America: Men are passive, says girls.

[Doppio Giudici]

Wel it depends because this could be fake. For a while we had power over their lives but then we do crazy things because it get you girls. So I guess it depends were you go from their because I normally start a conversion not her. How ever if she doesn't respond then I'm just talking to myself. Long story short we are both in some stage of power and we both think we have control.

[Ashmoria]

I don't think so, I think they are just eclipsed by the feminists and lack of attention by the media.

Again with the feminists. Can you even name a prominent feminist without Googling 'prominent feminists'? Seriously now, I'm half-tempted to launch into a rant about this mysterious group of feminists that are apparently nameless, numberless and seek the destruction of male-ness for all time despite being as elusive as a summer breeze.

shhhhhhh if he tells you, she'll have to kill you.

[Trotskylvania]

and lack of attention by the media.

Interesting. Explain, please.

If anything, the role models have just become more and more ultra-masculine, to the point of caricature.

Like who (which role models)?

Watch an hour of professional sports

[BlackMetal]

Again with the feminists. Can you even name a prominent feminist without Googling 'prominent feminists'? Seriously now, I'm half-tempted to launch into a rant about this mysterious group of feminists that are apparently nameless, numberless and seek the destruction of male-ness for all time despite being as elusive as a summer breeze.

The feminists in the media are not very fair. They are usually the types who want men to pay for meals when dating, while promoting women's interests in the job market. Such hypocrisy shouldn't be tolerated by feminists and non-feminists alike. Not all feminists are good. These hypocritical types want men to be passive, in my opinion.

[Conserative Morality]

If anything, the role models have just become more and more ultra-masculine, to the point of caricature.

Yeah, but at the same time, there are less hard-bitten Noir private eyes around.

[Ifreann]

I commend you on that, frankly.
I don't appreciate men who falsely claim to be tough, just to satiate their ego. Some men, such as myself, have nearly all of the classically labeled "masculine" traits, and we don't have to prove ourselves with obviation.

You, me, old-timey bare-knuckle boxing match.

No brass knuckles? No Wolverine claws? Bah!

[The Drone Empire]

Not where I go they are.

[Euronion]

I don't think so, I think they are just eclipsed by the feminists and lack of attention by the media.

Again with the feminists. Can you even name a prominent feminist without Googling 'prominent feminists'? Seriously now, I'm half-tempted to launch into a rant about this mysterious group of feminists that are apparently nameless, numberless and seek the destruction of male-ness for all time despite being as elusive as a summer breeze.

no, lol, that's not what I mean, I mean that male rolemodels are eclipsed in the media by feminists, because the media reports more on feminist actions than masculinist(?) actions. Feminists and Feminist movements get a lot more attention from the media than Masculinist(?) movements, because honestly who would watch the News if they were reporting on Men protesting for men to be more manly.

[Avenio]

Again with the feminists. Can you even name a prominent feminist without Googling 'prominent feminists'? Seriously now, I'm half-tempted to launch into a rant about this mysterious group of feminists that are apparently nameless, numberless and seek the destruction of male-ness for all time despite being as elusive as a summer breeze.

The feminists in the media are not very fair. They are usually the types who want men to pay for meals when dating, while promoting women's interests in the job market. Such hypocrisy shouldn't be tolerated by feminists and non-feminists alike. Not all feminists are good. These hypocritical types want men to be passive, in my opinion.

Name one. Without Googling. If it's such a problem in the media you should be able to name one.

[Trotskylvania]

Again with the feminists. Can you even name a prominent feminist without Googling 'prominent feminists'? Seriously now, I'm half-tempted to launch into a rant about this mysterious group of feminists that are apparently nameless, numberless and seek the destruction of male-ness for all time despite being as elusive as a summer breeze.

The feminists in the media are not very fair. They are usually the types who want men to pay for meals when dating, while promoting women's interests in the job market. Such hypocrisy shouldn't be tolerated by feminists and non-feminists alike. Not all feminists are good. These hypocritical types want men to be passive, in my opinion.

Start naming names. Show us examples, studies about how feminists act, something. Don't insinuate character defamation like this without giving some evidence.

I mostly roll with feminists, male and female, and they're pretty much the opposite of this.

[BlackMetal]

Watch an hour of professional sports

It's not uncommon for athletes to get involved in trouble and drugs.

http://www.additiontolife.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/main12.jpg
http://www.celebrityhaircutstyles.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Chris-Andersen-Haircut-Styles1.jpg

I would NEVER have a child of mine look up to any of these "role models". They aren't masculine; they are thugs. They look like it too. I think the previous point is correct: We have bad role models.

[Dunderberry]

Pretty much sums it up, I think.

Sums pretty much everything up, actually.

yeah

if men are happy being passive and if there are plenty of women who prefer passive men, what would the problem be?

Well, now that I think about it, passive seems like a negative way of saying it. It just needs a little rebranding, then it won't look like there's a problem.

"Agreeable," maybe? "Un-feral?" "Totally-okay-with-seeing-your-friends-tonight-dear?"

[Euronion]

and I don't know about you, but I hear a lot about this "girls like sensitive guys" thing, I personally don't believe it, but maybe some do and this is why they are becoming less manly, it could also be an affect of urbinization, honestly how many men in the city need to be ultra manly? we're not the Wholli Mammoth hunters of old, men are changing, we are adapting to our new enviroment, the city.

[Euronion]

The feminists in the media are not very fair. They are usually the types who want men to pay for meals when dating, while promoting women's interests in the job market. Such hypocrisy shouldn't be tolerated by feminists and non-feminists alike. Not all feminists are good. These hypocritical types want men to be passive, in my opinion.

Name one. Without Googling. If it's such a problem in the media you should be able to name one.

fine, I'll use Bing

[Trotskylvania]

Watch an hour of professional sports

It's not uncommon for athletes to get involved in trouble and drugs.

http://www.additiontolife.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/main12.jpg
http://www.celebrityhaircutstyles.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Chris-Andersen-Haircut-Styles1.jpg

I would NEVER have a child of mine look up to any of these "role models". They aren't masculine; they are thugs. They look like it too. I think the previous point is correct: We have bad role models.

You don't get to decide what masculine means for people.

Professional athletes pretty much embody all of your precious "classic" masculine features, only taken to 11.

[Euronion]

It's not uncommon for athletes to get involved in trouble and drugs.

http://www.additiontolife.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/main12.jpg
http://www.celebrityhaircutstyles.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Chris-Andersen-Haircut-Styles1.jpg

I would NEVER have a child of mine look up to any of these "role models". They aren't masculine; they are thugs. They look like it too. I think the previous point is correct: We have bad role models.

You don't get to decide what masculine means for people.

Professional athletes pretty much embody all of your precious "classic" masculine features, only taken to 11.

yes because Michael Fhelps smoking pot is a real "classic" masculine feature.

[BlackMetal]

The feminists in the media are not very fair. They are usually the types who want men to pay for meals when dating, while promoting women's interests in the job market. Such hypocrisy shouldn't be tolerated by feminists and non-feminists alike. Not all feminists are good. These hypocritical types want men to be passive, in my opinion.

Start naming names. Show us examples, studies about how feminists act, something. Don't insinuate character defamation like this without giving some evidence.

I mostly roll with feminists, male and female, and they're pretty much the opposite of this.

I meant to say, "Some of the feminists..." at the beginning of my post. I don't know how I missed that.
I was trying to point out how some feminists leave the core of the movement to make talking points on the news. Hopefully, my point makes more sense. I know the exception isn't the rule, but I think the exceptions in feminism draw a lot of negative attention (thereby harming it as a whole, unfairly of course).

[Ashmoria]

yeah

if men are happy being passive and if there are plenty of women who prefer passive men, what would the problem be?

Well, now that I think about it, passive seems like a negative way of saying it. It just needs a little rebranding, then it won't look like there's a problem.

"Agreeable," maybe? "Un-feral?" "Totally-okay-with-seeing-your-friends-tonight-dear?"

much nicer.

it helps illustrate how its not a problem at all.

why would anyone want more agressive men?

[Trotskylvania]

and I don't know about you, but I hear a lot about this "girls like sensitive guys" thing, I personally don't believe it, but maybe some do and this is why they are becoming less manly, it could also be an affect of urbinization, honestly how many men in the city need to be ultra manly? we're not the Wholli Mammoth hunters of old, men are changing, we are adapting to our new enviroment, the city.

One doesn't get an athletic physique by working on the farm...

[BlackMetal]

yes because Michael Fhelps smoking pot is a real "classic" masculine feature.

YES. My point exactly: Men shouldn't be looking up to these thuggish athletes. They are piss-poor role models, and little boys shouldn't revere them in the slightest.

[Ashmoria]

Start naming names. Show us examples, studies about how feminists act, something. Don't insinuate character defamation like this without giving some evidence.

I mostly roll with feminists, male and female, and they're pretty much the opposite of this.

I meant to say, "Some of the feminists..." at the beginning of my post. I don't know how I missed that.
I was trying to point out how some feminists leave the core of the movement to make talking points on the news. Hopefully, my point makes more sense. I know the exception isn't the rule, but I think the exceptions in feminism draw a lot of negative attention (thereby harming it as a whole, unfairly of course).

you still havent named any names.

[BlackMetal]

and I don't know about you, but I hear a lot about this "girls like sensitive guys" thing, I personally don't believe it, but maybe some do and this is why they are becoming less manly, it could also be an affect of urbinization, honestly how many men in the city need to be ultra manly? we're not the Wholli Mammoth hunters of old, men are changing, we are adapting to our new enviroment, the city.

I don't believe it, either. Some girls do. However, in my experience (usually, with fit, educated women), women prefer assertive men over passive ones, overall.

[Euronion]

yes because Michael Fhelps smoking pot is a real "classic" masculine feature.

YES. My point exactly: Men shouldn't be looking up to these thuggish athletes. They are piss-poor role models, and little boys shouldn't revere them in the slightest.

I personally revere men like Sun Tzu, Ghandi, Martin Luther King Jr. ect.
Men who have earned respect the correct way, through their actions, not their physique

[BlackMetal]

I personally revere men like Sun Tzu, Ghandi, Martin Luther King Jr. ect.
Men who have earned respect the correct way, through their actions, not their physique

Indeed. Sun Tzu especially!

[Trotskylvania]

You don't get to decide what masculine means for people.

Professional athletes pretty much embody all of your precious "classic" masculine features, only taken to 11.

yes because Michael Fhelps smoking pot is a real "classic" masculine feature.

That doesn't even enter into the equation.

yes because Michael Fhelps smoking pot is a real "classic" masculine feature.

YES. My point exactly: Men shouldn't be looking up to these thuggish athletes. They are piss-poor role models, and little boys shouldn't revere them in the slightest.

Classic male role models throughout history have invariably been thugs of some sort. The "thuggery" of a modern pro-athlete pales in comparison to yesteryears' role models.