Western 'Imperialism'

[Norfast]

Im a pro-Western Imperialist myself. The western world has given us great things; rights, intellectual and religious traditions, etc. The Renaissance set off a chain reaction that continues to this day in western innovation.

Seconded.

Unfortunately, western civilization is plagued with ennui and self-loathing lately. I'll let you guess which political ideology infects us with these ailments.

[Terraius]

Im a pro-Western Imperialist myself. The western world has given us great things; rights, intellectual and religious traditions, etc. The Renaissance set off a chain reaction that continues to this day in western innovation.

Seconded.

Unfortunately, western civilization is plagued with ennui and self-loathing lately. I'll let you guess which political ideology infects us with these ailments.

All of them, tbh

[Stamp Licking]

Seconded.

Unfortunately, western civilization is plagued with ennui and self-loathing lately. I'll let you guess which political ideology infects us with these ailments.

All of them, tbh

What do you suggest? Killing politics?

[Chulainan]

All of them, tbh

What do you suggest? Killing politics?

Sounds like a plan.....

[Terraius]

All of them, tbh

What do you suggest? Killing politics?

Pretty much, yes. Its just a fancy term for organized crime. I prefer a purely centralist ideology to dictate the growth and prosperity of the state and populace.

[Norfast]

Seconded.

Unfortunately, western civilization is plagued with ennui and self-loathing lately. I'll let you guess which political ideology infects us with these ailments.

All of them, tbh

Some ideologies have caused much more ennui and self-loathing in Western Civilization than other ideologies.

[Terraius]

Oh I agree. I have rightists but I really hate leftists.

[AustriaHungaryBohemia]

Some ideologies have caused much more ennui and self-loathing in Western Civilization than other ideologies.

Ooooh, unexpected! Please give us more of your refreshing insights!

[Stamp Licking]

What do you suggest? Killing politics?

Pretty much, yes. Its just a fancy term for organized crime. I prefer a purely centralist ideology to dictate the growth and prosperity of the state and populace.

So, you support Western civilization by killing its highest achievement (free political discussion)?
'cause the system you are describing is Oriental despotism.

[Norfast]

Some ideologies have caused much more ennui and self-loathing in Western Civilization than other ideologies.

Ooooh, unexpected! Please give us more of your refreshing insights!

Oh, I'm sorry... there has been absolutely no proclivity toward self-loathing and ennui in the west caused by the left wing over the last 50 years. Well done.

[AustriaHungaryBohemia]

Oh, I'm sorry... there has been absolutely no proclivity toward self-loathing and ennui in the west caused by the left wing over the last 50 years. Well done.

Ok, then please tell me, how has the left caused "ennui"?

EDITED to remove something that could be considered flaming, since this one is not worth getting angry over.

[Terraius]

Pretty much, yes. Its just a fancy term for organized crime. I prefer a purely centralist ideology to dictate the growth and prosperity of the state and populace.

So, you support Western civilization by killing its highest achievement (free political discussion)?
'cause the system you are describing is Oriental despotism.

No. The Roman Empire for centuries existed on a system that valued the success of the state and its population over 'right' and 'left' politics. If anything the only politics that existed in antiquity was the 'People' or the 'Aristocracy' more than anything else, and thats more of a class conflict then politicking.

[FPCCOS]

I think when in many cases where the West is accused of Imperialism, it is often justified. However, it is also true that corrupt dictatorships in the third world use Western Imperialism as an excuse for the horrible mismanagement of their country politically, economically and socially.

However, to say that Western Imperialism does not exist is simply an ugly lie and a distortion of reality.

For example, one example of Western Imperialism is interest bearing loans that are given to third - world countries. This loan supposedly helps to develop third world countries' economies, however it is very ineffective, often to the point of uselessness and becomes prohibitively expensive over time, to the point where countries can't afford to even pay the interest on the loan, let alone the loan itself. Western countries use these loans merely to make money for themselves and these loans do not genuinely help to alleviate poverty in third world countries, only helping to create corruption, nepotism, dependence on donor countries for imports, uncompetitive businesses, etc.

Another example is copyright law and patents. This is an example of Western Imperialism because patented products such as medicines for AIDS are sold to developing countries at exorbitant prices and developing countries are not allowed to copy these medicines at far cheaper prices and potentially save millions of lives. if this is not western imperialism, or at least injustice, then what is it? Copyright law and patents help to keep developing countries in poverty and prevents them from developing much faster and alleviating the poverty of their peoples, whilst western companies and countries profit from the royalties on their patented products.

[Terraius]

I think when in many cases where the West is accused of Imperialism, it is often justified

Great way to open your post, I do say good sir.

[FPCCOS]

I think when in many cases where the West is accused of Imperialism, it is often justified

Great way to open your post, I do say good sir.

thank you

[Norfast]

Oh, I'm sorry... there has been absolutely no proclivity toward self-loathing and ennui in the west caused by the left wing over the last 50 years. Well done.

Ok, then please tell me, how has the left caused "ennui"?

The proliferation of statism is the worst offender, leading to a host of problems. Add to that things like the denunciation of imperialism and the politicization of education.

[AustriaHungaryBohemia]

The proliferation of statism is the worst offender, leading to a host of problems. Add to that things like the denunciation of imperialism and the politicization of education.

Oh, so you are one of those "libertarians" I heard about. What "problems", exactly, are you referring to? Why do you consider imperialism a good thing? And when was education ever not politicised?

[Norfast]

Oh, so you are one of those "libertarians" I heard about.

No, not a libertarian. They have quite a lot of ideas I find batty. Can I however assume that you must be one of the liberals I'm talking about? Nice to meet you.

What "problems", exactly, are you referring to?

The problems caused by statism's stifling effects on verve.

Why do you consider imperialism a good thing?

Because it created dominant western civilizations.

And when was education ever not politicised?

It's been politicized by the left for decades. We see the results in things like time devoted to classes in tolerance and (group du jour) history while math, science, and even basic literacy scores continue to decline.

[AustriaHungaryBohemia]

And you must be one of the liberals I'm talking about. Nice to meet you.

The problems caused by statism's stifling effects on verve.

Because it created dominant western civilizations.

It's been politicized by the left for decades. We see the results in things like time devoted to classes in tolerance and (group du jour) history while math, science, and even basic literacy scores continue to decline.

You can throw words around all day, but neither "ennui" nor "verve" are anything but unnecessarily Francophone and very general terms. Can you point out more concrete problems?
The dominance of western civlizations came at the cost of widespread oppression. Why are you agreeing with this immense drawback?
Oh, so you only disagree with the left having influence in education. You are not opposed to the politicisation of education, but with leftist influence on education. Well, in that case you will just have to deal with it. Why should the right have the exclusive right to influence education? Additionally, I highly doubt it is the "politicisation" of education which brings down educational standards. How much time is devoted to "tolerance" classes, anyway? Exactly zero, in my experience. History classes do have to teach the history of other groups than whites, yes. However, that is a change to the history classes, not to the basic skills, such as writing. It should not take time out of them.

[Stamp Licking]

Why do you consider imperialism a good thing?

Because it created dominant western civilizations.

Imperialism, as we define it today, is a product of certain Western civilizations.
It is a relatively recent attitude (19th century).

[Norfast]

You can throw words around all day, but neither "ennui" nor "verve" are anything but unnecessarily Francophone and very general terms. Can you point out more concrete problems?

Some examples are: demographic decline, the rise of the welfare state with permanent classes of recipients, and an inability of all western countries (save one) to project power.

The dominance of western civlizations came at the cost of widespread oppression. Why are you agreeing with this immense drawback?

Because I'd rather that western civilization be on the giving end than the receiving end. If you think that some other civilization would not have (or won't in the future) filled a western vacuum, then your views on history are so odd that further discussion with you is pointless.

Oh, so you only disagree with the left having influence in education. You are not opposed to the politicisation of education, but with leftist influence on education. Well, in that case you will just have to deal with it. Why should the right have the exclusive right to influence education? Additionally, I highly doubt it is the "politicisation" of education which brings down educational standards. How much time is devoted to "tolerance" classes, anyway? Exactly zero, in my experience. History classes do have to teach the history of other groups than whites, yes. However, that is a change to the history classes, not to the basic skills, such as writing. It should not take time out of them.

Not sure what the universities are wasting their time on where you live, but they waste time and capital on this kind of nonsense here. Occupy Wall Street is filled to the brim with students who studied such subjects and now can't get a job. But if you ask them, it's other peoples' fault that they aren't being paid top wages for majoring in something like Mongolian Postmodern Literature.

[Norfast]

Because it created dominant western civilizations.

Imperialism, as we define it today, is a product of certain Western civilizations.
It is a relatively recent attitude (19th century).

Rome did a pretty good job in pursuing western imperialism. The Spaniards and Portuguese started again in the 1400s.

[Stamp Licking]

Imperialism, as we define it today, is a product of certain Western civilizations.
It is a relatively recent attitude (19th century).

Rome did a pretty good job in pursuing western imperialism. The Spaniards and Portuguese started again in the 1400s.

The situation of the Romans was completely different (slavery-based society ...).
Imperialism nowadays was reborn as an "upper stage" of colonialism, where world powers went beyond using colonies only for manpower/natural resources and started considering them valuable markets for their economy.

[Forster Keys]

You can throw words around all day, but neither "ennui" nor "verve" are anything but unnecessarily Francophone and very general terms. Can you point out more concrete problems?

Some examples are: demographic decline, the rise of the welfare state with permanent classes of recipients, and an inability of all western countries (save one) to project power.

What other power, apart from perhaps China, can? The demographic decline, once stabilised is good. The only issue, is that it isn't being replicated across the world. And being well acquainted with the welfare state I'm familiar with its many abuses, but I'd probably be an illiterate factory worker or dead if it wasn't for some of its many benefits.

[AustriaHungaryBohemia]

Some examples are: demographic decline, the rise of the welfare state with permanent classes of recipients, and an inability of all western countries (save one) to project power.
Because I'd rather that western civilization be on the giving end than the receiving end. If you think that some other civilization would not have (or won't in the future) filled a western vacuum, then your views on history are so odd that further discussion with you is pointless.
Not sure what the universities are wasting their time on where you live, but they waste time and capital on this kind of nonsense here. Occupy Wall Street is filled to the brim with students who studied such subjects and now can't get a job. But if you ask them, it's other peoples' fault that they aren't being paid top wages for majoring in something like Mongolian Postmodern Literature.

The demographic decline was caused by state interventionism how? As people get more affluent, they have fewer kids. That's a well-known effect. The welfare state has its faults, but it also prevents a lot of suffering and harshness, and I do not agree with every single aspect of it. For example, a duty to work for welfare recipients would be a good idea. Given fair wages, of course. Where do you want western countries to project power to, and to what purpose? Why should money be spent "projecting power" to far-away places when it can also be spent on helping the poor or (imagine angelic chorus here for our libertarian friends) tax cuts.
You want "western civilization" (a very ill-defined term, by the way) to give, no matter what it gives? That is easy to say for those who profit from it, but "fuck you, I got mine" is not normally considered a very high-standing moral philosophy.
Oh, so you were talking about universities. Why were you talking about literacy then? University is certainly not meant for the illiterate. And it is their duty to investigate all aspects of history, not only the pasty pale ones. On your complaint about Occupy Wall Street being full of students of supposedly "useless" subjects, I will only say "citation needed" and leave it at that.