Toward a new vanguard party

[Trotskylvania]

So, here's the deal

Basically, I can't trust to have a conversation like this on RevLeft, because that forum's full of tossers, so I'm left with going to the next highest concentration of commies and socialists that I know of, and that's NSG.

I think it's something that we on the left have been dismal about. We have no organization. Nearly all of the leftists that I've met are actually pretty politically unactive. We're not educating, agitating and organizing, and that's pretty shameful. So, the question has to be how are we going to rise above our own irrelevance and start making a difference. We shouldn't be content with educating ungrateful yuppie larva in social science classes. Like our red forefathers, we need to get down in the struggle, organizing actual workers to improve their lot, and if we're lucky take up the red flag with us.

Even in the United States, the CPUSA was instrumental in the last great union organization drives. Both Orthodox communists and Trotskyists were among the best organizers in the CIO, and certainly the most dedicated, and they were at the frontlines of many of the great organizational battles, like the Minneapolis Teamster's Strike in 34, or the UAW's sit down strikes.

At present, though, being on the far left is akin to joining some monastic cult. More effort is spent quoting from the master, and fighting old ideological wars than doing anything productive.

Yeah, we're not getting anywhere with this crap. We need organization. The broader the better. We don't need ideological cults, we need an actual workers' party, devoted to the interests of the modern working class, whether they're Silicon Valley code monkeys, retail workers, or migrant farm labor. We need to start thinking about how we're going to do this, which geographical areas we can organize in, facing the least resistance and getting the most gain. And like the Tea Party did, we need to start crashing the Democratic Party primaries until they start paying attention to what's going on. Bare minimum, until the Taft-Harley Act is repealed.

[Genivaria]

Last time leftists organized they ended up co-opted by the Democrats after the New Deal.

[Mike the Progressive]

Like OWS, hopefully this will go nowhere.

[Trotskylvania]

Last time leftists organized they ended up co-opted by the Democrats after the New Deal.

No one in the modern Democratic Party has the vision and transformative resolve that FDR had.

The stalwartly bourgeois liberal Democratic Party of today is a slave of PR and marketing, following whatever passes for public opinion rather than actively seeking to build support for a cohesive vision of society.

[The Serbian Empire]

I suspect that if the left were to organize the Democrats would just cow-tow towards them to prevent the GOP from winning leading to a slightly more left wing Democrat Party. No meaningful gains are made for the hard-left however as the Democrats get their election funds not from the Communists and Socialists, but bankers on Wall Street who are socially liberal, but economically right-wing.

[Libertarian California]

Stage a coup. It's fun and easy.

[Blakk Metal]

BUT TEH EBIL COMMIEZ

[The Serbian Empire]

Like OWS, hopefully this will go nowhere.

I already know it will not go anywhere knowing how much money is needed to win a national election. If it has enough legs to get 3 to 5% of the vote, the Democrats will attempt to reel them in to keep the GOP out of power.

Stage a coup. It's fun and easy.

It would be better to use the military to have a junta instead as a coup without the military is destined to fail in the US.

[Genivaria]

Stage a coup. It's fun and easy.

How bout no.

[Wind in the Willows]

Like OWS, hopefully this will go nowhere.

I already know it will not go anywhere knowing how much money is needed to win a national election. If it has enough legs to get 3 to 5% of the vote, the Democrats will attempt to reel them in to keep the GOP out of power.

Stage a coup. It's fun and easy.

It would be better to use the military to have a junta instead as a coup without the military is destined to fail in the US.

Now that you mentioned coup, you will probably be on an NSA watchlist.

[Libertarian California]

Stage a coup. It's fun and easy.

It would be better to use the military to have a junta instead as a coup without the military is destined to fail in the US.

It's easy.

Kidnap Obama and force him to sign the document that turns America red at gunpoint.

[Brewdomia]

I would go along with this, because with the emerging Democratic majority perfect chance for the dems to consolidate power. As long as the left can be controlled (unlike the tea party) it's a good progressive wing to the party.

And where to start? The North Carolina legislature for instance. Fuck them.

[Libertarian California]

I already know it will not go anywhere knowing how much money is needed to win a national election. If it has enough legs to get 3 to 5% of the vote, the Democrats will attempt to reel them in to keep the GOP out of power.


It would be better to use the military to have a junta instead as a coup without the military is destined to fail in the US.

Now that you mentioned coup, you will probably be on an NSA watchlist.

I'm probably already on that watchlist due to my recent Google searches.

[Genivaria]

I already know it will not go anywhere knowing how much money is needed to win a national election. If it has enough legs to get 3 to 5% of the vote, the Democrats will attempt to reel them in to keep the GOP out of power.


It would be better to use the military to have a junta instead as a coup without the military is destined to fail in the US.

Now that you mentioned coup, you will probably be on an NSA watchlist.

Oh if that's all it takes then I've been on that list since 2011.

[Mike the Progressive]

Like OWS, hopefully this will go nowhere.

I already know it will not go anywhere knowing how much money is needed to win a national election. If it has enough legs to get 3 to 5% of the vote, the Democrats will attempt to reel them in to keep the GOP out of power.

It's not only that, it's also revolutions like this, violent or otherwise, never happen unless a national crisis or emergency is taken advantage of. And that's what would be required here. Maybe if all the major US cities got nuked and we were in a Jericho like scenario. Or a massive plague killed off 80% of the population. But what Trot is talking about is reformatting the entire American political map. It's not going to happen unless people are inches from death and they feel they have no other choice.

[Mike the Progressive]

It would be better to use the military to have a junta instead as a coup without the military is destined to fail in the US.

It's easy.

Kidnap Obama and force him to sign the document that turns America red at gunpoint.

I doubt Brazilian fart porn would land you on the NSA watch list.

[The Serbian Empire]

Now that you mentioned coup, you will probably be on an NSA watchlist.

You have to use the word often to make the PRISM watchlist.

[Trotskylvania]

Like OWS, hopefully this will go nowhere.

I already know it will not go anywhere knowing how much money is needed to win a national election. If it has enough legs to get 3 to 5% of the vote, the Democrats will attempt to reel them in to keep the GOP out of power.

Stage a coup. It's fun and easy.

It would be better to use the military to have a junta instead as a coup without the military is destined to fail in the US.

Whoever said anything about election campaigns?

They are a ridiculous waste of resources. If you must, put your name on the ballot, but don't campaign. The needs of workers everywhere are better served by tedious, grounds up organizing. That means building unions, strengthening local democratic communities, building a record in localities and municipalities towards making practical steps to organizing people towards taking more control of their work and their daily lives.

There's little hope for grand strategies. Just baby steps, building socialism one brick at a time until we can reach a decisive turning point.

[Aldheim]

And like the Tea Party did, we need to start crashing the Democratic Party primaries until they start paying attention to what's going on.

Out of curiosity, what would this accomplish?

[Wind in the Willows]

Now that you mentioned coup, you will probably be on an NSA watchlist.

You have to use the word often to make the PRISM watchlist.

Cool.

[Mike the Progressive]

And like the Tea Party did, we need to start crashing the Democratic Party primaries until they start paying attention to what's going on.

Out of curiosity, what would this accomplish?

Well it would get more Tea Partiers in congress, so...that?

[The Serbian Empire]

I already know it will not go anywhere knowing how much money is needed to win a national election. If it has enough legs to get 3 to 5% of the vote, the Democrats will attempt to reel them in to keep the GOP out of power.


It would be better to use the military to have a junta instead as a coup without the military is destined to fail in the US.

Whoever said anything about election campaigns?

They are a ridiculous waste of resources. If you must, put your name on the ballot, but don't campaign. The needs of workers everywhere are better served by tedious, grounds up organizing. That means building unions, strengthening local democratic communities, building a record in localities and municipalities towards making practical steps to organizing people towards taking more control of their work and their daily lives.

There's little hope for grand strategies. Just baby steps, building socialism one brick at a time until we can reach a decisive turning point.

The DNC would be scared of your plans and would find a way to stop them at whatever costs to keep their own power intact.

[Trotskylvania]

And like the Tea Party did, we need to start crashing the Democratic Party primaries until they start paying attention to what's going on.

Out of curiosity, what would this accomplish?

To the extent that we engage in electioneering at all, our singular goal must be the repeal of the Taft-Harley Act, which is what has enabled to constant crushing of worker's rights, and the regime of state "right to work" laws. So, urge people to go to the Democratic primaries, and support challengers to the incumbents until they start to pay attention. And have them wear a "Repeal Taft-Harley" sticker while they do it.

[Trotskylvania]

Whoever said anything about election campaigns?

They are a ridiculous waste of resources. If you must, put your name on the ballot, but don't campaign. The needs of workers everywhere are better served by tedious, grounds up organizing. That means building unions, strengthening local democratic communities, building a record in localities and municipalities towards making practical steps to organizing people towards taking more control of their work and their daily lives.

There's little hope for grand strategies. Just baby steps, building socialism one brick at a time until we can reach a decisive turning point.

The DNC would be scared of your plans and would find a way to stop them at whatever costs to keep their own power intact.

Let them. It only brings additional attention to what's going on, and would further undermine the Democratic Party (provided, of course, we even make it that far. It is not a given).

[The Serbian Empire]

The DNC would be scared of your plans and would find a way to stop them at whatever costs to keep their own power intact.

Let them. It only brings additional attention to what's going on, and would further undermine the Democratic Party (provided, of course, we even make it that far. It is not a given).

The margins that will threaten the Democrats are rather small given the GOP's ability to garner 47 to 48.5% of the vote.