Australia Recognises Jerusalem as Israeli Capital

[Shrillland]

From SBS: https://www.sbs.com.au/news/cabinet-set-to-formally-ratify-jerusalem-as-israel-s-capital?fbclid=IwAR1FYJq3DGj0aM4eI3Vdnfh_U3DdTpbJK7SW2gbMyQjOLN2iYT5DGTE3ecE

The Morrison government will formally recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital after a cabinet meeting but it won't be announced until the COAG meeting on Wednesday.

The Australian reports that the decision will be ratified by the cabinet at a meeting on Tuesday after the national security committee approved it on Monday night.

However, the embassy won't be moved from Tel Aviv just yet. Instead a consular office will be opened, the sources said, due to the cost of the move, pegged at $200 million.

The potential move comes despite a warning from Australia’s close Muslim-dominated neighbour, Indonesia.

In October, former Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull met with Indonesian President Joko Widodo in Bali as part of an Australian delegation attending a global conference. At the time, the Indonesian president warned of “serious concerns” about any move to Jerusalem.

"There is no question, were that move to occur, it would be met with a very negative reaction in Indonesia. This is after all the largest Muslim-majority country in the world," Mr Turnbull told reporters.

The government initially floated the prospect of shifting the embassy and following the lead of US President Donald Trump, during the final week of by-election campaigning in Wentworth, where more than 12 per cent of voters are Jewish.

Last year, Mr Trump recognised the disputed city of Jerusalem as Israel's capital - overturning decades of US policy in the Middle East.

"Israel is a sovereign nation with the right like every other sovereign nation to determine its own capital," the US leader said in a speech from the White House.
.
"Acknowledging this as a fact is a necessary condition for achieving peace," added the US leader, declaring: "It is time to officially recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel."

So that makes five nations that now recognise Jerusalem as the capital, the other four being the US, Vanuatu, Czechia, and Guatemala. Neighbouring Indonesia considers this somewhat provocative, and I have to agree with Widowo in that regard. It undermines any attempts at peace between the two sides, and will only serve to encourage other nations to disregard the complexities of the conflict between Israel and Palestine. On top of that, it mostly serves as a ploy to win Australia's evangelical vote in advance of the upcoming elections about six months.

What say you, NSG? And remember, as with all Israel-related threads, play nice.

EDIT 12/14: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-15/government-recognises-west-jerusalem-but-keeps-tel-aviv-embassy/10614226?smid=Page:%20ABC%20News-Facebook_Organic&WT.tsrc=Facebook_Organic&sf204317311=1

It's now official. West Jerusalem is formally recognised.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Palestine at this point should just begin negotiations to join Israel (with the guarantee of the protection of the local Arab culture and rights to Jerusalem, obviously).

They are fighting for a cause that has long been lost.

[Dazchan]

It's to be expected. Morrison has a disgusting level of hero worship for Trump. Anything Trump does, Morrison has to do the same. He even poses for the same stupid photos.

Hopefully it hasn't soured our relationship with Indonesia too much.

[Great Thallands]

Palestine at this point should just begin negotiations to join Israel (with the guarantee of the protection of the local Arab culture and rights to Jerusalem, obviously).

They are fighting for a cause that has long been lost.

I would agree with these people. Though Gaza could be given to Egypt as a sign of good faith.

[Kowani]

Inb4 “But Israel has no rights to exist!”

[Cedoria]

Inb4 “But Israel has no rights to exist!”

Within what borders should it exist? Notice those who make the 'right to exist' argument never specify. If they did, a lot would be cleared up,

It's not whether Israel exists, it's whether it exists as a colonial/imperial power which is permitted to annex and occupy territory that does not belong to it, paid for by American tax dollars.

Define its borders fairly, and the borders of its neighbours, and have them stay within it.

[Cedoria]

That said, Morrison is throwing a sop to the right-wing Netanyahu lobby here at home, who are unlikely to vote for his opponents anyway. Floating this didn't save him in Wentworth, I doubt it'll save him elsewhere, it's just a cynical vote-grubbed by a walking political corpse.

[Brasilia Brazil]

Their are a few other nations than the five you mentioned, Ill post them later on, Jair Bolsonaro promised to move Brazil's embassy in Israel to Jerusalem when he becomes President of Brazil in 2019, according to this source, The Arab League sent a letter to Jair Bolsonaro warning him the move could harm diplomatic relations with Brazil.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/12/ ... 05156.html

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Inb4 “But Israel has no rights to exist!”

Within what borders should it exist? Notice those who make the 'right to exist' argument never specify. If they did, a lot would be cleared up,

It's not whether Israel exists, it's whether it exists as a colonial/imperial power which is permitted to annex and occupy territory that does not belong to it, paid for by American tax dollars.

Define its borders fairly, and the borders of its neighbours, and have them stay within it.

I mean, if Israel would drop the whole Zionist schtick and reform as a federation of Palestinian Arabs, Jews and Middle Eastern Christians, I'd certainly end a lot of troubles for many.

[Pasong Tirad]

Within what borders should it exist? Notice those who make the 'right to exist' argument never specify. If they did, a lot would be cleared up,

It's not whether Israel exists, it's whether it exists as a colonial/imperial power which is permitted to annex and occupy territory that does not belong to it, paid for by American tax dollars.

Define its borders fairly, and the borders of its neighbours, and have them stay within it.

I mean, if Israel would drop the whole Zionist schtick and reform as a federation of Palestinian Arabs, Jews and Middle Eastern Christians, I'd certainly end a lot of troubles for many.

That's a possible solution. The other is to turn Jerusalem into an international city, an independent city-state.

[Kowani]

Inb4 “But Israel has no rights to exist!”

Within what borders should it exist? Notice those who make the 'right to exist' argument never specify. If they did, a lot would be cleared up,

As big a fan I am of a 2-State solution with nobody getting Jerusalem, the original borders were...questionable at best.

It's not whether Israel exists, it's whether it exists as a colonial/imperial power which is permitted to annex and occupy territory that does not belong to it, paid for by American tax dollars.

Considering that Israel was the defender in the 6-day War, I’d say they earned that territory.

Define its borders fairly, and the borders of its neighbours, and have them stay within it.

Fairly? No matter what the borders turn out to be, someone will end up pissed, Jewish or Arabic.

[Shrillland]

Inb4 “But Israel has no rights to exist!”

Within what borders should it exist? Notice those who make the 'right to exist' argument never specify. If they did, a lot would be cleared up,

It's not whether Israel exists, it's whether it exists as a colonial/imperial power which is permitted to annex and occupy territory that does not belong to it, paid for by American tax dollars.

Define its borders fairly, and the borders of its neighbours, and have them stay within it.

As I see it, the best option should be the 1967 frontiers with East Jerusalem going to Palestine. People who live in Jerusalem would have full rights to travel between the two sections of the city without hindrance regardless of citizenship. There would also be a loose border a la Ireland and Northern Ireland, but there would still be security measures for as long as groups like Hamas remain a threat, which wouldn't be too long given that the Palestinian Authority now hates them almost as much as the Israelis. Also, there would be unrestricted travel between Gaza and the West Bank.

[Temporarrium]

Don't a lot of people ever get tired of the getting-threatened-by-Muslim-countries schtick? Honestly if they just take a few steps back and let the countries decide freely what to make of the situation in Jerusalem, the whole Palestine-Israel conflict might come closer to a better resolution. It is irritating, not being able to choose independently because of some neighbor's majority religion.

[Shrillland]

Don't a lot of people ever get tired of the getting-threatened-by-Muslim-countries schtick? Honestly if they just take a few steps back and let the countries decide freely what to make of the situation in Jerusalem, the whole Palestine-Israel conflict might come closer to a better resolution. It is irritating, not being able to choose independently because of some neighbor's majority religion.

I know, right? But Australia has made its decision, albeit for five months if Labor wins and Shorten undoes it.

[Prolific Sherpaposting]

Good.

[Cedoria]

Within what borders should it exist? Notice those who make the 'right to exist' argument never specify. If they did, a lot would be cleared up,

As big a fan I am of a 2-State solution with nobody getting Jerusalem, the original borders were...questionable at best.

It's not whether Israel exists, it's whether it exists as a colonial/imperial power which is permitted to annex and occupy territory that does not belong to it, paid for by American tax dollars.

Considering that Israel was the defender in the 6-day War, I’d say they earned that territory.

Define its borders fairly, and the borders of its neighbours, and have them stay within it.

Fairly? No matter what the borders turn out to be, someone will end up pissed, Jewish or Arabic.

Within what borders should it exist? Notice those who make the 'right to exist' argument never specify. If they did, a lot would be cleared up,

It's not whether Israel exists, it's whether it exists as a colonial/imperial power which is permitted to annex and occupy territory that does not belong to it, paid for by American tax dollars.

Define its borders fairly, and the borders of its neighbours, and have them stay within it.

As I see it, the best option should be the 1967 frontiers with East Jerusalem going to Palestine. People who live in Jerusalem would have full rights to travel between the two sections of the city without hindrance regardless of citizenship. There would also be a loose border a la Ireland and Northern Ireland, but there would still be security measures for as long as groups like Hamas remain a threat, which wouldn't be too long given that the Palestinian Authority now hates them almost as much as the Israelis. Also, there would be unrestricted travel between Gaza and the West Bank.

Those are all accurate, but again, this is not the issue. The issue is that neither the present government of Israel, nor those who demand its 'right to exist' have ever defined where they think its permanent borders should exist. I'm fine with a nationstate of Israel existing, not an imperial state which just claims the right to wage pre-emptive war and seize territory where it chooses. The Israeli government defining what borders it would be willing to settle for would end the principle roadblock to peace.

[Liriena]

Israel keeps getting the special snowflake treatment, along with Saudi Arabia, despite being a semi-genocidal apartheid state.

[Temporarrium]

Don't a lot of people ever get tired of the getting-threatened-by-Muslim-countries schtick? Honestly if they just take a few steps back and let the countries decide freely what to make of the situation in Jerusalem, the whole Palestine-Israel conflict might come closer to a better resolution. It is irritating, not being able to choose independently because of some neighbor's majority religion.

I know, right? But Australia has made its decision, albeit for five months if Labor wins and Shorten undoes it.

What matters to me is that Australia chooses a side or stance independently, without undue influence.

[Cedoria]

I know, right? But Australia has made its decision, albeit for five months if Labor wins and Shorten undoes it.

What matters to me is that Australia chooses a side or stance independently, without undue influence.

We've never done that, and still arent. Morrison's just trying to borrow some of Trump's street cred with the hard-right to avert electoral wipeout next year.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

Israel keeps getting the special snowflake treatment, along with Saudi Arabia, despite being a semi-genocidal apartheid state.

You deny potential signs of a crisis against white folk in South Africa, yet boldly claim an Arab genocide in Israel.

If anything, it's Israel's neighbors that want to wipe the latter off the face of the Earth (and attempted to do so multiple times).

[Shrillland]

Israel keeps getting the special snowflake treatment, along with Saudi Arabia, despite being a semi-genocidal apartheid state.

In Australia's case, just as with ours, it was to appease the Christian right. Their election will likely be in May, and the Coalition isn't doing to well in the polls at the moment.

[Cedoria]

Israel keeps getting the special snowflake treatment, along with Saudi Arabia, despite being a semi-genocidal apartheid state.

In Australia's case, just as with ours, it was to appease the Christian right. Their election will likely be in May, and the Coalition isn't doing to well in the polls at the moment.

The Christian right are not the group that are planning to wipe them out in the election though, making this a useless gesture.

[Liriena]

Israel keeps getting the special snowflake treatment, along with Saudi Arabia, despite being a semi-genocidal apartheid state.

You deny potential signs of a crisis against white folk in South Africa, yet boldly claim an Arab genocide in Israel.

When was the last time the South African military used deadly weapons (including tanks) against white civilians and foreign journalists?

If anything, it's Israel's neighbors that want to wipe the latter off the face of the Earth (and attempted to do so multiple times).

Both things can be true at the same time. Israel routinely violates the human rights of the Palestinian people, and some of its neighbors also want to commit genocide against the Israelis.

[Wunderstrafanstalt]

To be honest, I don't really see the point of this and I only see more fuel added to the fire. I happened to live in Indonesia, and this definitely will put our bilateral relationship in a predicament.

You see, the government doesn't really have anything against Israel . But antisemitism here is an incredibly powerful force, and seeing how one blasphemy case convinced a million fundamentalists to occupy the capital city, Jokowi (the president) would be stupid to stay silent. Especially since his re-election bid is plagued with hoax about him being 'communist', 'not real islam', 'Chinese-born' etc (the target of that campaign is the poor and stupid a.k.a a lot of people).

With the majority of people brainwashed by rampant antisemitist propaganda, Indonesia will greatly oppose the move and I support it as a necessary evil. Otherwise it might result in a) rioting or b) Jokowi losing to his right wing opponent, which literally ran under racist and fundamentalist platform - I don't see how it will improve the present condition.

[Western Vale Confederacy]

You deny potential signs of a crisis against white folk in South Africa, yet boldly claim an Arab genocide in Israel.

When was the last time the South African military used deadly weapons (including tanks) against white civilians and foreign journalists?

If anything, it's Israel's neighbors that want to wipe the latter off the face of the Earth (and attempted to do so multiple times).

Both things can be true at the same time. Israel routinely violates the human rights of the Palestinian people, and some of its neighbors also want to commit genocide against the Israelis.

I'd argue that the Israelis wouldn't be very friendly by default towards an openly violent Palestinian group that incessantly launches rockets into Israeli territory, causing civilian casualties and material damages.

The entire conflict is just some messy shitfest anyways because neither side refuse to even initiate talks about de-escalating the conflict.