Another day, another burqa ban(in Denmark)

[Shrillland]

From the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/31/denmark-passes-law-banning-burqa-and-niqab

Denmark has joined several other European countries in banning garments that cover the face, including Islamic veils such as the niqab and burqa, in a move condemned by human rights campaigners as “neither necessary nor proportionate”.

In a 75-30 vote with 74 absentees on Thursday, Danish lawmakers approved the law presented by the centre-right governing coalition. The government said it is not aimed at any religions and does not ban headscarves, turbans or the traditional Jewish skull cap.

But the law is popularly known as the “burqa ban” and is mostly seen as being directed at the dress worn by some Muslim women. Few Muslim women in Denmark wear full-face veils.

The justice minister, Søren Pape Poulsen, said it would be up to police officers to use their common sense when they see people violating the law, which comes into force on 1 August.

The legislation allows people to cover their face when there is a “recognisable purpose” such as cold weather or complying with other legal requirements, for example using motorcycle helmets under Danish traffic rules.

Those violating the law risk a fine of 1,000 kroner (£118). Repeat offenders could be fined up to 10,000 kroner or jailed for up to six months.

Austria, France and Belgium have similar laws.

Gauri van Gulik, Amnesty International’s Europe director, said of the Danish decision: “All women should be free to dress as they please and to wear clothing that expresses their identity or beliefs. This ban will have a particularly negative impact on Muslim women who choose to wear the niqab or burqa.

“While some specific restrictions on the wearing of full-face veils for the purposes of public safety may be legitimate, this blanket ban is neither necessary nor proportionate and violates the rights to freedom of expression and religion.

“If the intention of this law was to protect women’s rights, it fails abjectly. Instead, the law criminalises women for their choice of clothing and in so doing flies in the face of those freedoms Denmark purports to uphold.”

Associated Press contributed to this report

*sigh*

Well, Denmark's Folketing voted to ban the burqa and the niqab with over 40% of the chamber absent. I understand that it upsets a few people, but there's no need to resort to banning these things and meddling with other people.

What say you, NSG? And bear in mind that there will be no religious flamewars on my watch.

[Likar]

Dangit! I think it would be obvious to see a bomb in a burqa.......

[Martian Alliance]

It's weird because you'd think the USA would be more socially conservative. On issues of freedom of speech and expression they're much better though. France had a burka ban, Switzerland banned minarets, and now Denmark is doing too. I understand that it comes from a culture of oppressing women, but if they freely choose to wear it should of course be allowed.

[Shrillland]

It's weird because you'd think the USA would be more socially conservative. On issues of freedom of speech and expression they're much better though. France had a burka ban, Switzerland banned minarets, and now Denmark is doing too. I understand that it comes from a culture of oppressing women, but if they freely choose to wear it should of course be allowed.

It's not that they're more socially conservative so much as they're more militantly secular...or so they say. France banned all religious symbols, this specifically singles out traditionally Islamic face coverings. Islamophobia doesn't just come from conservatives, there are plenty of Atheists and nonbelievers that see a woman wear a niqab and think that they're somehow holding a grenade in their teeth.

[Vilkona]

> it comes from a culture of oppressing women
> but if they freely to choose to wear it

Pick one.

[Eglaecia]

From the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/31/denmark-passes-law-banning-burqa-and-niqab

Denmark has joined several other European countries in banning garments that cover the face, including Islamic veils such as the niqab and burqa, in a move condemned by human rights campaigners as “neither necessary nor proportionate”.

In a 75-30 vote with 74 absentees on Thursday, Danish lawmakers approved the law presented by the centre-right governing coalition. The government said it is not aimed at any religions and does not ban headscarves, turbans or the traditional Jewish skull cap.

But the law is popularly known as the “burqa ban” and is mostly seen as being directed at the dress worn by some Muslim women. Few Muslim women in Denmark wear full-face veils.

The justice minister, Søren Pape Poulsen, said it would be up to police officers to use their common sense when they see people violating the law, which comes into force on 1 August.

The legislation allows people to cover their face when there is a “recognisable purpose” such as cold weather or complying with other legal requirements, for example using motorcycle helmets under Danish traffic rules.

Those violating the law risk a fine of 1,000 kroner (£118). Repeat offenders could be fined up to 10,000 kroner or jailed for up to six months.

Austria, France and Belgium have similar laws.

Gauri van Gulik, Amnesty International’s Europe director, said of the Danish decision: “All women should be free to dress as they please and to wear clothing that expresses their identity or beliefs. This ban will have a particularly negative impact on Muslim women who choose to wear the niqab or burqa.

“While some specific restrictions on the wearing of full-face veils for the purposes of public safety may be legitimate, this blanket ban is neither necessary nor proportionate and violates the rights to freedom of expression and religion.

“If the intention of this law was to protect women’s rights, it fails abjectly. Instead, the law criminalises women for their choice of clothing and in so doing flies in the face of those freedoms Denmark purports to uphold.”

Associated Press contributed to this report

*sigh*

Well, Denmark's Folketing voted to ban the burqa and the niqab with over 40% of the chamber absent. I understand that it upsets a few people, but there's no need to resort to banning these things and meddling with other people.

What say you, NSG? And bear in mind that there will be no religious flamewars on my watch.

Good. This doesn't physically harm anyone. Let Denmark do what they want to do :^)

[Martian Alliance]

> it comes from a culture of oppressing women
> but if they freely to choose to wear it

Pick one.

The history of it comes from fundamentalist Islam forcing women to wear the burqas and treating them as second class citizens. But if they wear it by their choice there's no problem with that.

[Shrillland]

From the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/31/denmark-passes-law-banning-burqa-and-niqab

Denmark has joined several other European countries in banning garments that cover the face, including Islamic veils such as the niqab and burqa, in a move condemned by human rights campaigners as “neither necessary nor proportionate”.

In a 75-30 vote with 74 absentees on Thursday, Danish lawmakers approved the law presented by the centre-right governing coalition. The government said it is not aimed at any religions and does not ban headscarves, turbans or the traditional Jewish skull cap.

But the law is popularly known as the “burqa ban” and is mostly seen as being directed at the dress worn by some Muslim women. Few Muslim women in Denmark wear full-face veils.

The justice minister, Søren Pape Poulsen, said it would be up to police officers to use their common sense when they see people violating the law, which comes into force on 1 August.

The legislation allows people to cover their face when there is a “recognisable purpose” such as cold weather or complying with other legal requirements, for example using motorcycle helmets under Danish traffic rules.

Those violating the law risk a fine of 1,000 kroner (£118). Repeat offenders could be fined up to 10,000 kroner or jailed for up to six months.

Austria, France and Belgium have similar laws.

Gauri van Gulik, Amnesty International’s Europe director, said of the Danish decision: “All women should be free to dress as they please and to wear clothing that expresses their identity or beliefs. This ban will have a particularly negative impact on Muslim women who choose to wear the niqab or burqa.

“While some specific restrictions on the wearing of full-face veils for the purposes of public safety may be legitimate, this blanket ban is neither necessary nor proportionate and violates the rights to freedom of expression and religion.

“If the intention of this law was to protect women’s rights, it fails abjectly. Instead, the law criminalises women for their choice of clothing and in so doing flies in the face of those freedoms Denmark purports to uphold.”

Associated Press contributed to this report

*sigh*

Well, Denmark's Folketing voted to ban the burqa and the niqab with over 40% of the chamber absent. I understand that it upsets a few people, but there's no need to resort to banning these things and meddling with other people.

What say you, NSG? And bear in mind that there will be no religious flamewars on my watch.

Good. This doesn't physically harm anyone. Let Denmark do what they want to do :^)

Throwing someone in jail because they refuse to give up wearing what they believe they should wear doesn't physically harm anyone? I realise this is Denmark we're talking about, but jail is still jail, and repeat offenders can get six months for it.

[Angreia]

Good

[Xadufell]

I find it funny that a nation many would consider "Progressive" decided to do this. I'm all for it, you should be able to conceal your identity / face in public, no matter your religion.

[Thermodolia]

Good. And while there at it they should ban other religious garments from the public sphere

[The Lone Alliance]

From the Guardian: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/may/31/denmark-passes-law-banning-burqa-and-niqab

Denmark has joined several other European countries in banning garments that cover the face, including Islamic veils such as the niqab and burqa, in a move condemned by human rights campaigners as “neither necessary nor proportionate”.

In a 75-30 vote with 74 absentees on Thursday, Danish lawmakers approved the law presented by the centre-right governing coalition. The government said it is not aimed at any religions and does not ban headscarves, turbans or the traditional Jewish skull cap.

But the law is popularly known as the “burqa ban” and is mostly seen as being directed at the dress worn by some Muslim women. Few Muslim women in Denmark wear full-face veils.

The justice minister, Søren Pape Poulsen, said it would be up to police officers to use their common sense when they see people violating the law, which comes into force on 1 August.

The legislation allows people to cover their face when there is a “recognisable purpose” such as cold weather or complying with other legal requirements, for example using motorcycle helmets under Danish traffic rules.

Those violating the law risk a fine of 1,000 kroner (£118). Repeat offenders could be fined up to 10,000 kroner or jailed for up to six months.

Austria, France and Belgium have similar laws.

Gauri van Gulik, Amnesty International’s Europe director, said of the Danish decision: “All women should be free to dress as they please and to wear clothing that expresses their identity or beliefs. This ban will have a particularly negative impact on Muslim women who choose to wear the niqab or burqa.

“While some specific restrictions on the wearing of full-face veils for the purposes of public safety may be legitimate, this blanket ban is neither necessary nor proportionate and violates the rights to freedom of expression and religion.

“If the intention of this law was to protect women’s rights, it fails abjectly. Instead, the law criminalises women for their choice of clothing and in so doing flies in the face of those freedoms Denmark purports to uphold.”

Associated Press contributed to this report

*sigh*

Well, Denmark's Folketing voted to ban the burqa and the niqab with over 40% of the chamber absent. I understand that it upsets a few people, but there's no need to resort to banning these things and meddling with other people.

What say you, NSG? And bear in mind that there will be no religious flamewars on my watch.

It's not like Denmark needs Islam.

Throwing someone in jail because they refuse to give up wearing what they believe they should wear doesn't physically harm anyone? I realise this is Denmark we're talking about, but jail is still jail, and repeat offenders can get six months for it.

Yeah that's the wrong punishment, they should be deported to Saudi Arabia.

[Kyneland]

Meh, I don’t care much but I do approve of it. Hopefully the rest of Europe that hasn’t banned it follows suit.

[Ethel mermania]

I support, folks shouldn't be able to hide their faces in public. Other folks have the right to know who they are on the street with.

[Martian Alliance]

Good. And while there at it they should ban other religious garments from the public sphere

Should you be banned from wearing a colander on your head if you claim to be "Pastafarian"? If you just wear any weird costume would that qualify as religious? It's just clothing and you're the one giving it special significance if you were to ban it.

[The Great-German Empire]

To be fair, being able to facially ID more people would be helpful to the police... It's also an invasion of privacy. The only thing that should be dome to combat religious extremism is to constantly search for their cells, and dish out the harshest of punishments to such terrorists wherever they are found. Hell, you could bring back the death penalty, that doesn't violate anyone innocent's rights. That being said, such garments should not be allowed for public servants, who should instead have some kind of moderate dress-code or even uniform.

I also object to Thermodolia's Laicism.

[Thermodolia]

Good. And while there at it they should ban other religious garments from the public sphere

Should you be banned from wearing a colander on your head if you claim to be "Pastafarian"? If you just wear any weird costume would that qualify as religious? It's just clothing and you're the one giving it special significance if you were to ban it.

Yes to the above. Religion should only be in private not public. It only divides the nation.

And it’s not just religious garments but religious symbols and the like.

[Shrillland]

I support, folks shouldn't be able to hide their faces in public. Other folks have the right to know who they are on the street with.

It's not really anyone else's business who they're on the street with though. I can understand uncovering for IDs and licences and the like, but it's not anyone's business what a person wears. As for who they're on the street with, does "a person" count?

[Pope Joan]

There are Anabaptists in Denmark; will they now be compelled to remove their head coverings too?

[The Lone Alliance]

As much as I hate Islam isn’t this a violation of Freedom of Religion which is considered a human right by the UN?

Under that definition if someone made a religion with mandatory nudity it would be seen against their religion to make them wear clothes.

There are Anabaptists in Denmark; will they now be compelled to remove their head coverings too?

By the ruling it would if their head coverings cover their face.

[The Great-German Empire]

Yes to the above. Religion should only be in private not public. It only divides the nation.

And it’s not just religious garments but religious symbols and the like.

Once again I must say I object to your Laicism. As long as it is within decency, one should be able to wear whatever. And will a supposed ban on religious symbolism include, let's say, a t-shirt with a religious cross on it? No, this is a blatant breach of personal and religious freedom you are supporting here. By wearing religious symbols in public, a person is violating nobody's rights or freedoms - therefore there should be no problem.

[Proctopeo]

While suboptimal, at least people won't be forced to wear burqas in Denmark any more.

[Shrillland]

There are Anabaptists in Denmark; will they now be compelled to remove their head coverings too?

Not likely, this is is primarily for veils as the article states and won't affect scarves and the like.

[Costa Fierro]

I don't have a problem with this. When in Rome...

[Martian Alliance]

Should you be banned from wearing a colander on your head if you claim to be "Pastafarian"? If you just wear any weird costume would that qualify as religious? It's just clothing and you're the one giving it special significance if you were to ban it.

Yes to the above. Religion should only be in private not public. It only divides the nation.

And it’s not just religious garments but religious symbols and the like.

And what if someone wears a witch costume on Halloween? Couldn't that be interpreted as a religious garment? Any clothing item related to mystical or fantastical things at all is a religious garment. Sure LARPers don't necessarily believe their fantasy is real, but neither do many so-called religious people.

Pastafarianism is a joke religion and you've said you'd ban their religious headgear. What about costumes for fantasy movies, Halloween costumes, etc? These people also don't really believe in the fantasy just like Pastafarians and they still wear the clothing just like Pastafarians.