Remembering December 7th, 1941

[Atheris]

maybe because the rape of nanking was overshadowed by the murder of over 10 million innocent people

Opposed to invading it, getting almost entire population killed, and taking heavy losses?

Okay, let's compare.

In Nanking, 200,000 to 300,000 people were killed.

In the Holocaust, 11-17 million people were killed, including over a million children.

[Novus America]

hahah no. Now let´s say they somehow wiped out most of the US Pacific Fleet. Then what? If you think they could have invaded the US you living in la la land. The US would have easily been able to outproduce Japan and rebuild it's fleet and counterattack.

Japan didn’t need to beat USA it just needed time to consolidate its hold in Asia and become the regional power without interference - it was about the long game of entrenching themselves first. Of course it miscalculated on those objectives and the US response didn’t give them the foothold that wanted

It could never get enough time. Japan’s only hope was the US having no will to fight, which was obviously not the case. The entire premise that one attack could knock the US was stupid.

[Atheris]

Japan didn’t need to beat USA it just needed time to consolidate its hold in Asia and become the regional power without interference - it was about the long game of entrenching themselves first. Of course it miscalculated on those objectives and the US response didn’t give them the foothold that wanted

It could never get enough time. Japan’s only hope was the US having no will to fight, which was obviously not the case. The entire premise that one attack could knock the US was stupid.

That's stupid, of course, but the decision of the attack being Pearl Harbor was pretty smart.

It was the closest naval base to Japan and the closest naval base with the most amount of ships stationed (100 exactly).

[Novus America]

Opposed to invading it, getting almost entire population killed, and taking heavy losses?

Okay, let's compare.

In Nanking, 200,000 to 300,000 people were killed.

In the Holocaust, 11-17 million people were killed, including over a million children.

That is a silly comparison. The Nanking Massacre was just one slice of Japanese horror.
It is estimated 17 to 22 million Chinese citizens died in the war.

[Novus America]

It could never get enough time. Japan’s only hope was the US having no will to fight, which was obviously not the case. The entire premise that one attack could knock the US was stupid.

That's stupid, of course, but the decision of the attack being Pearl Harbor was pretty smart.

It was the closest naval base to Japan and the closest naval base with the most amount of ships stationed (100 exactly).

Well it was only “smart” from a short term, tactical perspective. From a bigger strategic perspective it was suicide to attack the US at all.

Japan’s objective was not to merely sink a bunch of ships. It was to end the war quickly.
It could never achieve that objective.

[Atheris]

Okay, let's compare.

In Nanking, 200,000 to 300,000 people were killed.

In the Holocaust, 11-17 million people were killed, including over a million children.

That is a silly comparison. The Nanking Massacre was just one slice of Japanese horror.
It is estimated 17 to 22 million Chinese citizens died in the war.

Compared to 60 to 70 million killed during WW2?

The allies (not including China) had around 59,000,000 to 61,000,000 people dead.

If you take the difference from the min and max and subtract around 9 to 11 million from Italy, that leaves...

33 to 37 million killed by Germany alone, not including the Holocaust.

Add the Holocaust and you have 44 to 64 people killed.

By Germany alone.

[Novus America]

That is a silly comparison. The Nanking Massacre was just one slice of Japanese horror.
It is estimated 17 to 22 million Chinese citizens died in the war.

Compared to 60 to 70 million killed during WW2?

The allies (not including China) had around 59,000,000 to 61,000,000 people dead.

If you take the difference from the min and max and subtract around 9 to 11 million from Italy, that leaves...

33 to 37 million killed by Germany alone, not including the Holocaust.

Add the Holocaust and you have 44 to 64 people killed.

By Germany alone.

Not only Chinese civilians died. But sure the Germans may have killed more, but what is the point? Germans killing more does not in anyway mitigate or forgive Japanese crimes.

[Mohacian]

Well Pearl Harbor failed the battle BUTT.... theres more, the U.S declared a re-match battle against the Japanese military and the American military BOMBED Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Well theres a lot more that happened but yeah sure

True

[The Untied Federation of Russia]

Also one thing to note I forgot to mention in the OP is that Japan never learns from the past.

For example in world war 1 Germany attacked American ships it dragged the US into the war (Even though the US had less of a impact in the war since they joined in late)

And then skip ahead to World War 2 and we see Japan making the same mistakes Germany made in the first world war.

[Earth Luna and Mars]

Also one thing to note I forgot to mention in the OP is that Japan never learns from the past.

For example in world war 1 Germany attacked American ships it dragged the US into the war (Even though the US had less of a impact in the war since they joined in late)

And then skip ahead to World War 2 and we see Japan making the same mistakes Germany made in the first world war.

To be honest the entire Axis was a joke... Germany might've done better if it worked alone and not piss Russia off but, that's another story for another time.

Japan doomed the alliance even more since they attacked Pearl Harbor and got America into the war.

[The Galactic Liberal Democracy]

Opposed to invading it, getting almost entire population killed, and taking heavy losses?

Okay, let's compare.

In Nanking, 200,000 to 300,000 people were killed.

In the Holocaust, 11-17 million people were killed, including over a million children.

The fire bombs and atom bombs were the reason they surrendered. If we hadn’t used them, Japan would have needed to be taken by a ground assault. I’m assuming you don’t care to much about the lives of the U.S. soldiers, so I’ll give you more information than that. First, Stalin was willing to give millions of troops to help. They would likely be men and women, young and mostly conscripts. Second, there would be the death of nearly every Japanese soldier, not all of which wanted to fight in the first place. Lastly, every last citizen had been ordered to die. They planned to attach mines to children and force families that were hopelessly outnumbered to fight. With the current mentality, almost all the population would die.

[Cetacea]

Also one thing to note I forgot to mention in the OP is that Japan never learns from the past.

For example in world war 1 Germany attacked American ships it dragged the US into the war (Even though the US had less of a impact in the war since they joined in late)

And then skip ahead to World War 2 and we see Japan making the same mistakes Germany made in the first world war.

To be honest the entire Axis was a joke... Germany might've done better if it worked alone and not piss Russia off but, that's another story for another time.

Japan doomed the alliance even more since they attacked Pearl Harbor and got America into the war.

Japan only got into the tripartite agreement to get fuel denied to it by the us but I don’t think Japan cared too much about the other axis members. As long as Germany kept Britain occupied japan for had free reign in SE Asia except for US interference

[NERVUN]

hahah no. Now let´s say they somehow wiped out most of the US Pacific Fleet. Then what? If you think they could have invaded the US you living in la la land. The US would have easily been able to outproduce Japan and rebuild it's fleet and counterattack.

Japan didn’t need to beat USA it just needed time to consolidate its hold in Asia and become the regional power without interference - it was about the long game of entrenching themselves first. Of course it miscalculated on those objectives and the US response didn’t give them the foothold that wanted

It didn't help itself by getting punch drunk and expanding far, far beyond what the IJN said it could actually defend.

[Mohacian]

Japan didn’t need to beat USA it just needed time to consolidate its hold in Asia and become the regional power without interference - it was about the long game of entrenching themselves first. Of course it miscalculated on those objectives and the US response didn’t give them the foothold that wanted

It didn't help itself by getting punch drunk and expanding far, far beyond what the IJN said it could actually defend.

Very true

[Katganistan]

My students are getting their report cards on December 7th.

[Monsa]

Any today is the 77th Anniversey of the Attack on Pearl Harbor.

[New haven america]

It could never get enough time. Japan’s only hope was the US having no will to fight, which was obviously not the case. The entire premise that one attack could knock the US was stupid.

That's stupid, of course, but the decision of the attack being Pearl Harbor was pretty smart.

Obviously not.

[Page]

Do you think Japan was sucessful in knocking out the U.S. Pacific fleet or did they fail in doing so by dragging America into World War 2?

The answer to this question isn't a matter of opinion, we know how Pearl Harbor ended up for Japan.

[Hammer Britannia]

Do you think Japan was sucessful in knocking out the U.S. Pacific fleet or did they fail in doing so by dragging America into World War 2?

The answer to this question isn't a matter of opinion, we know how Pearl Harbor ended up for Japan.

They didn't weaken the Giant, they just kicked it in the balls and made it really... really mad.

[Ethel mermania]

My students are getting their report cards on December 7th.

Tora, Tora, Tora!

[Page]

That is a silly comparison. The Nanking Massacre was just one slice of Japanese horror.
It is estimated 17 to 22 million Chinese citizens died in the war.

Compared to 60 to 70 million killed during WW2?

The allies (not including China) had around 59,000,000 to 61,000,000 people dead.

If you take the difference from the min and max and subtract around 9 to 11 million from Italy, that leaves...

33 to 37 million killed by Germany alone, not including the Holocaust.

Add the Holocaust and you have 44 to 64 people killed.

By Germany alone.

I don't think atrocities can be measured by death toll alone. Who is worse, a dictator who orders a bombing that kills 100 civilians, or a serial killer who personally rapes, tortures, and kills 10 people?

There are several good reasons to say that the actions of Nazi Germany in World War 2 were more heinous than that of other countries, but there is no objective way to rank crimes against humanity.

[Earth Luna and Mars]

Welp the Day Of Infamy is here! May we never forget the events that took place at Pearl Harbor.

((Which is ironic to say since every American citizen forgets Pearl Harbor))

[Steampunk World War 1]

Welp the Day Of Infamy is here! May we never forget the events that took place at Pearl Harbor.

((Which is ironic to say since every American citizen forgets Pearl Harbor))

We will never forget Pearl Harbor as long as historians keep talking about it in history. Some Americans will forget it but as long we learn from the mistakes in our past we will pave a way to prevent more disasters like Pearl Harbor and 9/11

[Page]

Welp the Day Of Infamy is here! May we never forget the events that took place at Pearl Harbor.

((Which is ironic to say since every American citizen forgets Pearl Harbor))

Time is a powerful force. If I were to do a comedy bit about 9/11, a lot of people would be offended, but if I were to joke about the Black Plague in Medieval Europe, no one is crying out "Millions of people died, you can't joke about that!" because it's been hundreds of years. Centuries later, events like 9/11 and the Holocaust will still be a part of history, but with no emotions attached, just like now there are no emotions attached to the Black Plague or the Mongols' burning and raping cities or Caesar's murder and enslavement of millions of Gauls.

We're soon approaching a time in which no living person remembers Pearl Harbor, it will be even more forgotten then than it is now. I don't see this as a bad thing or a good thing, that's just the way it is.

[Libertas Omnium Maximus]

It was a pretty shocking and ballsy move. Though if I remember correctly, didn’t they fail to deal any real damage to the station’s infrastructure (at least when it came to fuel) and missed all the U.S. aircraft carriers (who were out on a training exercise)?

Not to say that it wasn’t a good move, or that we don’t have the benefit of hindsight, but the surprise attack mostly ended up angering America more than crippling it. Though, in all fairness, I highly doubt there was any scenario Japan wouldn’t have hard to wear the U.S. down before they gave up, which means it was a lost cause from the beginning.

Simple answer, yes.