Ayn Rand

[The Parkus Empire]

Individualism is the moral stance, political philosophy, ideology, or social outlook that emphasizes the moral worth of the individual.[1][2] Individualists promote the exercise of one's goals and desires and so value independence and self-reliance[3] and advocate that interests of the individual should achieve precedence over the state or a social group,[3] while opposing external interference upon one's own interests by society or institutions such as the government.[3]

Ayn Rand is the non plus ultra of this peculiar philosophy. I do not like her philosophy one bit, yet that is because I reject individualism. It is inconsistent for self-proclaimed individualists to condemn the natural conclusion of their philosophy. I deny that individualism is consistent with hostility to Objectivism, though I solit any contrary opinion.

*edit for Mod

"What do YOU think? Is it consistent to embrace individualism while opposing Randianism?

[Arlenton]

Not too big of a fan of Ayn Rand. I prefer Dick Cheney.

[Methodological Individualism]

Dunno what you really mean by that last sentence there, but I've already thought that her individualism is flawed in that...

Now, I don’t care to discuss the alleged complaints American Indians have against this country. I believe, with good reason, the most unsympathetic Hollywood portrayal of Indians and what they did to the white man. They had no right to a country merely because they were born here and then acted like savages. The white man did not conquer this country...

(https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand; citation included in this article, with an extended discussion on the Talk page)

...she was a racist. Some individuals are more individual than others, etc.

[NERVUN]

What the heck are we supposed to be discussing here?

[Petrasylvania]

What the heck are we supposed to be discussing here?

Why are you a slave to the need for a discussion?

[NERVUN]

What the heck are we supposed to be discussing here?

Why are you a slave to the need for a discussion?

Because this is General, and I am a Mod who is tasked with keeping said discussion forum actually discussing things and I find this OP lacking.

[Petrasylvania]

Why are you a slave to the need for a discussion?

Because this is General, and I am a Mod who is tasked with keeping said discussion forum actually discussing things and I find this OP lacking.

Missed the joke.

[NERVUN]

Because this is General, and I am a Mod who is tasked with keeping said discussion forum actually discussing things and I find this OP lacking.

Missed the joke.

Sorry, it's 8:30 am, I'm mid-coffee, and had to get up to shovel &#'#'%'%#!! snow at 4:30.

[Northern Davincia]

This would probably fit better in the Libertarian Discussion Thread, but while I'm here, I may as well state that all of Rand's criticisms of collectivism are true.

[Blakk Metal]

This would probably fit better in the Libertarian Discussion Thread, but while I'm here, I may as well state that all of Rand's criticisms of collectivism are true.

Which ones and how?

[The Black Forrest]

This would probably fit better in the Libertarian Discussion Thread, but while I'm here, I may as well state that all of Rand's criticisms of collectivism are true.

And yet she used social assistance.

[Petrasylvania]

This would probably fit better in the Libertarian Discussion Thread, but while I'm here, I may as well state that all of Rand's criticisms of collectivism are true.

And yet she used social assistance.

Something something reclaiming stolen property something something.

[The Parkus Empire]

What the heck are we supposed to be discussing here?

Whether or not subscribing to individualism is compatible with rejecting Rand

[Uiiop]

This would probably fit better in the Libertarian Discussion Thread, but while I'm here, I may as well state that all of Rand's criticisms of collectivism are true.

And yet she used social assistance.

Can't be a leech if you admit you are.

[Petrasylvania]

What the heck are we supposed to be discussing here?

Whether or not subscribing to individualism is compatible with rejecting Rand

Not if you think individualism mandates sociopathic dickery and douchebaggery.

[Socialist Union Of Deutschland]

The Objectivist philosophy established by Ayn Rand is so evil. I deeply hate objectivism, and Ayn Rand.

It promotes the worst of the worst:

- Greed
- Narcissism
- Egoism
- Love of Money
- Zionism
- Selfishness

Objectivism is very strange in terms of time. It is not reactionary. It is not romantic. It is not conservative. It is not liberal. It is not progressive. It is not revolutionary.

It is not reactionary because Ayn Rand and her objectivist philosophy never wanted to go back in time. It is not romantic because it promotes egoism, rationalism, reason, and individualism. It is not conservative because it is atheistic, anti-family, and promotes radical feminism. It is not liberal because liberals promote sympathy, and the objectivist philosophy is not sympathetic, promoting selfishness, and the "Law of the Jungle." It is not progressive because objectivism does not aim for anything. It is not revolutionary because objectivism does not rebel against anything, and wants to conserve the capitalist mode of production. Objectivism is useless in almost all political fields.

[Northern Davincia]

This would probably fit better in the Libertarian Discussion Thread, but while I'm here, I may as well state that all of Rand's criticisms of collectivism are true.

And yet she used social assistance.

After paying into the system for her entire life, it is only fair to reclaim it.

[Petrasylvania]

And yet she used social assistance.

After paying into the system for her entire life, it is only fair to reclaim it.

And the benefits she received outcosted the amount she put in. Or as she liked to call it, leeching.

[The Black Forrest]

And yet she used social assistance.

After paying into the system for her entire life, it is only fair to reclaim it.

Split those hairs!

[Major-Tom]

Not too big of a fan of Ayn Rand. I prefer Dick Cheney.

One is a self absorbed narcissist, the other a self absorbed narcissist. Can you guess which one is which?

[The Parkus Empire]

The Objectivist philosophy established by Ayn Rand is so evil. I deeply hate objectivism, and Ayn Rand.

It promotes the worst of the worst:

- Greed
- Narcissism
- Egoism
- Love of Money
- Zionism
- Selfishness

Objectivism is very strange in terms of time. It is not reactionary. It is not romantic. It is not conservative. It is not liberal. It is not progressive. It is not revolutionary.

It is not reactionary because Ayn Rand and her objectivist philosophy never wanted to go back in time. It is not romantic because it promotes egoism, rationalism, reason, and individualism. It is not conservative because it is atheistic, anti-family, and promotes radical feminism. It is not liberal because liberals promote sympathy, and the objectivist philosophy is not sympathetic, promoting selfishness, and the "Law of the Jungle." It is not progressive because objectivism does not aim for anything. It is not revolutionary because objectivism does not rebel against anything, and wants to conserve the capitalist mode of production. Objectivism is useless in almost all political fields.

It is individualist.

[Northern Davincia]

After paying into the system for her entire life, it is only fair to reclaim it.

And the benefits she received outcosted the amount she put in. Or as she liked to call it, leeching.

Proof?

After paying into the system for her entire life, it is only fair to reclaim it.

Split those hairs!

Clarification takes precision these days.

[Petrasylvania]

Not too big of a fan of Ayn Rand. I prefer Dick Cheney.

One is a self absorbed narcissist, the other a self absorbed narcissist. Can you guess which one is which?

Which one got to actually fuck over a country with the self-absorbed narcissism? And Ayn Rand never made anyone apologize for getting shot by her.

[Major-Tom]

Also, in response to the OP, Ayn Rand's aggressive narcissism and admittedly terrible stories are not reflective of individualism. Individualism, as a whole, does not reject the concept of a community, or government, or social aid, etc etc. It just professes support for the moral and self worth of each individual, and how we should strive to better ourselves, rely on ourselves, etc.

Nothing is inherently wrong with individualism. Using individualism to promote ideas that divide is wrong.

[East Angria]

What the heck are we supposed to be discussing here?

Whether or not subscribing to individualism is compatible with rejecting Rand

It is. I would consider myself individualist, at least in a sense, yet I think Rand's works were some of the most worthless pieces of literature and philosophy (and that's stretching those terms) that ever saw the light of day.

She had an awful experience during her adolescence. Her wealthy family was expropriated by the Stalinist regime and had to flee to the US. She never got over this and never once in her lifetime did she manage to expand her horizon beyond just the realization that this one event during her lifetime was bad for her personally. She even had the cheek to call this extremely narrow and backwards worldview "objectivism".

She accomplished absolutely nothing in advancing philosophy or political theory, wasting her time arguing against a spectre she called "collectivism", under which she filed almost everything outside her radical capitalist dogma. You can basically sum up all of her work in five words: "I've got mine, f**k you!"