[DRAFT] CONDEMN THE INTERNATIONALE

[Populii]

Congratulations Pandemicia, out of a region of almost 200 nations you found 4 that participated in Antifa actions. Surely the entire region deserves a condemnation for that.

So far New Heathera is the only one that's made the distinction between The Internationale and Antifa, as most of the posters here seem to use the two interchangeably (incorrectly).

[New Heathera]

But Fascist Europe is nolonger under occupation by The Internationale. What happened over a year ago isn't really useful now.

And alright, you proved members of The Internationale were involved in those raids. Now prove The Internationale's government was behind the actions of those nations.

It proves that The Internationale has participated in raiding and griefing, thusly showing that it is indeed a threat.

Seeing that The Internationale RMB does not state which nations are participating in governing the region (it does not even state that there is a government governing The Internationale) and that guests cannot access that information on their regional forum, that task is unfeasible. My case still stands.

Well The Internationale (along with the rest of ANTIFA) seems to take great pride in their work. I feel The Internationale's founder would be happy to confirm your accusations if you ask.

[Marxingrad]

Firstly Pandemica, just because someone is in your region, doesn't mean they act on the regions behalf. Shall I come and reside in The Nationalist Union and then go on a raid and try and get a condemnation started? It's just not as simple as that. For instance, Multifarious Anarcho is actually residing in MT Army right now. Does that mean he was ever a member of our region? Or MT Army? Or is he flitting from region to region? Who can say, except those that know them personally? The members of The Internationale that act on behalf of Antifa are not compelled by the Internationals government, and nor are the decisions of Antifa made by the electorate of The Internationale. Therefore you can't simply suggest that The Internationale is a "raider" region, when a couple of members involve themselves in said "hostile" actions.

If you wish to condemn anyone, condemn me? I'm an active "raider", I'm proud of it. But wait... surely Pandemica, for all the griefing you've done of Communist regions when you were a member of GGR, despite being now (or having been?) a member of the UDL, I guess you'll be in line for one as well???

[Noemi Sanin]

Juan Manuel Santos, your posts suggest a certain level of desperation. Let's make a few points.
1. I'm using just 1 nation to make my comments, you're using at least two, why is that?

I don't need to hide myself like the people in your region, I'm always saying who I am.

I've been entirely open and honest, I've refuted your claims, I've also provided lots of statements to testify the complete opposite to what you've claimed. You've failed to provide any concrete evidence to substantiate a single claim of yours, simply repeating yourself doesn't make it correct the 10th time you've stated your case.

Don't lie, the people know that The Internationale lies constantly in order to prevent a Condemnation for it's actions. You have threatened my region with an invasion if I continue to seek this proposal. You have a double standard, you have always a mask for every scenario. On one side you have the extremists insulting, raiding, sabotaging, making-up stories about who is fascist, like for example: In you region, some are saying that I'm a right wing fascist even thought YOU DON'T KNOW ME, you have said HERE you don't know where I came from. People, we have a region that acts, celebrates and legitimates the acts of all it's members, but when comes to face the facts they hide their perversions.

3. Your continual use of words such as "fascist", "totalitarian", "discriminatory" are used to blur the lines and confuse the points. I (as have others) have suggested you are potentially a fascist in hiding, but we're careful to draw distinctions where required, you cannot simply throw out terms that mean next to nothing in the hope that it will win support for your cause. If you need help actually understanding Fascism then please ask away, I can fill you in on some gaps in your knowledge. One thing I can assure you, whatever ill you may think of The Internationale we're not fascist. The glove simply doesn't fit.

The Internationale has failed in their mission of fight against fascism. You have failed in that mission, today, everyone can see that you own one of the largest empires in nationstates universe. You have become as raider, as intolerant, as any other region that you hate. You cannot call me fascist without probes, where is the probe that I am a fascist, where is? I don't have any, but anything, related to fascism. I'm the founder of an independent region, who seeks peace, goodwill, but I cannot shut up, when I see what your regions do. You have to be stoped. The actions you are doing must be condemned... You are as authoritarian and cheater, as any other. You are not honest or trasnparent. I'm not as good as the people who have written SC proposals, I know that, but make no mistake that I will wait for their help no matter how long it takes me.

4. I see a "handful" of people seeking our condemnation, the majority of which I recognise, so am not wholly surprised (for the most part, upset fascists, nationalists, conservatives, oh and the odd social democrats who got their toes trodden on when they intervened where they shouldn't have!) to see them posting here, but in reality this post doesn't have too much support. Frankly, I expected a little more.

I will not lie in something that It's obvious and makes sense, I have provided implicitly the perfect opportunity for your enemies. But that WILL NEVER MEAN I have an alliance with them, you are lying once more, extremists like you love to distort the facts, NOT EVERYTHING IS WHITE OR BLACK: If someone is not supporting you then he, automatically becomes a fascist right-wing supporter. That's the extremism intolerance that lies in the Internarionale. Intolerance and your power-seeking mission around the world raiding anyone who is not a left-wing supporter. I have recieved alot of Telegrams from independent regions that wish your condemnation, they understand the case I'm making here, althought they say I need to improve the resolution. I'm working on that. If someone want's to help me TG me, any help is well-recieved

5. I think you are actually getting mildly confused. Our region is a participant of "Antifa", a cross-regional organisation that undertakes a fight against Fascism. Not everyone in our region (in fact, it would probably be a minority) is a participant, and therefore your condemnation is really flawed on even it's most basic premise.

The world knows what have you become, the condemnation is knocking the door of the Internationale. Whatever is me, or someone else that will make it possible. People know you hide your acts, you lie, you insult the whole world for example: with Nationalist Union re-foundation. You raid non-political regions, and when comes to face the facts and acts like real people, you hide behind that very small rock where you start denying everything. I say very small rock because I can see your lies.

This condemnation is nothing but a flagrant attempt by a few misguided individuals, who are winging it with the support (if not outright collusion) of some fascists who've taken us to task, because frankly, they're completely unable to fight their own battles. The biggest hypocrisy is that (except for the person proposing, who has seemingly come out of nowhere to make this proposal, making it appear quite likely they're actually a puppet of some group far more sinister than the perceived front being displayed here) those popping out of the woodwork are mostly fascists who have been involved with the exploits of either GGR or older fascist regions, who have disregarded the regional sovereignty of a huge number of regions in an attempt to build a phony empire, if this goes through because of the malicious lies of a bunch of fascist hypocrits, then I'll be highly disappointed with the rest of the supposedly "free-thinking" NS community.

Don't hesitate, THE SPIRIT OF THIS PROPOSAL IS WELL-UNDERSTANDED AND SUPPORTED. I'm know I am a very new player, but I will continue to seek your condemnation. Because, I know my case is the right one. The internationale has become a corrupt power seeker intolerant region, runed by discriminatory extremists who wish to bully the world.

[Sedgistan]

Players are reminded that puppetwank - the use of more than one nation to post in a proposal debate thread - is not allowed in the WA. If it continues, we will publicly out those puppets. Please end it immediately, so that we don't have to do that.

[Populii]

Who's "puppetwanking?"
Other than Juan Manuel Santos.

[Marxingrad]

^ Exactly.

Also JMS.

I will state again for the sake of giving you an opportunity to address the real issue.

Please provide evidence for the aforementioned crimes. It's one thing repeating, stressing and adding capitals to your words to make you seem authoritative on the subject of our criminality, but without any attempt to provide evidence starts to make you seem extremely desperate. If you are surprised of my suspicions then you are sincerely naive, the way in which you aggressively taunt me and my Comrades over the notions of the condemnation suggest that you are an upset fascist/nationalist/nazi/conservative (please delete as appropriate) or someone else who's recently been upset by events. If that is not the case, then I struggle to understand where all this rage comes from.

Also, no-one has threatened to attack your region. On the contrary you were banned from The Internationale for trolling with at least two separate puppets and a farcical "declaration of war". This makes your SC proposal stand like ice in hot water. I really can't be bothered to address the rest of your pompous, self-serving and entirely hollow rhetoric, as I've tried on multiple occasions to be faced simply with the same wall of text, with additions such as the "bold" and "capitals" to assert your still entirely baseless and ridiculous claims.

Have a nice day.

[Victor Victory]

I agree with Marxingrad.
I also think those nations who support this poorly thought out condemnation are allowing their own bias to cloud their judgement.

[New Heathera]

I agree with Marxingrad.
I also think those nations who support this poorly thought out condemnation are allowing their own bias to cloud their judgement.

Well just to be fair, The Internationale DOES raid. Regardless of your bias, raiding is still raiding.

[Of the Free Socialist Territories]

The Internationale raid really, really rarely - in fact, as far as I'm aware, they refound more than they raid, and they refound rarely. Some of their members may raid as members of The Red Fleet, or simply as part of Antifa. No-one is denying that. Those guys (Antifa etc.) raid like crazy, so condemn if you want, although it won't be appreciated by the Left, but you shouldn't condemn The Internationale because some of its members raid on behalf of an umbrella organisation to which The Internationale belongs.

[Disturbed]

Codemn them!

[Connopolis]

The Internationale raid really, really rarely - in fact, as far as I'm aware, they refound more than they raid, and they refound rarely. Some of their members may raid as members of The Red Fleet, or simply as part of Antifa. No-one is denying that. Those guys (Antifa etc.) raid like crazy, so condemn if you want, although it won't be appreciated by the Left, but you shouldn't condemn The Internationale because some of its members raid on behalf of an umbrella organisation to which The Internationale belongs.

It would be alright if that was the case, but it's not just "a few nations participating." Both Antifa, and the Red Fleet are advertised in their World Factbook Entry, complete with introductory video and propaganda. So please, don't try and mitigate the circumstances.

[Consejo de Indias]

I think there were enough arguments in this debate to realize that Republic of Colombia serves the interests of Brasil and The Greater German Reich ... And I have evidence of that!

[New Heathera]

I think there were enough arguments in this debate to realize that Republic of Colombia serves the interests of Brasil and The Greater German Reich ... And I have evidence of that!

Now why the heck does that matter for any reason other than... well I don't even know why you said that.

[Juan Manuel Santos]

I think there were enough arguments in this debate to realize that Republic of Colombia serves the interests of Brasil and The Greater German Reich ... And I have evidence of that!

Now why the heck does that matter for any reason other than... well I don't even know why you said that.

Because he is a troll.

For everyone, thank you for all the support via TG. I will make this proposal look better, I'm a little busy with my career so I have no time to look at this. Together we will achieve this condemnation.

[EMPIRE]

http://internationale.webs.com/antifaredfleet.htm

This is very out-of-date, missing out kolovo, the fascist northern imperium, and a few others which I know about, however it provides quite a lot of names.

[Hesse]

I support this condemnation.