief? I disagree, as differing truths don’t have to conflict nor lead to havoc, while absolute truth CAN lead to havoc, trying to define the complexities and mysteries of the universe, and human soul?

The one who created the human soul obvs knows what truths are held and which aren't, what morality should be upheld and what shouldn't. Also read my edited post, I made another paragraph about Absolute Truth.
Last edited by El-Amin Caliphate on Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Napoleonic-Russia » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:02 am

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Also, what if you believe in both Absolute Truth and Morality like me? Does the "Yes" option cover that?

Yes

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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:02 am

Napoleonic-Russia wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:Also, what if you believe in both Absolute Truth and Morality like me? Does the "Yes" option cover that?

Yes

Ok, thx
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Postby Napoleonic-Russia » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:03 am

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Napoleonic-Russia wrote:But doesn’t this assume that absolute truth exists, thus using a belief to defend that exact belief? I disagree, as differing truths don’t have to conflict nor lead to havoc, while absolute truth CAN lead to havoc, trying to define the complexities and mysteries of the universe, and human soul?

The one who created the human soul obvs knows what truths are held and which aren't, what morality should be upheld and what shouldn't. Also read my edited post, I made another paragraph about Absolute Truth.

So that means absolute truth isn’t eternal, nor universal, as it didn’t exist forever. Making it NOT absolute, and saying that the universe can function with no definite truth.

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Postby The Free Joy State » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:04 am

The Snazzylands wrote:
Morality is something I see as ultimately subjective, though I believe we have an intrinsic "moral compass" or instincts we have developed by virtue of being social creatures. I'm talking about values that would help us survive and thrive as a species, and that practically all cultures agree are morally good: empathy, kindness, generosity, honesty, loyalty, and caring for ones' family and community, etc.

There is actually evidence that suggests humans may well be born with empathy -- or (if not) at least develop it very early -- suggesting a kind of "moral compass", at least towards prosocial interactions (while not suggestive of an objective morality).

Research with infants aged 8-16 months tested infant distress to other infants' crying, their mother pretending to hit her thumb and the mother pretending to bump her knee and found that all the infants in the sample showed empathy.
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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El-Amin Caliphate
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:05 am

Napoleonic-Russia wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:The one who created the human soul obvs knows what truths are held and which aren't, what morality should be upheld and what shouldn't. Also read my edited post, I made another paragraph about Absolute Truth.

So that means absolute truth isn’t eternal, nor universal, as it didn’t exist forever. Making it NOT absolute, and saying that the universe can function with no definite truth.

What are you saying didn't exist forever?
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https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

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Postby Bombadil » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:05 am

I suppose one has to answer 'truth about what?'

There is truth without the human mind and then there's the fuzzy nature of perception. Hence that quote that the only consistent position of philosophers is that every other philosopher is wrong.
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Postby Napoleonic-Russia » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:06 am

The Free Joy State wrote:You might want to read this and rework your OP.

As for morals: things we can think of as objective (not to murder or rape) are things that are beneficial to the maximum number of people. But religious morals are not absolute.

The OP needs to be expanded to be sure exactly what you mean.

Even murder is subjective. We would either consider all military veterans and active members, along with police, as murderers, or no one as a murderer at all. This is the issue with absolute morality, and absolute truth gives birth to absolute morality.

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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:06 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
The Snazzylands wrote:
Morality is something I see as ultimately subjective, though I believe we have an intrinsic "moral compass" or instincts we have developed by virtue of being social creatures. I'm talking about values that would help us survive and thrive as a species, and that practically all cultures agree are morally good: empathy, kindness, generosity, honesty, loyalty, and caring for ones' family and community, etc.

There is actually evidence that suggests humans may well be born with empathy -- or (if not) at least develop it very early -- suggesting a kind of "moral compass", at least towards prosocial interactions (while not suggestive of an objective morality).

Research with infants aged 8-16 months tested infant distress to other infants' crying, their mother pretending to hit her thumb and the mother pretending to bump her knee and found that all the infants in the sample showed empathy.

Then why does it look like little kids don't care when another cries or gets mad? I'm not saying the study is bogus, but dang, kids, show some love!
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Napoleonic-Russia
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Postby Napoleonic-Russia » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:07 am

El-Amin Caliphate wrote:
Napoleonic-Russia wrote:So that means absolute truth isn’t eternal, nor universal, as it didn’t exist forever. Making it NOT absolute, and saying that the universe can function with no definite truth.

What are you saying didn't exist forever?

If it was created, then it didn’t exist before its creation.

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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:09 am

Napoleonic-Russia wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:You might want to read this and rework your OP.

As for morals: things we can think of as objective (not to murder or rape) are things that are beneficial to the maximum number of people. But religious morals are not absolute.

The OP needs to be expanded to be sure exactly what you mean.

Even murder is subjective. We would either consider all military veterans and active members, along with police, as murderers, or no one as a murderer at all. This is the issue with absolute morality, and absolute truth gives birth to absolute morality.

To do so would involve playing fast and loose with our acknowledged definition of murder, which is an illegal killing with malice aforethought.

Of course, you could ask how it would be for the military to bring down their opponents with cuddles and not killing (were you engaging in a thought experiment), but the fact is that murder has a definition.
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El-Amin Caliphate
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:10 am

Napoleonic-Russia wrote:
El-Amin Caliphate wrote:What are you saying didn't exist forever?

If it was created, then it didn’t exist before its creation.

That doesn't answer my question. What is "it" that you're talking about that didn't exist forever?
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El-Amin Caliphate
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:11 am

Napoleonic-Russia wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:You might want to read this and rework your OP.

As for morals: things we can think of as objective (not to murder or rape) are things that are beneficial to the maximum number of people. But religious morals are not absolute.

The OP needs to be expanded to be sure exactly what you mean.

Even murder is subjective. We would either consider all military veterans and active members, along with police, as murderers, or no one as a murderer at all. This is the issue with absolute morality, and absolute truth gives birth to absolute morality.

That's not what those mean, you're using them wrong.
Kubumba Tribe's sister nation. NOT A PUPPET! >w< In fact, this one came 1st.
Proud Full Member of the Council of Islamic Cooperation!^u^
I'm a (Pan) Islamist ;)
CLICK THIS
https://americanvision.org/948/theonomy-vs-theocracy/ wrote:God’s law cannot govern a nation where God’s law does not rule in the hearts of the people

Democracy and Freedom Index
Plaetopia wrote:Partly Free / Hybrid regime (score 4-6) El-Amin Caliphate (5.33)

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Napoleonic-Russia
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Postby Napoleonic-Russia » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:13 am

Bombadil wrote:I suppose one has to answer 'truth about what?'

There is truth without the human mind and then there's the fuzzy nature of perception. Hence that quote that the only consistent position of philosophers is that every other philosopher is wrong.

And thus each of us views reality differently, and to assume that no one ever came up with what was actually true dismisses every other advancement, and to say that our advancements now are absolute truth dismisses that great mind before that, then calling into question how to even tell, if they are true, why they don’t know ever truth?

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Postby Napoleonic-Russia » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:16 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
Napoleonic-Russia wrote:Even murder is subjective. We would either consider all military veterans and active members, along with police, as murderers, or no one as a murderer at all. This is the issue with absolute morality, and absolute truth gives birth to absolute morality.

To do so would involve playing fast and loose with our acknowledged definition of murder, which is an illegal killing with malice aforethought.

Of course, you could ask how it would be for the military to bring down their opponents with cuddles and not killing (were you engaging in a thought experiment), but the fact is that murder has a definition.


But the reason murder is consider is bad, is that it’s taking the life of another. It states the absolute truth that killing others is wrong. Yet we don’t treat killings for military purposes and executions as murder. Why is that? Maybe because absolute truth doesn’t exist.

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