The Existence of God

[The Rich Port]

... That's because string theory is a mathematical theory and... God isn't.

Kinda hard to be a theory within something you created, but perhaps not
impossible, but maybe unnecessary. I dunno.

Indeed, God is quite silly in the viewpoint of logic and science.

[Quokkastan]

It matters because it can have an impact on this (possibly the only) life.

It matters because you make decisions based on it that affect others: if you're able to simply switch off your reason I dont think you're qualified to do that.

I do use my reasoning. I don't just look at the Church and say "I'll take everything that they say at face value." I wouldn't be a leftist if I went by pure Church Dogma. I don't discriminate against Muslims, Jews, Gays, Lesbians, Transgendered people, nor do I use it as an excuse for whatever behavior I may exhibit. Faith is philosophy (at least that's what I think) and philosophy is pure thought (at least that's the impression I get for String Theory being thought by some as just philosophy). Faith is, therefore, pure thought.

Faith is the belief in a proposition irrespective of evidence. It is not philosophy. It is not "pure thought."

Maybe I'm wrong here, and I'll readily admit to any falsehood here, but my faith isn't my sole authority. It simply is another part of my identity as is my race/ethnicity, nationality, and sexuality.

This is one of the things I find irritating about lefty-feel-good-spirituality. Your position on the answers to some of the most important questions in the universe is trivialized to the level of "where I happen to have been born" and "how I like to mash my genitals together."

[The Rich Port]

I do use my reasoning. I don't just look at the Church and say "I'll take everything that they say at face value." I wouldn't be a leftist if I went by pure Church Dogma. I don't discriminate against Muslims, Jews, Gays, Lesbians, Transgendered people, nor do I use it as an excuse for whatever behavior I may exhibit. Faith is philosophy (at least that's what I think) and philosophy is pure thought (at least that's the impression I get for String Theory being thought by some as just philosophy). Faith is, therefore, pure thought.

Faith is the belief in a proposition irrespective of evidence. It is not philosophy. It is not "pure thought."

Maybe I'm wrong here, and I'll readily admit to any falsehood here, but my faith isn't my sole authority. It simply is another part of my identity as is my race/ethnicity, nationality, and sexuality.

This is one of the things I find irritating about lefty-feel-good-spirituality. Your position on the answers to some of the most important questions in the universe is trivialized to the level of "where I happen to have been born" and "how I like to mash my genitals together."

It's funny... And sad... how right-wing religious people have appropriated some leftist values in order to defend themselves against logic.

And it's funny how my right-wing intolerance informs me against those things.

[Roma Byzantina]

I do use my reasoning. I don't just look at the Church and say "I'll take everything that they say at face value." I wouldn't be a leftist if I went by pure Church Dogma. I don't discriminate against Muslims, Jews, Gays, Lesbians, Transgendered people, nor do I use it as an excuse for whatever behavior I may exhibit. Faith is philosophy (at least that's what I think) and philosophy is pure thought (at least that's the impression I get for String Theory being thought by some as just philosophy). Faith is, therefore, pure thought.

Faith is the belief in a proposition irrespective of evidence. It is not philosophy. It is not "pure thought."

Maybe I'm wrong here, and I'll readily admit to any falsehood here, but my faith isn't my sole authority. It simply is another part of my identity as is my race/ethnicity, nationality, and sexuality.

This is one of the things I find irritating about lefty-feel-good-spirituality. Your position on the answers to some of the most important questions in the universe is trivialized to the level of "where I happen to have been born" and "how I like to mash my genitals together."

I'll concede to that point.

I guess I have my priorities set wrong then. But I do find those all quite important. The identity of a person creates their values, and at times their enviroment. If I happened to have been born in South Carolina or God-forbid Saudi Arabia, then I'd be an entirely different person. Had I been born gay then I'd also be quite different. And if I was both gay and born in Saudi Arabia I probably wouldn't be here. Then again maybe I'm taking this whole thing wrong and just confirming your views.

Faith is the belief in a proposition irrespective of evidence. It is not philosophy. It is not "pure thought."


This is one of the things I find irritating about lefty-feel-good-spirituality. Your position on the answers to some of the most important questions in the universe is trivialized to the level of "where I happen to have been born" and "how I like to mash my genitals together."

It's funny... And sad... how right-wing religious people have appropriated some leftist values in order to defend themselves against logic.

And it's funny how my right-wing intolerance informs me against those things.

I don't consider myself Right-Wing and I don't see how believing in a higher power makes one right wing. I'd like to be enlightened in this.

Maybe I am a closet right-winger and I just simply haven't realized that I've been classifying myself wrong this entire time.

[Differing Opinions]

Kinda hard to be a theory within something you created, but perhaps not
impossible, but maybe unnecessary. I dunno.

Indeed, God is quite silly in the viewpoint of logic and science.

I suppose truth can be stranger than non-fiction too.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

Indeed, God is quite silly in the viewpoint of logic and science.

I suppose truth can be stranger than non-fiction too.

>implying

[Godular]

Indeed, God is quite silly in the viewpoint of logic and science.

I suppose truth can be stranger than non-fiction too.

Heh. Truth. Such certainty is unbecoming.

[Alvecia]

Raised Catholic and I've recently reaffirmed my faith (after a year or so of some doubt) for myself and I do believe in God. Of course I believe in a God that works with the universe via the laws of physics, quantum mechanics, and all that. For now, I feel that I don't confront Catholic theology all that much so I'm comfortable using the label. Anyways, my faith is strong in His existence and that is that. If I'm wrong (whether it be Buddha, C'thulu, or even the invisible, pink Unicorn who visits me) then I see no qualms. If there is nothing after life then what does it matter that I believed in God?

For the most part, its not the believing in God that's the problem, its what that entails within your particular religion.
Hoe it wants you to act, how it wants you to think, and how open it makes you to manipulation.

[The Rich Port]

Raised Catholic and I've recently reaffirmed my faith (after a year or so of some doubt) for myself and I do believe in God. Of course I believe in a God that works with the universe via the laws of physics, quantum mechanics, and all that. For now, I feel that I don't confront Catholic theology all that much so I'm comfortable using the label. Anyways, my faith is strong in His existence and that is that. If I'm wrong (whether it be Buddha, C'thulu, or even the invisible, pink Unicorn who visits me) then I see no qualms. If there is nothing after life then what does it matter that I believed in God?

For the most part, its not the believing in God that's the problem, its what that entails within your particular religion.
Hoe it wants you to act, how it wants you to think, and how open it makes you to manipulation.

Also, a common mandate and principle of many religious movements is conversion, because anybody who isn't part of the religion is not just wrong, they're the worst kind of sinners: those who knowingly disavow your God, as opposed to simply having apathy or a lack of knowledge.

"Infidels", they call them.

[Differing Opinions]

Also, a common mandate and principle of many religious movements is conversion, because anybody who isn't part of the religion is not just wrong, they're the worst kind of sinners: those who knowingly disavow your God, as opposed to simply having apathy or a lack of knowledge.

"Infidels", they call them.

Indeed, and for malignant philosophy, there is conversion by the sword to fear. Whereas the benign schools of thought, while perhaps annoyingly evangelical, are at least voluntary. The paradigm isnt limited to religion.

[Real Sperland]

Raised Catholic and I've recently reaffirmed my faith (after a year or so of some doubt) for myself and I do believe in God. Of course I believe in a God that works with the universe via the laws of physics, quantum mechanics, and all that. For now, I feel that I don't confront Catholic theology all that much so I'm comfortable using the label. Anyways, my faith is strong in His existence and that is that. If I'm wrong (whether it be Buddha, C'thulu, or even the invisible, pink Unicorn who visits me) then I see no qualms. If there is nothing after life then what does it matter that I believed in God?

For the most part, its not the believing in God that's the problem, its what that entails within your particular religion.
Hoe it wants you to act, how it wants you to think, and how open it makes you to manipulation.

The Catholic Church is corrupt. We are better off with a church that doesn't have any power over the population. As I see it, Jesus was against rich people because they exploited people. Jesus said that it is easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle then for a rich man to get into heaven. Doesn't he remind you of Socialism a little bit? The church is corrupt. Power got to there heads. I personally think that god seems to be against authority honestly. Anyway, Jesus said that if you believe in god you will not be judged. If you don't then you will be. By judge he means go to heaven or hell. He never said that those who don't believe in god will go to hell just because they don't believe. If you truly don't mean to harm someone and don't hate people you will go too heaven. If you mean to hurt someone on purpose then have a nice time in hell. As long as you don't steal or murder someone on purpose, well, you know. That's all there is too it. Just don't harm someone on purpose and NOT regret it.

[Otrua]

The Church of the FSM is a parody religion... Believing it actually exists goes against the whole reason it was created.

The Church of FSM may be a parody. Why is that a big deal? Mormonism is a parody of Methodism, and nobody uses that against them.

[The Rich Port]

The Church of the FSM is a parody religion... Believing it actually exists goes against the whole reason it was created.

The Church of FSM may be a parody. Why is that a big deal? Mormonism is a parody of Methodism, and nobody uses that against them.

Yeah they do...

[The Alma Mater]

I mean, I try not to go around dissing on anyone. But I don't think anyone actually believes that the Flying Spaghetti Monster actually exists.

The Church of the FSM is a parody religion... Believing it actually exists goes against the whole reason it was created.

Frankly, though, not something I'd put past religious people.

The FSM works in mysterious ways. That he choose to reveal the truth as if it were a joke just shows his great sense of humour

[Alicutia]

I think a lot of what most people's view on what God would be is to influenced by the view of the Hellenistic Gods as a literal human like being in the sky. I believe a more wise interpretation would be the recognition that everything we've observed so far in the universe is connected to every other part of the universe even if in a seemingly small way. The acceptance that we are inconceivably small in a gargantuan universe meaning most things are out of our control and already set by pre-existing physical laws. That is what I believe to be the God of Abraham.

you think that the interconnection of all things spoke to a man thousands of years ago and convinced him to try to kill his son?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OTPEyj5l3c
But seriously I never said that.

[The Imperium Empires]

I don't believe in God for a few reasons-

1- where's the proof ' if there's a god why hasn't he shown his face in the last 1000 years so where the heck is he

2- the bible says he did a lot of pretty horrible things , if there is a god he wouldn't do these things

3- there so many religons, there are so many religons with so many gods who's to say GOD is even real if there is even a god

[Ashmoria]

you think that the interconnection of all things spoke to a man thousands of years ago and convinced him to try to kill his son?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OTPEyj5l3c
But seriously I never said that.

I'm not going to leave the site to watch a youtube. if you cant make your point HERE, don't bother

I know you didn't SAY it but when you say you believe in the god of Abraham I wonder what is Abrahamic about it. the interconnectedness of all things is in no way the god of Abraham.

[San Marlindo]

I cannot perceive God with any of my natural senses.

Of course, that doesn't mean jack. Radio waves pass around me all the time in the atmosphere, and I can't detect them. I am incapable of detecting infrasound or ultrasound on the EMF spectrum without the use of sophisticated machines for instance.

It all comes down to a question of faith. The faithful say, "I want to believe."

The atheist says, "I want to know."

It is the latter viewpoint that becomes more popular the more skeptical and down to earth our society gets. While I think this will be a negative trend in the long run due to the tendency to think inside a box - without acknowledging the impossible many one day become an extreme possibility - and indeed, result in the mistaken and frankly, arrogant belief that we already have most of the answers.

But I digress. Unless you have a "Road to Damascus" moment where God becomes real to you in a way you can understand, you have to make a leap of faith.

And if you're really that skeptical, who's to say God appearing in front of you - or for that matter, touching you is going to do any good? When your senses return you'll dismiss it as a dream, a hallucination, a schizophrenic episode, a bad trip, a mirage, or an elaborate prank. If you were to witness the impossible - the defiance of natural law - you would be far likelier to check yourself into detox or the funny farm than concede that the "impossible" just happened.

[Alvecia]

I cannot perceive God with any of my natural senses.

Of course, that doesn't mean jack. Radio waves pass around me all the time in the atmosphere, and I can't detect them. I am incapable of detecting infrasound or ultrasound on the EMF spectrum without the use of sophisticated machines for instance.

It all comes down to a question of faith. The faithful say, "I want to believe."

The atheist says, "I want to know."

It is the latter viewpoint that becomes more popular the more skeptical and down to earth our society gets. While I think this will be a negative trend in the long run due to the tendency to think inside a box - without acknowledging the impossible many one day become an extreme possibility - and indeed, result in the mistaken and frankly, arrogant belief that we already have most of the answers.

But I digress. Unless you have a "Road to Damascus" moment where God becomes real to you in a way you can understand, you have to make a leap of faith.

And if you're really that skeptical, who's to say God appearing in front of you - or for that matter, touching you is going to do any good? When your senses return you'll dismiss it as a dream, a hallucination, a schizophrenic episode, a bad trip, a mirage, or an elaborate prank. If you were to witness the impossible - the defiance of natural law - you would be far likelier to check yourself into detox or the funny farm than concede that the "impossible" just happened.

That actually reminds me of an interesting argument I heard concerning "personal experiences" as a form of conversion/belief.
Typically the stories fall into two categories, either the experience was mundane, or it was extraordinary.
If the former, then why believe it is anything other than the natural goings on in the world.
If the latter, then why would your first thought be God and not "holy shit I'm going crazy".
Doesn't exactly refute the "personal experience" belief, but it does go a way to explaining why they aren't at all convincing to the non-believers.

Also as to your point

It is the latter viewpoint that becomes more popular the more skeptical and down to earth our society gets. While I think this will be a negative trend in the long run due to the tendency to think inside a box - without acknowledging the impossible many one day become an extreme possibility - and indeed, result in the mistaken and frankly, arrogant belief that we already have most of the answers.

Part of the scientific and skeptical viewpoint is the knowledge and acceptance that
A) We do not have all the answers, and
B) There is nothing that is 100%

B) is a tricky one to word as most words I come up with, like absolute, certain, definite, are all things that such a mind set allows.

It is more that there is nothing that cannot be disproven by solid evidence. The likelihood of such evidence existing may be remote, but the possibility of it is always there.

[Differing Opinions]

I don't believe in God for a few reasons-
1- where's the proof ' if there's a god why hasn't he shown his face in the last 1000 years so where the heck is he
2- the bible says he did a lot of pretty horrible things , if there is a god he wouldn't do these things
3- there so many religons, there are so many religons with so many gods who's to say GOD is even real if there is even a god

1. According to some, He was here about 2000 years ago. Absolute certainty of His existence would sort of defeat the purpose, as any evolution in general requires shifting goalposts, which leads me to...
2. We are made in His image, so forward engineer that a bit, and imagine a static pointless existence, if you existed at all, if God were as one dimensional as people think He should be.
3. The human condition is a subjective experience.

[Alvecia]

I don't believe in God for a few reasons-
1- where's the proof ' if there's a god why hasn't he shown his face in the last 1000 years so where the heck is he
2- the bible says he did a lot of pretty horrible things , if there is a god he wouldn't do these things
3- there so many religons, there are so many religons with so many gods who's to say GOD is even real if there is even a god

1. According to some, He was here about 2000 years ago.

Annecdotal evidence, best evidence

Absolute certainty of His existence would sort of defeat the purpose, as any evolution in general requires shifting goalposts,

What purpose? What evolution? Which goalposts?

which leads me to...
2. We are made in His image(a), so forward engineer that a bit, and imagine a static pointless existence(b),

(b) does not follow from (a)

2. We are made in His image(a), so forward engineer that a bit, and imagine a static pointless existence(b), if you existed at all, if God were as one dimensional as people think He should be.

Put together this entire sentence does not make any sense It's like you forgot another two lines after the full stop.

3. The human condition is a subjective experience.

Which makes the "My God is the right God" argument kind of pointless.

[Zoice]

I don't believe in God for a few reasons-
1- where's the proof ' if there's a god why hasn't he shown his face in the last 1000 years so where the heck is he
2- the bible says he did a lot of pretty horrible things , if there is a god he wouldn't do these things
3- there so many religons, there are so many religons with so many gods who's to say GOD is even real if there is even a god

1. According to some, He was here about 2000 years ago. Absolute certainty of His existence would sort of defeat the purpose, as any evolution in general requires shifting goalposts, which leads me to...
2. We are made in His image, so forward engineer that a bit, and imagine a static pointless existence, if you existed at all, if God were as one dimensional as people think He should be.
3. The human condition is a subjective experience.

1. He was also here 1250 years ago to help Muhammed, and 200 years ago to guide Joseph Smith and the Mormons. Religious myths are not evidence, they have to be well documented and corroborated, and shown to be more than just imagination, a few untrustworthy witnesses etc. Interestingly, there's a trend of less God-witnessing as documentation and knowledge of the natural world increases... Wonder what that could mean.
2. That's assuming he exists etc.
3. So?

[Ecitela]

The Church of the FSM is a parody religion... Believing it actually exists goes against the whole reason it was created.

Frankly, though, not something I'd put past religious people.

The FSM works in mysterious ways. That he choose to reveal the truth as if it were a joke just shows his great sense of humour

There's actually a lot of things that show that FSM has a great sense of humour. Platypus, for example.

[Noraika]

Personally, I don't believe that the Abrahamic God exists, and to be honest, I don't necessarily understand the spiritual perspectives of the Abrahamic religions. I mean no offence, but I'll be open, the idea of a creator diety, let alone a deity which is all-powerful, all-knowing, and all-good, which dictates morality, does not make sense to me to begin with, and even less when placed within a monotheistic context. It makes even less sense to me this idea of 'sin' and 'salvation'. I don't believe humanity needs to be saved from anything, in the sense meant by Abrahamic religions, so you can probably guess that, to me, most of the other areas of Abrahamic thought don't make a lot of sense to me, since they approach the world and spirituality from an entirely different premise.

I've read the Bible, and am starting the Quran, but to be honest, there is nothing in there that assists in alleviating this rather noncommunicable nature of Abrahamic religion to me. I don't mean to offend anyone, but I'll still be frank in saying that I don't think that the Abrahamic God is some form of universal truth, and I found that the Bible has quite a lot of questionable things, contradictions, and morally objectional things in it. Like most formal religions, I think its mostly a case of being raised in a certain spiritual perspective rather than

[Zoice]

The Abrahamic God very probably doesn't exist. A pantheistic god of the gaps is less probably not, but still probably not.