[Discussion] Worldbuilding

[Alleniana]

RL? One-way express ticket to Nopeville, please.

That's a nice way to put it too. I guess what I like to convey with the wall analogy is the ability to have suspension of belief; yes, there's the sky, but you are always immersed, always surrounded by a world, but a world of walls that works and exists, not paintings for show or glass which only masks.

Anyway, I think perhaps worldbuilding should be a bit more defined in the OP here; if you are RPing as people on a cruise ship, well, you don't really need to build much of the world apart from the ship, a few details of the outside world, and the sea. Or, if you have people in a school, and it's magic/fantasy, you might only describe the school. Or, they might be part of a galactic empire, and you'd describe that, and its neighbours.

Eh, I don't think it needs to be better defined, really. I think it's good as is. All of this fits worldbuilding, after all.

It's a broad topic.

I mean, rather, when people talk about worldbuilding here, defining what kind. Talking about how best to design a religion becomes irrelevant if a person is trying to build a small scale survival island kind of thing. There's few tips and tricks that span the entire thing because it's so broad.

[Zarkenis Ultima]

Eh, I don't think it needs to be better defined, really. I think it's good as is. All of this fits worldbuilding, after all.

It's a broad topic.

I mean, rather, when people talk about worldbuilding here, defining what kind. Talking about how best to design a religion becomes irrelevant if a person is trying to build a small scale survival island kind of thing. There's few tips and tricks that span the entire thing because it's so broad.

Well, I understand, but I'm working under the assumption that this discussion was meant to address general worldbuilding here. I fully admit this might not be Swith's intent and I might be wrong in my assumption, but yeah.

I don't think it hurts, anyway. Whoever reads this can pick what they can use and leave the rest, the way I see it.

[Alleniana]

I mean, rather, when people talk about worldbuilding here, defining what kind. Talking about how best to design a religion becomes irrelevant if a person is trying to build a small scale survival island kind of thing. There's few tips and tricks that span the entire thing because it's so broad.

Well, I understand, but I'm working under the assumption that this discussion was meant to address general worldbuilding here. I fully admit this might not be Swith's intent and I might be wrong in my assumption, but yeah.

I don't think it hurts, anyway. Whoever reads this can pick what they can use and leave the rest, the way I see it.

Yes, that's what I meant too Far from it to be for me to tell people not to discuss such and such a kind of worldbuilding; I'm just saying people might want to specify what kind of world they're building when they discuss things to avoid confusion.

[Vancon]

RL? One-way express ticket to Nopeville, please.

That's a nice way to put it too. I guess what I like to convey with the wall analogy is the ability to have suspension of belief; yes, there's the sky, but you are always immersed, always surrounded by a world, but a world of walls that works and exists, not paintings for show or glass which only masks.

Anyway, I think perhaps worldbuilding should be a bit more defined in the OP here; if you are RPing as people on a cruise ship, well, you don't really need to build much of the world apart from the ship, a few details of the outside world, and the sea. Or, if you have people in a school, and it's magic/fantasy, you might only describe the school. Or, they might be part of a galactic empire, and you'd describe that, and its neighbours.

Eh, I don't think it needs to be better defined, really. I think it's good as is. All of this fits worldbuilding, after all.

It's a broad topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFHtr4IIpI8

Nuff' said

[Cerillium]

There might be two different approaches using the same word.

Worldbuilding for writing can be the actual crafting of an entire environment. Languages and writing, religion, social/political/business customs and practices, terrain, government and laws, evolution of a species (if not human), various native creatures, how magic works and what sort of magic, how tech works and the tech level, town/city/country/continent/solar system/galaxy maps, weather patterns, military assets (troops, vehicles, weapons etc).

This style also works wonderfully in the II forum or for nation-building. The downside is the sheer amount of information players must learn in order to be immersed in the world.

Worldbuilding for P2TM RP shouldn't be nearly that intensive unless you're planning to run a game for black diamond players. Green circles will either ignore descriptive paragraphs or, more commonly, apply their RL experiences to everything you attempt. Keeping it open and adaptable will allow players to participate in the worldbuilding effort as the game plays out.


Worldbuilding snobbery isn't really being a snob; it means that new players are given the cold shoulder and feel displaced because the world is too detailed and contains way too much canon. We see this in long-running games/megathreads. A player wants to put their mark on the game but commonly finds that "canon says no" or, due to their unfamiliarity with the setting, what they want to do is theoretically or physically impossible. This leads to OOC bickering.

"Well, in IC thread 5 and OOC thread 7, we established that black hole guns aren't allowed and don't work!" or "Ranger Rick CAN'T be killed that way."

These replies make new players feel stupid. They might question something and are told by older-running players, "it's in the thread/spoiler" but, because the new player is very unfamiliar with the overall thematic feel of that RP world, they aren't actually understanding why something is so.

In the case of a newly minted RP, the player wants to do something, is told "no" by the OP, but no further explanation is given because the OP hasn't really thought it out.

Just my two cents.

[Zarkenis Ultima]

Well, I understand, but I'm working under the assumption that this discussion was meant to address general worldbuilding here. I fully admit this might not be Swith's intent and I might be wrong in my assumption, but yeah.

I don't think it hurts, anyway. Whoever reads this can pick what they can use and leave the rest, the way I see it.

Yes, that's what I meant too Far from it to be for me to tell people not to discuss such and such a kind of worldbuilding; I'm just saying people might want to specify what kind of world they're building when they discuss things to avoid confusion.

Ah, I see. I don't think there are names established for things like that, though.

In any case, when I talk about worldbuilding I generally refer to more fantastical stuff, simply because I'm not one for realism. I don't care much for it, I prefer to just let my mind craft worlds without much concern for whether or not a volcanic environment would allow X society to sustain certain sociopolitical structures or not, or whatever. I guess I'm childish in that regard, but I don't really mind.

There might be two different approaches using the same word.

Worldbuilding for writing can be the actual crafting of an entire environment. Languages and writing, religion, social/political/business customs and practices, terrain, government and laws, evolution of a species (if not human), various native creatures, how magic works and what sort of magic, how tech works and the tech level, town/city/country/continent/solar system/galaxy maps, weather patterns, military assets (troops, vehicles, weapons etc).

This style also works wonderfully in the II forum or for nation-building. The downside is the sheer amount of information players must learn in order to be immersed in the world.

Worldbuilding for P2TM RP shouldn't be nearly that intensive unless you're planning to run a game for black diamond players. Green circles will either ignore descriptive paragraphs or, more commonly, apply their RL experiences to everything you attempt. Keeping it open and adaptable will allow players to participate in the worldbuilding effort as the game plays out.


Worldbuilding snobbery isn't really being a snob; it means that new players are given the cold shoulder and feel displaced because the world is too detailed and contains way too much canon. We see this in long-running games/megathreads. A player wants to put their mark on the game but commonly finds that "canon says no" or, due to their unfamiliarity with the setting, what they want to do is theoretically or physically impossible. This leads to OOC bickering.

"Well, in IC thread 5 and OOC thread 7, we established that black hole guns aren't allowed and don't work!" or "Ranger Rick CAN'T be killed that way."

These replies make new players feel stupid. They might question something and are told by older-running players, "it's in the thread/spoiler" but, because the new player is very unfamiliar with the overall thematic feel of that RP world, they aren't actually understanding why something is so.

In the case of a newly minted RP, the player wants to do something, is told "no" by the OP, but no further explanation is given because the OP hasn't really thought it out.

Just my two cents.

I agree with you for the most part, I really only have a couple things to add. First is that I think worldbuilding for RPs can also be an actual creation of a complete environment. Certainly, you don't have to boggle down others with details or any such thing, but it doesn't hurt to cover everything, even if only superficially. Those are my thoughts, anyway. Perhaps someone could find themselves unable to cover everything, and that's okay too.

I also don't think that in new RPs an OP never has justification for their veredicts. It may be rare but they might have it. .

[Agritum]

The best way to start wordbuilding a setting or an universe is, believe me or not, starting from a simple, short High Concept.

I'll explain: imagine that, one day, you get an idea. A really cool idea. Let's say, a Fantasy RP Set In The USA After A Cataclysm Made Magic Return To Our World And Threw The Country Back To The Middle Ages. If you had not already understood it, the excessively capitalized phrase up above is the High Concept I was speaking of.

It's all fine and dandy, but not really enough to start a RP yet: we must develope on it. So, what was this cataclysm all about? Was it a sudden magical shockwave that made elves pop up all over the place, castles sprout from the ground and transformed the President in some evil Sauron-like overlord? Or did it happen more gradually, with babies being born with pointed ears, technology starting to slowly fizzle out and a dark, almost invisible presence infiltrating the White House during the technological collapse? You choose. This part is quite important: you're starting to develop a backstory/background for your RP, using your High Concept as the basis. You're tailoring a whole world after this base concept, to maximize its potential.

Your backstory is important: it works as a canvas for you to paint on. But a canvas also needs some sturdy supports or some good nails to not fall down, doesn't it? These come in the form of the laws which define the less mundane and more particular aspects of your setting. Think of the titular Mass Effect, the Force in Star Wars, Magic in the Harry Potter novels: they're all governed by precise in-universe laws and rules, which warrantee their consistence in the setting, limit them from creating Deus Ex Machinae, and most importantly, permit to establish a Willing Suspension of Disbelief.

Let's say that I want to define magic in the setting I'm working on: I'll start by establishing that magic is a primordial, all-embracing force that has awakened again after thousands of years of slumber. Due to its omni-present nature, magic can be harvested everywhere by magicians, living beings born with the innate ability of processing raw magic into complex spells. However, let's also establish that magicians can process only a certain level of raw magic, which limits them to having only a limited quantity of usable magical energy, which bars them from manipulating time and the finer fabric of the universe.

As you can see, I've established crucial laws that determine how important parts of the setting work, which sets quite a good guideline to follow when building the setting.

And now, let's start observing the effects magic would have if it suddenly returned to the modern, mundane USA, coupled with a technology-destroying shockwave: deprived of its state-of-the art infrastructure, the federal government would collapse or be otherwise incredibly reduced in power. The return of magic would definitely change the face of society, even more so if coupled with the resurgence of mythical creatures and magical beings. A lot of people will find themselves in distress, deprived of their technological commodities and having to face a new, unknown force.

Eventually, the social nature of human beings will prevail. Out of the post-Cataclysm world, new states and nations would rise in the space of a few decades. Maybe in the form of confederations of farming towns, or trader republics, or great monarchies held by hereditary rulers. The possibilities are endless. Adventurers would prowl the lands in search of the treasures of the past, Knights would venture out to confront monsters and other fantastical beings, Magicians would study their newfound capabilities and the practical applications of magic.

As you can see, after establishing an high concept, a backstory and universal laws, I used them to further develop the setting and start giving it depth. Even then, you can see that the setting is what you would expect from the High Concept: remember to avoid losing focus of your original concept, when you wordbuild! It's quite easy to get caught in the fancier details and forget to fill in the big holes, or worse, swerve away from what you originally intended.

Now that we've filled out our backstory, universal laws and laid out a geopolitical and societal framework, it's time to fill it with vivid cultures and nations. This may seem hard, but trust me: you just need some practice, some creativity and some entrepreneuring spirit, and you'll be able to get awesome indeas and actually realize them in an impeccable way.

One of my favourite ways to forge a culture in a world-built setting is the technique I like to dub "Cultural Transposition". Basically, it revolves around taking an already existing culture, bringing it to a exotic/non-mundane setting, and think of how the characteristics of said setting would influence, shape and warp that culture. It can be a very fun process to go through, and your constructed cultures will be tailored to work perfectly in your setting.

Let's think of the culture of the Southern US. Regardless of what NSG may have told you, the South isn't all about the Bible Belt and red states. All over the region, values like hospitality, politeness, a certain quantity of spirituality and individualism are somewhat held dear or, at least, deeply imbued into the local mentality and way of thinking,

Now, imagine what would happen to these values, during and after the cataclysm. Hospitality, once just a lax social norm, would become much more revered than now, given the wild and unpredictable conditions of the outside world. A culture of honour, borne out the need of reciprocal trust and respect between fellow inhabitants of an harsh world would eventually surface, mirroring the conditions in the Colonial Era which led to the birth of the Southern mindset.

Meanwhile, religion would transform itself, or resist change, when facing the newly awakened forces of magic and the occult. What would the Baptists think of mages? And the Catholics? Would the latter elect a new pope after losing contact with the one in Rome? What about the other religions of the US? How would they react to the discovery of magic? Your choice. Just don't be too prejudiced when it comes to particularly conservative (or liberal, if you swing rightwards in politics) denominations: no one wants to see crude straw-men and other products of similar bigotry.

As you can see, Cultural Transposition can be good to observe how a culture would change after being put through a series of unusual events, or even to create a new, composite one. Just remember to avoid stereotypes: while a knight with an evident Southern drawl and a liking for hunting in the woods and going out in the countryside would be mostly harmless and even quite interesting, buck-toothed minstrels rocking out country music with their lutes or lowly serfs getting drunk on mead while enjoying an accident-full race between colourful horse-drawn carts
definitely stop being interesting, and pave the way for the even darker shores of cultural posturing and racism.

That said, feel free to ask me any questions, and pressure me to make revisions to this post, if you need more clearance.

[The SFSR]

I'll explain: imagine that, one day, you get an idea. A really cool idea. Let's say, a Fantasy RP Set In The USA After A Cataclysm Made Magic Return To Our World And Threw The Country Back To The Middle Ages.

ADVENTURE TIME.

[Constaniana]

I'll explain: imagine that, one day, you get an idea. A really cool idea. Let's say, a Fantasy RP Set In The USA After A Cataclysm Made Magic Return To Our World And Threw The Country Back To The Middle Ages.

ADVENTURE TIME.

Eh, not really, given how almost all remnants of pre-Mushroom War civilization have been erased. Even the continents aren't the same.

[Nude East Ireland]

The best way to worldbuild is with a good hammer and some good nails. I prefer oak wood myself, but any kind could be used I suppose.

[Zarkenis Ultima]

-snip-

That's a good set of guidelines.

That said, never be afraid to write on the seat of your pants. -Nods-

[Agritum]

-snip-

That's a good set of guidelines.

That said, never be afraid to write on the seat of your pants. -Nods-

....what?

[Constaniana]

That's a good set of guidelines.

That said, never be afraid to write on the seat of your pants. -Nods-

....what?

Trousers are remarkably useful for writing down ideas.

[Zarkenis Ultima]

That's a good set of guidelines.

That said, never be afraid to write on the seat of your pants. -Nods-

....what?

By the seat of your pants. My bad.

Here.

[Nude East Ireland]

I'd be happy to write on the seat of Agri's pants.

You know, if Con was away on a business trip or something.

[Zarkenis Ultima]

I'd be happy to write on the seat of Agri's pants.

You know, if Con was away on a business trip or something.

You're not adding much to the actual discussion.

[Constaniana]

I'd be happy to write on the seat of Agri's pants.

You know, if Con was away on a business trip or something.

Rup might be ahead of you in the queue for that.

[Nude East Ireland]

I'd be happy to write on the seat of Agri's pants.

You know, if Con was away on a business trip or something.

You're not adding much to the actual discussion.

Very well.

Worldbuilding can be difficult if you're actively looking to do it. The fact that you're thinking too much about making a setting means that you're not thinking about the setting itself. High concept is good. I find it best to focus on things you like; fantasy, history, whatever. To me, these things inspire worldbuilding ideas. It's best to take a break - watch Game of Thrones or read a history textbook. It comes naturally.

[Zarkenis Ultima]

You're not adding much to the actual discussion.

Very well.

Worldbuilding can be difficult if you're actively looking to do it. The fact that you're thinking too much about making a setting means that you're not thinking about the setting itself. High concept is good. I find it best to focus on things you like; fantasy, history, whatever. To me, these things inspire worldbuilding ideas. It's best to take a break - watch Game of Thrones or read a history textbook. It comes naturally.

Agreed.

I mean, except on the history textbook, though I'm sure there are lots of things to draw inspiration from in there as well. History's crazy.

But yes, distracting yourself from the task at hand often ends up giving you new ideas. It happens all the time.

Taking ideas from media you like is also a good idea, as long as you give them some sort of twist so that they both fit your setting and appear more original. Blending several ideas from different works can result in a surprisingly original setting or backstory or what have you.

[Alleniana]

Seat-of-pant/s writing/idea creation/worldbuilding, I must admit, is something I do a lot. Most of my RPs came from ideas that I had, ones that I really liked and could visualise, and most of them came from randomness. A lot of it is spur of the moment, an idea that has latched onto my thoughts and exploded, and that being put into text. That kind of stuff usually is good seed for worlds and RPs.

[Lavan Tiri]

So, I don't worldbuild for RP much at all, unless threatened, but when writing, I just draw a map and go from there, first races, then history, etc.

[Alleniana]

So, I don't worldbuild for RP much at all, unless threatened, but when writing, I just draw a map and go from there, first races, then history, etc.

Uh, is it just me, or is this a tad of a gravedig?

[Lavan Tiri]

So, I don't worldbuild for RP much at all, unless threatened, but when writing, I just draw a map and go from there, first races, then history, etc.

Uh, is it just me, or is this a tad of a gravedig?

Yes.

Yes it is.

[Alleniana]

Uh, is it just me, or is this a tad of a gravedig?

Yes.

Yes it is.

Perhaps TG Swith.

[Swith Witherward]

It's a discussion thread. I don't mind if it goes a long while without any posts. Inspiration can occur at any time. I ask that Mods keep it open for that reason (please and thank you, Mods).