Socialist Discussion Thread

[Oppermenia]

Just a thread for Socialists to have interesting discussions. Don't know if this has been done before, but thought I'd put something like this up. We can get interesting discussions out of it. To kick of the discussion, I consider myself a Socialist, but I'm more of a Social Democrat that leans Socialist.
I believe that capitalism is a flawed system. In theory, it's fine. It allows people to have economic opportunity, start businesses, and make sure that it's not just the wealthy that can become wealthy. However, it's often unfair, as in the U.S., for example, it's become something where mainly the people that are already wealthy can succeed, and they can be unfair to their workers. It's become the opposite of what it was meant for: a form of oppression.
Then there's socialism. It's good in theory. Collective ownership of the economy, seeing every citizen as equals. With this system, everyone can have an equal say and get everything they need. However, then you have to give up economic freedom. I think it would be hard to implement socialism in countries like the U.S. where capitalism has worked for so long, especially if it were a change from capitalism to Marxist socialism.
I don't completely agree with either system. I think they both have their flaws. However, I believe if you make socialistic reforms and adopt socialistic policies within a capitalist country and/or society, then that can be an ideal system. It can fix the flaws of both systems, and give us the benefits.
You see, I don't believe it's one or the other, but a combination of both that makes for the ideal system.
Anyway, that's just to kick of the discussion. Those are my thoughts, now what are yours? Let's try to make for a friendly discussion, not a heated argument or attack on people's belief's.
This thread is mainly for socialists, but capitalists are still welcome to come on and contribute to the discussion.
Please, none of you attack anyone for their beliefs, or get into a heated argument. Make your posts respectful to the person you reply to, and I hope we can have some good discussions.

[Nazi Norway]

Well the USA constantly oppresses the prole and they just care about money and power

[Oppermenia]

Well the USA constantly oppresses the prole and they just care about money and power

You're not wrong.

[Valentine Z]

I admit, I used to be a pretty hardcore socialist and all that. I mean, the idea of everyone getting equal wealth and state-controlled economy, it's a dream, right?

Well, as much as I love the probable utopia, real life works in such a way that money makes the world go around. We need the captialist system so that there is a motivation to get something done, to get the money for whatever stuff we want. I know, I know, materialism and all that, but hey, it's nice to save up and buy a sweet camera lens or take a vacation somewhere now and then.

True socialism and equality is also going to mess things up hard for everyone, and for human development. Why aspire to do something better when you will get the same amount for working in the state-owned industries? Ideas and inventions will become stagnant.

Oppression of the masses? I mean yeah, it happens, but it's more of the corrupt few, not the entire capitalist structure being rotten.

A mixture of both can work too. Mainly capitalist, with a safety net and welfare handouts for those that are in hard times.

Just my opinion. I'm sure there may be errors on the way I think of both systems, but this is my understanding on a basic level. There are so many flavors of socialism and capitalism, so YMMV.

[Oppermenia]

I admit, I used to be a pretty hardcore socialist and all that. I mean, the idea of everyone getting equal wealth and state-controlled economy, it's a dream, right?

Well, as much as I love the probable utopia, real life works in such a way that money makes the world go around. We need the captialist system so that there is a motivation to get something done, to get the money for whatever stuff we want. I know, I know, materialism and all that, but hey, it's nice to save up and buy a sweet camera lens or take a vacation somewhere now and then.

True socialism and equality is also going to mess things up hard for everyone, and for human development. Why aspire to do something better when you will get the same amount for working in the state-owned industries? Ideas and inventions will become stagnant.

Oppression of the masses? I mean yeah, it happens, but it's more of the corrupt few, not the entire capitalist structure being rotten.

A mixture of both can work too. Mainly capitalist, with a safety net and welfare handouts for those that are in hard times.

Just my opinion. I'm sure there may be errors on the way I think of both systems, but this is my understanding on a basic level. There are so many flavors of socialism and capitalism, so YMMV.

I agree with that a lot. The capitalist system already works, and socialism has its flaws.
I think, though, that capitalism has become the opposite of what it was meant to be. Now, instead of giving more economic freedom, it hinders economic freedom.
I think we need a capitalist system as a foundation, with socialistic policies in place to make things more fair and less oppressive. Like welfare, and even just regulating the market.

[Oppermenia]

Calling all socialists, and I guess just leftists in general. Let’s discuss socialist and leftist things in this thread.

[Page]

I'm a libertarian socialist. I believe an ideal society is one in which land and raw natural resources are collective property and universal basic income is distributed to all, while businesses owned by workers compete with one another in a free market.

[Cekoviu]

-> viewtopic.php?f=20&t=449364

[Page]

Oppression of the masses? I mean yeah, it happens, but it's more of the corrupt few, not the entire capitalist structure being rotten.

A rattlesnake is not evil. When it bites and inject its venom, it is not doing so out of malice for its target, but rather because it is its nature. I see capitalism the same way. To cause harm is a byproduct of its nature, even if it intends no such thing.

[Kustonia]

I absolutely abhor capitalism, but that doesn't mean that I like equality. Not everything is exactly the same, nor are any two people.

I prefer a type of National socialism where the people of a nation determine what is best for their country, rather than cosmopolitan mobs deciding the future of the whole.

[Page]

I absolutely abhor capitalism, but that doesn't mean that I like equality. Not everything is exactly the same, nor are any two people.

I prefer a type of National socialism where the people of a nation determine what is best for their country, rather than cosmopolitan mobs deciding the future of the whole.

National socialism is no more socialism than the Democratic Peoples' Republic of Korea is democratic.

[Cekoviu]

I absolutely abhor capitalism, but that doesn't mean that I like equality. Not everything is exactly the same, nor are any two people.

I prefer a type of National socialism where the people of a nation determine what is best for their country, rather than cosmopolitan mobs deciding the future of the whole.

the people deciding what's best sounds an awful lot like democracy. sure that's not what you're advocating?

[Kustonia]

I absolutely abhor capitalism, but that doesn't mean that I like equality. Not everything is exactly the same, nor are any two people.

I prefer a type of National socialism where the people of a nation determine what is best for their country, rather than cosmopolitan mobs deciding the future of the whole.

the people deciding what's best sounds an awful lot like democracy. sure that's not what you're advocating?

Democracy is mob rule, I don't like mob rule at all. I prefer syndicates that create vanguards to represent their interests.

[Nekokuni]

There is already a Left-Wing Discussion Thread, this is utterly pointless.

I absolutely abhor capitalism, but that doesn't mean that I like equality. Not everything is exactly the same, nor are any two people.

I prefer a type of National socialism where the people of a nation determine what is best for their country, rather than cosmopolitan mobs deciding the future of the whole.

the people deciding what's best sounds an awful lot like democracy. sure that's not what you're advocating?

It seems like he wants to prevent Jews from voting.

[Kustonia]

I absolutely abhor capitalism, but that doesn't mean that I like equality. Not everything is exactly the same, nor are any two people.

I prefer a type of National socialism where the people of a nation determine what is best for their country, rather than cosmopolitan mobs deciding the future of the whole.

National socialism is no more socialism than the Democratic Peoples' Republic of Korea is democratic.

Socialism has to do with collective ownership of the means of production. That's exactly what I am advocating, not internationalism.

[Kustonia]

There is already a Left-Wing Discussion Thread, this is utterly pointless.

the people deciding what's best sounds an awful lot like democracy. sure that's not what you're advocating?

It seems like he wants to prevent Jews from voting.

No, Jews are allowed to vote in Israel.

[Nekokuni]

There is already a Left-Wing Discussion Thread, this is utterly pointless.

It seems like he wants to prevent Jews from voting.

No, Jews are allowed to vote in Israel.

“in Israel.”

Oh boy, here we go again.

[Oppermenia]

There is already a Left-Wing Discussion Thread, this is utterly pointless.

the people deciding what's best sounds an awful lot like democracy. sure that's not what you're advocating?

It seems like he wants to prevent Jews from voting.

So? Why can’t we talk about specifically socialism in this thread? I mean, left wing embodies a number of things, not just socialism.

[Foryis]

I absolutely abhor capitalism, but that doesn't mean that I like equality. Not everything is exactly the same, nor are any two people.

I prefer a type of National socialism where the people of a nation determine what is best for their country, rather than cosmopolitan mobs deciding the future of the whole.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

[Kustonia]

No, Jews are allowed to vote in Israel.

“in Israel.”

Oh boy, here we go again.

I see that you are also a National Syndicalist in your signature, same here.

[Foryis]

No, Jews are allowed to vote in Israel.

“in Israel.”

Oh boy, here we go again.

Of course Jews had to be dragged into this.

[Auzkhia]

I just call myself a socialist, I'm open to a variety of tactics, but my goal is to abolish capitalism by any means necessary, though I prefer peaceful means over violent revolution. But I wouldn't hesitate to join said revolution. I believe socialism is an international movement, and ideally we'd abolish the nation-state after the revolution. I'm more sympathetic with anarchists than authcoms.

Socialism is basically a democratic economy.

I'm a libertarian socialist. I believe an ideal society is one in which land and raw natural resources are collective property and universal basic income is distributed to all, while businesses owned by workers compete with one another in a free market.

This is what I also believe, so me too. UBI would help us deal with automation since automated capitalism would be a humanitarian disaster of the highest degree.

[Kustonia]

There is already a Left-Wing Discussion Thread, this is utterly pointless.

It seems like he wants to prevent Jews from voting.

So? Why can’t we talk about specifically socialism in this thread? I mean, left wing embodies a number of things, not just socialism.

I'm a Right-Wing Socialist. Do I get to express my views on this forum?

[Kustonia]

“in Israel.”

Oh boy, here we go again.

Of course Jews had to be dragged into this.

Nekokuni mentioned it first. I said nothing of Jews until she brought it up.

[Oppermenia]

So? Why can’t we talk about specifically socialism in this thread? I mean, left wing embodies a number of things, not just socialism.

I'm a Right-Wing Socialist. Do I get to express my views on this forum?

Good point