by AiliailiA » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:20 am
Cannot think of a name wrote:"Where's my immortality?" will be the new "Where's my jetpack?"
Maineiacs wrote:"We're going to build a canal, and we're going to make Columbia pay for it!" -- Teddy Roosevelt
Ifreann wrote:That's not a Freudian slip. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother.
by Machiavellionia » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:29 am
Machiavellionia wrote:Interesting fact: Britain has only ever had two communist MPs (as in, members of the Communist party, rather than just, say, Labour members with communist tendencies) and they were both thrown out of Parliament in around 1962. For fighting. With each other.
by Jafas United » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:41 am
by Orcoa » Fri Jun 01, 2012 1:45 am
by AiliailiA » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:09 am
Machiavellionia wrote:In Britain, other than some opposition to same-sex rights, I don't think the Church has too big an impact on the state (even with the Lords spiritual).
This is why I thank my lucky stars I don't live in the US, where separation of Church and State doesn't really occur. The irony is that, with our Monarch the Head of State and head of the CofE, we still seem to be less governed religiously than the USA.
I'm not religious myself, nor do I believe that you have to be to have decent morals or ethics, but I do feel that the Church in England is on the whole a good thing. We're lucky, in that we tend to have cuddly Christians, generally, as opposed to the "God hates fags" (didn't know he felt that strongly about smoking) across the pond.
Cannot think of a name wrote:"Where's my immortality?" will be the new "Where's my jetpack?"
Maineiacs wrote:"We're going to build a canal, and we're going to make Columbia pay for it!" -- Teddy Roosevelt
Ifreann wrote:That's not a Freudian slip. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother.
by AiliailiA » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:15 am
Orcoa wrote:I find that most who are "Against"
not just christianity but all organized religion have either been in the faith growing up and has grown out of it out for many reasons...or they are doing it because Richard Darwin commands them to do so
Cannot think of a name wrote:"Where's my immortality?" will be the new "Where's my jetpack?"
Maineiacs wrote:"We're going to build a canal, and we're going to make Columbia pay for it!" -- Teddy Roosevelt
Ifreann wrote:That's not a Freudian slip. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother.
by AiliailiA » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:24 am
Jafas United wrote:The Church of Sweden ... the Bishop of Härnösand is a lesbian.
I guess though, the CoS had to reform to conform with the minds of a very secular and liberal nation.
That being said the Lutheran Church of Finland, which I was born into is still quite conservative, when it comes to homosexuality. Perhaps in time that will change, but we're still doing better than most American churches.
Cannot think of a name wrote:"Where's my immortality?" will be the new "Where's my jetpack?"
Maineiacs wrote:"We're going to build a canal, and we're going to make Columbia pay for it!" -- Teddy Roosevelt
Ifreann wrote:That's not a Freudian slip. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother.
by Khadgar » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:33 am
Ailiailia wrote:.
The Church of England is one of the most tolerant and progressive Christian Churches.
This is the Church that so many people emigrated to get away from. In the US, still wary of it when it came time to do the Constitution.
The CoE has gotten better.
Has it been a drag on the political liberalization of Britain? ... doesn't look that way.
Anybody who knows much about the Church of Sweden, etc, is invited to give other examples.
Or counter-examples.
Maybe Establishment of the Church isn't actually such an evil after all?
by Old Tyrannia » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:41 am
by Orcoa » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:52 am
Ailiailia wrote:Orcoa wrote:I find that most who are "Against"
Now there's a thought. I'll add a poll.not just christianity but all organized religion have either been in the faith growing up and has grown out of it out for many reasons...or they are doing it because Richard Darwin commands them to do so
They're a big family those Darwins.
Do you mean Charles? The one with thousands of species named after him who banged up his cousin?
by Jafas United » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:55 am
Lutherans, dunno much about them. Got the name Luther I guess ... probably broadly Protestant.
How long has the church been Established there?
Is the Finnish variety more or less progressive than the Lutheran Church elsewhere?
I'm not asking you to be super-expert. Anything is more than I know.
by AiliailiA » Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:56 am
Cannot think of a name wrote:"Where's my immortality?" will be the new "Where's my jetpack?"
Maineiacs wrote:"We're going to build a canal, and we're going to make Columbia pay for it!" -- Teddy Roosevelt
Ifreann wrote:That's not a Freudian slip. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother.
by Forster Keys » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 am
Jafas United wrote:
I don't know the Lutheran Church all over. I'm Lutheran in name only, though I don't practise. But I'm here to help.
by Orcoa » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:00 am
by Jafas United » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:06 am
by AiliailiA » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:06 am
Old Tyrannia wrote:Organized religion has the potential to be a great force for good. In many ways, it already is- even the super-ebil bloodsucking child-fiddling gay-hating Roman Catholic Church does a huge amount of charity work
, not to mention preserving many of the world's greatest works of art and architecture. Occasionally they'll even take a stand against immoral or oppressive governments, such as in Nazi Germany where Clemens August Graf von Galen, the Bishop of Münster, helped to expose and end the Nazis' mass euthanasia project. The Church of England is great because it's modern and forward-thinking whilst still preserving all the tradition, pomp and ceremony of the medieval church, which all those boring Protestants want to do away with.
Cannot think of a name wrote:"Where's my immortality?" will be the new "Where's my jetpack?"
Maineiacs wrote:"We're going to build a canal, and we're going to make Columbia pay for it!" -- Teddy Roosevelt
Ifreann wrote:That's not a Freudian slip. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother.
by Saint Abbra » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:07 am
by AiliailiA » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:11 am
Cannot think of a name wrote:"Where's my immortality?" will be the new "Where's my jetpack?"
Maineiacs wrote:"We're going to build a canal, and we're going to make Columbia pay for it!" -- Teddy Roosevelt
Ifreann wrote:That's not a Freudian slip. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother.
by The Realm of God » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:12 am
Ailiailia wrote:Machiavellionia wrote:In Britain, other than some opposition to same-sex rights, I don't think the Church has too big an impact on the state (even with the Lords spiritual).
If I remember correctly, the Church offered other Churches places among the Lords Spiritual. There was a Rabbi but when he retired (from the Lords? Doesn't sound right does it. Why would anyone do that? They have to turn up once a week or something, enter the Lords, leave again ... hang out having free booze and snacks if they feel that way inclined ...anyway) and a Mullah. I think the Mullah is still there, a place is open for any Rabbi who wants it ... something like that.
You mentioned the House of Lords, so I am duty bound as a Socialist and Republican to make fun of them.
The Lords don't get to Consent any more, and all the Advising they do could be done by emailing junkmail@number10.gov.uk
"Lords Spiritual and Temporal in This Place Assembled" lol. And Sea Lords, what's with them? I'll bet they're all Men.This is why I thank my lucky stars I don't live in the US, where separation of Church and State doesn't really occur. The irony is that, with our Monarch the Head of State and head of the CofE, we still seem to be less governed religiously than the USA.
Yes, that was my point.
CoE has gotten better due to it's privileged position with respect to government. Some of the democratic will to liberalism over the last couple of centuries has "rubbed off" on the CoE.
I'm not religious myself, nor do I believe that you have to be to have decent morals or ethics, but I do feel that the Church in England is on the whole a good thing. We're lucky, in that we tend to have cuddly Christians, generally, as opposed to the "God hates fags" (didn't know he felt that strongly about smoking) across the pond.
Still, it's only one example.
"Established Churches" include Shia and Sunni Muslim ones (Sunnis seem less intrusive on the state, think CoE in England v. Catholic in Ireland). Christianity in the Philippines. Something to do with saunas and lots of healthy safe bumsex in Sweden. I don't by any means claim to be making a general observation about all Established Churches.
It's just that one example which really struck me.
Anglican is a closely related Church to Church of England I think. Probably the same thing, but they changed the name so people would stop throwing rocks and breaking their windows.
by Johz » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:16 am
Ailiailia wrote:Anglican is a closely related Church to Church of England I think. Probably the same thing, but they changed the name so people would stop throwing rocks and breaking their windows.Machiavellionia wrote:In Britain, other than some opposition to same-sex rights, I don't think the Church has too big an impact on the state (even with the Lords spiritual).
If I remember correctly, the Church offered other Churches places among the Lords Spiritual. There was a Rabbi but when he retired (from the Lords? Doesn't sound right does it. Why would anyone do that? They have to turn up once a week or something, enter the Lords, leave again ... hang out having free booze and snacks if they feel that way inclined ...anyway) and a Mullah. I think the Mullah is still there, a place is open for any Rabbi who wants it ... something like that.
You mentioned the House of Lords, so I am duty bound as a Socialist and Republican to make fun of them.
The Lords don't get to Consent any more, and all the Advising they do could be done by emailing junkmail@number10.gov.uk
"Lords Spiritual and Temporal in This Place Assembled" lol. And Sea Lords, what's with them? I'll bet they're all Men.This is why I thank my lucky stars I don't live in the US, where separation of Church and State doesn't really occur. The irony is that, with our Monarch the Head of State and head of the CofE, we still seem to be less governed religiously than the USA.
Yes, that was my point.
CoE has gotten better due to it's privileged position with respect to government. Some of the democratic will to liberalism over the last couple of centuries has "rubbed off" on the CoE.
I'm not religious myself, nor do I believe that you have to be to have decent morals or ethics, but I do feel that the Church in England is on the whole a good thing. We're lucky, in that we tend to have cuddly Christians, generally, as opposed to the "God hates fags" (didn't know he felt that strongly about smoking) across the pond.
Still, it's only one example.
"Established Churches" include Shia and Sunni Muslim ones (Sunnis seem less intrusive on the state, think CoE in England v. Catholic in Ireland). Christianity in the Philippines. Something to do with saunas and lots of healthy safe bumsex in Sweden. I don't by any means claim to be making a general observation about all Established Churches.
It's just that one example which really struck me.
by The Realm of God » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:19 am
Johz wrote:Ailiailia wrote:Anglican is a closely related Church to Church of England I think. Probably the same thing, but they changed the name so people would stop throwing rocks and breaking their windows.If I remember correctly, the Church offered other Churches places among the Lords Spiritual. There was a Rabbi but when he retired (from the Lords? Doesn't sound right does it. Why would anyone do that? They have to turn up once a week or something, enter the Lords, leave again ... hang out having free booze and snacks if they feel that way inclined ...anyway) and a Mullah. I think the Mullah is still there, a place is open for any Rabbi who wants it ... something like that.
You mentioned the House of Lords, so I am duty bound as a Socialist and Republican to make fun of them.
The Lords don't get to Consent any more, and all the Advising they do could be done by emailing junkmail@number10.gov.uk
"Lords Spiritual and Temporal in This Place Assembled" lol. And Sea Lords, what's with them? I'll bet they're all Men.
Yes, that was my point.
CoE has gotten better due to it's privileged position with respect to government. Some of the democratic will to liberalism over the last couple of centuries has "rubbed off" on the CoE.
Still, it's only one example.
"Established Churches" include Shia and Sunni Muslim ones (Sunnis seem less intrusive on the state, think CoE in England v. Catholic in Ireland). Christianity in the Philippines. Something to do with saunas and lots of healthy safe bumsex in Sweden. I don't by any means claim to be making a general observation about all Established Churches.
It's just that one example which really struck me.
I believe the CoE is a church denomination in its own right, but it falls under the banner of the wider Anglican church. Thus you have Tutu who is an Anglican in South Africa, but obviously not part of the Church of England. The Anglican church probably stemmed, then, from the Church of England during the colonial period.
But in England they are one and the same.
by Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:19 am
Johz wrote:Ailiailia wrote:Anglican is a closely related Church to Church of England I think. Probably the same thing, but they changed the name so people would stop throwing rocks and breaking their windows.If I remember correctly, the Church offered other Churches places among the Lords Spiritual. There was a Rabbi but when he retired (from the Lords? Doesn't sound right does it. Why would anyone do that? They have to turn up once a week or something, enter the Lords, leave again ... hang out having free booze and snacks if they feel that way inclined ...anyway) and a Mullah. I think the Mullah is still there, a place is open for any Rabbi who wants it ... something like that.
You mentioned the House of Lords, so I am duty bound as a Socialist and Republican to make fun of them.
The Lords don't get to Consent any more, and all the Advising they do could be done by emailing junkmail@number10.gov.uk
"Lords Spiritual and Temporal in This Place Assembled" lol. And Sea Lords, what's with them? I'll bet they're all Men.
Yes, that was my point.
CoE has gotten better due to it's privileged position with respect to government. Some of the democratic will to liberalism over the last couple of centuries has "rubbed off" on the CoE.
Still, it's only one example.
"Established Churches" include Shia and Sunni Muslim ones (Sunnis seem less intrusive on the state, think CoE in England v. Catholic in Ireland). Christianity in the Philippines. Something to do with saunas and lots of healthy safe bumsex in Sweden. I don't by any means claim to be making a general observation about all Established Churches.
It's just that one example which really struck me.
I believe the CoE is a church denomination in its own right, but it falls under the banner of the wider Anglican church. Thus you have Tutu who is an Anglican in South Africa, but obviously not part of the Church of England. The Anglican church probably stemmed, then, from the Church of England during the colonial period.
But in England they are one and the same.
by The Realm of God » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:21 am
Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f wrote:Johz wrote:I believe the CoE is a church denomination in its own right, but it falls under the banner of the wider Anglican church. Thus you have Tutu who is an Anglican in South Africa, but obviously not part of the Church of England. The Anglican church probably stemmed, then, from the Church of England during the colonial period.
But in England they are one and the same.
Doesn't the Archbishop of Canterbury have some official capacity in terms of being (for want of a better expression) the head of the entire Anglican ministry?
by AiliailiA » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:28 am
How long has the church been Established there?
The Finnish Lutheran Church itself was established in 1809. However, Lutheranism itself has been in Finland since the Reformation, around the 1520s, but until 1809, we were part of the Lutheran Church of Sweden.
Is the Finnish variety more or less progressive than the Lutheran Church elsewhere?
Compared to the other Nordic varieties i.e. Swedish, Danish, Norwegian and Icelandic, it's probably the most conservative. Though its probably more progressive than the German and American Churches.
I'm not asking you to be super-expert. Anything is more than I know.
I don't know the Lutheran Church all over. I'm Lutheran in name only, though I don't practise. But I'm here to help.
Cannot think of a name wrote:"Where's my immortality?" will be the new "Where's my jetpack?"
Maineiacs wrote:"We're going to build a canal, and we're going to make Columbia pay for it!" -- Teddy Roosevelt
Ifreann wrote:That's not a Freudian slip. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother.
by AiliailiA » Fri Jun 01, 2012 3:33 am
The Realm of God wrote:Johz wrote:I believe the CoE is a church denomination in its own right, but it falls under the banner of the wider Anglican church. Thus you have Tutu who is an Anglican in South Africa, but obviously not part of the Church of England. The Anglican church probably stemmed, then, from the Church of England during the colonial period.
But in England they are one and the same.
This and this-
I am sorry I must correct you Anglicanism is a religion based around the fusion of Catholic and Protestant traditions following an Episcopal Polity. The CofE is an Anglican Church and so is the Episcopal Church in the United States.
It is the third largest branch of Christinity which follows the protecals 1692 Book of Common Prayer.
Cannot think of a name wrote:"Where's my immortality?" will be the new "Where's my jetpack?"
Maineiacs wrote:"We're going to build a canal, and we're going to make Columbia pay for it!" -- Teddy Roosevelt
Ifreann wrote:That's not a Freudian slip. A Freudian slip is when you say one thing and mean your mother.
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