[PASSED] Condemn DEN

[Isla bonitas]

isla bonitas formally condemns Den for their appalling actions. Whatever support we can offer is extended to those nations. freedom animus may be used as a safe haven for any people seeking shelter from the attacks.

[Isla bonitas]

isla bonitas formally condemns Den for their appalling actions. Whatever support we can offer is extended to those nations. freedom animus may be used as a safe haven for any people seeking shelter from the attacks.

in addition to condemning their actions our regionfreedom animus has engaged the WA delegate of Den in peaceful negotiations in hopes of helping the citizens of Den get the civil rights that all humans deserve!

[SpitfireYG]

Yep, and good thing too. Best recruitment tool there is: official recognition of how good a region is at what they do. It's better than a five-star rating .

[Dark Commander]

I understand, it was relatively well written when compared with many other commendations/condemnations. Notably, this actually included several specific examples.

It was well written compared to many proposals, but it is a joke compared to other passed resolution. As a draft it has potential, but not as a resolution. I only partially blame the author for that though, because they could have posted this version before submitting it, so at least the grammar could have been corrected, or have it removed after the errors were pointed out here. I'm more pissed off at the number of people who voted for it, because I doubt half of the game even read it. I've seen a guy campaigning on some rmbs that it makes us give up our refounds, which is an outright lie.

Agreed. Part of my wariness towards this resolutions comes from the lies some people have said as a result of this proposal. Although, I am impressed that Christmas obviously did his homework, which is a large part of why I support this proposal.

[The Silver Sentinel]

It was well written compared to many proposals, but it is a joke compared to other passed resolution. As a draft it has potential, but not as a resolution. I only partially blame the author for that though, because they could have posted this version before submitting it, so at least the grammar could have been corrected, or have it removed after the errors were pointed out here. I'm more pissed off at the number of people who voted for it, because I doubt half of the game even read it. I've seen a guy campaigning on some rmbs that it makes us give up our refounds, which is an outright lie.

Agreed. Part of my wariness towards this resolutions comes from the lies some people have said as a result of this proposal. Although, I am impressed that Christmas obviously did his homework, which is a large part of why I support this proposal.

Homework? Don't make me laugh. It was common knowledge.

[Dark Commander]

Agreed. Part of my wariness towards this resolutions comes from the lies some people have said as a result of this proposal. Although, I am impressed that Christmas obviously did his homework, which is a large part of why I support this proposal.

Homework? Don't make me laugh. It was common knowledge.

Go ahead Chester, laugh. He included Catholic in the examples, which requires at least some research.

[Wallenburg]

"While I recognize that the raiding organization DEN has committed many horrors that cannot be ignored, bellicose organizations such as DEN view World Assembly condemnations as badges of honor, rare medals to demonstrate their power and influence throughout the Multiverse. These condemnations may serve as a symbolic "punishment" for their actions, but they only instill greater pride in the members of raiding organizations. Worst among the effects of condemnation is the sudden facilitation of recruitment, with membership with these awful networks exploding as the World Assembly provides them with publicity and notoriety.

"Furthermore, this specific repeal argument makes little legal sense. It suffers from basic grammatical errors, such as sentence fragments and a lack of punctuation at the ends of clauses. It also refers repeatedly to a "Nationstates", something that I am totally unaware of and is not mentioned anywhere in the World Assembly law code. How a nation can be "on Nationstates" further baffles me. For instance, Wallenburg is on Earth, not Nationstates. I simply do not understand what this resolution attempts to argue.

"It is very easy to satisfy oneself with condemning the actions of DEN, and using such condemnation as an opportunity to ignore the realities of the Multiverse. It is far more difficult to accept the machines of this dreadful organization and pragmatically oppose this resolution. I vote against this repeal, in hope that we may avoid the calamity of a strengthened DEN."

[Maltropia]

The following tirade is in-character, presented by a junior member of the Maltropian delegation to the WA. It also completely reflects the author's qualms on the proposal.

---

"Esteemed delegates, and not-so-esteemed delegates; all of you people saying that this is a well-written proposal: it ain't. I may be picky, but the grammar's not brilliant ('the 2012'?), spelling takes two seconds to check ('appaled') and inconsistent punctuation (full stops in some lines, not in others) is the work of a moment to standardise. Actions don't deem, as they are incapable of thought, and you don't capitalise 'Noting' when it's not the first word in the clause. At least proofread before you submit your proposal.

"Typographical complaints aside, I wouldn't vote for this condemnation even if the writing is perfect. DEN is a very condemnable region, it's true, because what the SC deems condemnable is precisely that which is DEN's objective. A raiding region seeks to raid, and to achieve this it seeks to recruit. What has been said earlier, that a condemnation is a badge of pride that makes recruitment to a raiding cause so much easier. Paradoxia, our home region, was occupied by DEN and a consortium of other nefarious raiders for several days, and we would gladly see them destroyed forever. This is not the way to do that. If anything, it does the opposite. Thus, the Maltropian delegation feels compelled in the strongest possible way to vote against this condemnation, and we exhort other delegates to follow this, the only sane course of action."

[SpitfireYG]

We in the Den alliance would like to thank the author of this "condemnation" for advertising us.

Thanks

[Mayakava]

We in the Den alliance would like to thank the author of this "condemnation" for advertising us.

Thanks

agree with you

[Nordic Arbor]

Very interesting

[Consular]

Wow. Guess big vote delegates don't completely decide these things

[Cormac Stark]

Wow. Guess big vote delegates don't completely decide these things

Which is unfortunate, because when they don't we get inaccurate, incomplete proposals filled with spelling and grammatical errors passed by a horde of lemmings who don't care about quality and just hate DEN. Obviously we're better off when big vote Delegates chosen by elitist forum oligarchies are making the decisions, because the average on-site NationStates player isn't capable of discerning between a quality proposal and populist garbage.

[Consular]

Wow. Guess big vote delegates don't completely decide these things

Which is unfortunate, because when they don't we get inaccurate, incomplete proposals filled with spelling and grammatical errors passed by a horde of lemmings who don't care about quality and just hate DEN. Obviously we're better off when big vote Delegates chosen by elitist forum oligarchies are making the decisions, because the average on-site NationStates player isn't capable of discerning between a quality proposal and populist garbage.

Not sure if you're being genuine or sarcastic at this point

[The Silver Sentinel]

Which is unfortunate, because when they don't we get inaccurate, incomplete proposals filled with spelling and grammatical errors passed by a horde of lemmings who don't care about quality and just hate DEN. Obviously we're better off when big vote Delegates chosen by elitist forum oligarchies are making the decisions, because the average on-site NationStates player isn't capable of discerning between a quality proposal and populist garbage.

Not sure if you're being genuine or sarcastic at this point

Is there even a difference at this point?

[Wallenburg]

Wow. Guess big vote delegates don't completely decide these things

Which is unfortunate, because when they don't we get inaccurate, incomplete proposals filled with spelling and grammatical errors passed by a horde of lemmings who don't care about quality and just hate DEN. Obviously we're better off when big vote Delegates chosen by elitist forum oligarchies are making the decisions, because the average on-site NationStates player isn't capable of discerning between a quality proposal and populist garbage.

This article may interest you.

[Paffnia]

To explain another counterintuitive vote, the opinion of the 10000 Islands is that 1) this resolution conflates the new group called "DEN," a version of TBR, etc. made after they were punished for recruitment violations, with a completely different, past, defeated raider group and 2) this version of DEN is still pretty new, and giving them a condemn now seems more like a badge of honor. I have voted AGAINST accordingly.

[CookieCrew]

Im even part of DEN, But even I hate them.
Im voting yes!

[Kaboomlandia]

Im even part of DEN, But even I hate them.
Im voting yes!

OOC: Dude, stop the smiley spam.

#notamod

[Blood stream]

Im even part of DEN, But even I hate them.
Im voting yes!

TRAITOR

[Cormac Stark]

Which is unfortunate, because when they don't we get inaccurate, incomplete proposals filled with spelling and grammatical errors passed by a horde of lemmings who don't care about quality and just hate DEN. Obviously we're better off when big vote Delegates chosen by elitist forum oligarchies are making the decisions, because the average on-site NationStates player isn't capable of discerning between a quality proposal and populist garbage.

Not sure if you're being genuine or sarcastic at this point

I was being completely serious. This resolution is awful, I would say I can't believe it's passing but it isn't as bad as the version of Condemn The Black Riders that I managed to repeal after replacing, nor is it as bad as Condemn The Black Hawks, so I can believe the SC would pass something this terrible.

[Consular]

I guess your choice of language threw me a bit. I think you were one of the people arguing against the idea that all big delegates were chosen by oligarchic elites. Or maybe you were arguing that wasn't a bad thing nor undemocratic? Probably the latter, I don't remember, and this is irrelevant so eh.

[Cybershield]

*** > Communication by the Cybershield-human delegate liaison. > Communication authorized. ***

Cybershield will vote against this proposal. For the following reason:

+ Raiding is not illegal.

However, it is noted that:

'The strategy of raiding defaces a region and leaves a barren region that destroys unique cultures and communities...'

But it should also be noted that raiding and, by consequence, defending are valued mechanisms, and if somehow banning were ended, this would also be unfair/damaging. Additionally, on the point of unique cultures and communicates, this raises a question: isn't DEN and its actions a unique culture and community? Without raiding DEN would have no purpose and have a different character.

This is not a problem with DEN in the opinion of this nation but a problem with there being a lack of safeguard protocol. If regions could apply to be protected to an appointed body / moderator nation by submitting an application then that would solve this difficulty. The criteria for success would be uniqueness (e.g. 'Catholic' seems unique, as does 'Christmas', but not 'I'm bored'), number of members, history, etc. Success would be defined as nominating a chosen nation as having authority over the region, equal to the original founder, assuming the original founder had been lost, or such other means of safeguard. A list of notable regions not to be raided could also be made. This list would then show where raiding was now acceptable without banning/condemning raiding entirely. The amount of regions on this list could be limited by being a percentage of total regions that exist at any current time.

Alternatively, establishing an appointed body or moderator could be ignored if permanent executive authority could be granted, in a region, to a second-in-charge nation or a third-in-charge, etc., if the original founder nation ceases to exit.

One of the above suggestions if enacted would balance out the long-established tradition of raiding whilst addressing the consequences it can have.

However, since this proposal seems to be one against raiding as much as it is against DEN, and since raiding is not illegal, and since condemnation could be viewed as a desire for an excommunication or a banning of a nation or practice, then Cybershield will be voting against this proposal.

It is noted that DEN itself may prefer a condemnation. The nation of Cybershield is voting judged on the logic of the proposal, not on any judgement of DEN.

[Weaponized Confederation of States]

The Armed Republic of The Weaponized Confederation of States officially condemns DEN because: One of their members sent me a "Join Demand," demanding that I join or else they would destroy my current region. I don't think anyone will be able to easily overthrow my region, but who knows, and I don't want to find out.

[Saekostan]

Why y'all hatin', tho?

U mad?