God died in Auschwitz

[Tlaceceyaya]

As is the Bhagavad Gita. Your point?

God cannot be compared to a person, is my point

Sorry, I meant the first "sentence," wherein you said that the bible is a holy book, implying it is magically true.

[Crystalcliff Point]

that is for the father to do.

Who are we to judge? that is for the Bible to define for us

All I'm going to say is that if I was an all-powerful, all-knowing deity... Columbus wouldn't have been discovering the new world. He'd be exploring mars.

I wouldn't have outright lied to my children.

All flying insects that walk on all fours are to be detestable to you. There are, however, some winged creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat: those that have jointed legs for hopping on the ground. Of these you may eat any kind of locust, katydid, cricket or grasshopper. But all other winged creatures that have four legs you are to detest."

Then he made the molten sea; it was round, ten cubits from brim to brim, and five cubits high. A line of thirty cubits would encircle it completely.

It messed up mathematically?

And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

Describes stars as tiny objects in sky that will fall down when Jesus comes back.

I also wouldn't contradict myself.

God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6

God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48
God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2

God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16

God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28

*Headache* Ugh...

[Orcoa]

God cannot be compared to a person, is my point

Neither can Poseidon, but I can still call him an asshole for causing the Earthquake in Japan.

I thought it was Godzilla again? Damnit! I was lied to by Fox News Again!

[Vazdania]

it is a holy Book. Furthermore God is not a person obviously and cannot be compared to one

God is 3 persons, actually.

not if you are non trinitarian, God is one, Jesus is one, the Holy Spirit is one.

[Seperates]

it is a holy Book. Furthermore God is not a person obviously and cannot be compared to one

God is 3 persons, actually.

If you believe in the mind-fuck that is Catholicism.

[Distruzio]

So basically we can torture our children and say, "We're testing them."

that is for the father to do.

Who are we to judge? that is for the Bible to define for us

No. The bible does not.

[Genivaria]

And therefore has no rights.

Animals have rights too? God far exceeds Humans and does not need Human rights, laughable

Animals have rights too?

So God is an animal now?

God far exceeds Humans

Sounds like God is a Social Darwinist *cough* Nazi *cough*.

[Vazdania]

Neither can Poseidon, but I can still call him an asshole for causing the Earthquake in Japan.

I thought it was Godzilla again? Damnit! I was lied to by Fox News Again!

MSNBC is just as bad

[Seperates]

Which is exactly why I'm deabati- *cough* *cough* excuse me, killing you on the debate floor.

...

You stop making bad arguements, and hell... you might win once and a while.

[Nornalhorst]

What I have found is that atheists like to say that their arguments against God's existence specifically exclude the God of the Bible as a God who could exist. However, in reality, atheists produce generic arguments against a generic God whose characteristics and creation do not match those that are described in the Bible. Atheists may not accept what the Bible says, but they cannot say the God of the Bible cannot logically exist and then ignore what the Bible has to say about the characteristics of God. If the atheist states that the God of the Bible is logically impossible, he cannot pick and choose which arguments from the Bible to accept in order to "prove" his point. Let's formalize the atheist's arguments:

God is all-powerful, loving, and perfect.
A perfect, loving God would create a universe that was perfect (e.g., no evil and suffering).
The universe is not perfect but contains evil and suffering.

Therefore the atheist says, God does not exist.

The Bible does state that God is "all powerful." In the Old Testament, one of God's titles is "El Shadday," which is translated "God Almighty." The Bible also states that God is loving. In fact, the Bible indicates that God is love. The Bible also indicates that God is perfect. So, we can agree that the first statement is a correct interpretation of what the Bible says about the characteristics of God.

The next statement indicates that a perfect, loving God must create a universe that is perfect. This is the statement that is false and invalidates the argument. Nowhere does the Bible state that the universe was created to be perfect. God Himself called it "good" and "very good," but never "perfect." In fact, God Himself stated that part of the original creation was "not good." The Bible states that the current universe is not perfect, but was designed to be temporary and will be replaced with a perfect universe that will be permanent. Science also tells us that the universe was designed to be temporary.

Why would God create an imperfect, temporary universe only to replace it later with a perfect one? Why wouldn't God have created a perfect universe in the first place? This is a good question, but shows a lack of understanding of the biblical reason of why God created the universe. One can find the reason for the creation of the universe in the first few chapters of the Bible. God created humans in order to have a personal relationship with them, which He had with Adam and Eve before they sinned (Genesis 2). Jesus said that the first and foremost commandment was to "Love the Lord your God..." A personal relationship, characterized by the possibility of love, is only possible if created beings are given free will. If God had created the universe with no possibility of evil or sin, then the created beings would have had no free will, and, as such, would essentially be programmed computers. Such beings would be incapable of love, since love involves making a choice - which requires the ability to choose not to love. For example, I can program my computer to say "I love you" when it starts up. Does this mean that the computer really loves me? Of course not! Likewise, God could have programmed humans to say that they loved Him, without the possibility of rejecting Him or performing evil deeds. However, these programmed beings would exhibit about as much true love as my computer - not a very satisfying relationship. Therefore, God created the universe for the express purpose of allowing free will spiritual beings the opportunity to have fellowship with Him (and likewise, reject Him).

God's purposes in creating the universe go beyond merely creating free will beings that love Him in this temporary universe. Jesus explained the ultimate goal of God in the parable of the banquet:

Jesus replied: "A certain man [representing God] was preparing a great banquet and invited many guests. At the time of the banquet he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, 'Come, for everything is now ready.' But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said, 'I have just bought a field, and I must go and see it. Please excuse me.' Another said, 'I have just bought five yoke of oxen, and I'm on my way to try them out. Please excuse me.' Still another said, 'I just got married, so I can't come.' The servant came back and reported this to his master. Then the owner of the house became angry and ordered his servant, 'Go out quickly into the streets and alleys of the town and bring in the poor, the crippled, the blind and the lame.' 'Sir,' the servant said, 'what you ordered has been done, but there is still room.' Then the master told his servant, 'Go out to the roads and country lanes and make them come in, so that my house will be full. (Luke 14:16-23)

This parable tells that God wants not only a relationship with humans in this universe, but a relationship with billions of these creatures in His future, perfect creation. If God's purpose is to have relationships with free will beings in a future creation, then there must be a means by which these beings can make a choice to enter or not enter into this relationship. The means by which we make this choice is exactly the message of the Bible.

[Distruzio]

God is 3 persons, actually.

If you believe in the mind-fuck that is Catholicism.

Orthodox Christianity, actually. As has been defined for more than 1500 years.

[Farnhamia]

No it isn't. The Bible is just a silly book of stories written by men without the miracle of air-conditioning. Only a psycotic father would test the loyalty of his children by torturing them. Basically... if God were a person... we would have been put into foster care by now.

it is a holy Book. Furthermore God is not a person obviously and cannot be compared to one

It's a collection of myths, legends, poetry and historical chronicles written down by the ancient Hebrews over a considerable time going back several thousand years ago. It is in the same category as the Iliad, the Odyssey, the stories out of Mesopotamia, the stories told in Mesoamerica, in Africa, all over the world. It's not that special.

[Genivaria]

I thought it was Godzilla again? Damnit! I was lied to by Fox News Again!

MSNBC is just as bad

Palestinian: The Israelis are just as bad!
Me: The fuck does that have to do with anything?

[Distruzio]

God is 3 persons, actually.

not if you are non trinitarian, God is one, Jesus is one, the Holy Spirit is one.

Those that do not are not Christians.

[Seperates]

If you believe in the mind-fuck that is Catholicism.

Orthodox Christianity, actually. As has been defined for more than 1500 years.

Oh Cosmos... Orthodoxy... an even larger mind-fuck.

[Greater Tezdrian]

God cannot be compared to a person, is my point

Neither can Poseidon, but I can still call him an asshole for causing the Earthquake in Japan.

Neptune didn't cause that. No reason to.

[Seperates]

not if you are non trinitarian, God is one, Jesus is one, the Holy Spirit is one.

Those that do not are not Christians.

Where's Bluth when you need him.... Get over it. You are both silly.

[Vazdania]

Animals have rights too? God far exceeds Humans and does not need Human rights, laughable

Animals have rights too?

So God is an animal now?

God far exceeds Humans

Sounds like God is a Social Darwinist *cough* Nazi *cough*.

no, thier was a suggestion that God does not have rights because he is human, animals have rights and are not human. the point is invalid

Social Darwinism is far from Nazi-ism

Social Darwinism promotes people and corperations to advance themself
whereas Nazi-ism destorys and segregates people directly
Nazi-ism is further based on the"Aryan" race. where as Social Darwinism can be used in any race or culture

[Nornalhorst]

it is a holy Book. Furthermore God is not a person obviously and cannot be compared to one

It's a collection of myths, legends, poetry and historical chronicles written down by the ancient Hebrews over a considerable time going back several thousand years ago. It is in the same category as the Iliad, the Odyssey, the stories out of Mesopotamia, the stories told in Mesoamerica, in Africa, all over the world. It's not that special.

To you it is nothing more than a myth, to the billions of followers of Christianity the Bible is truth.

[Vazdania]

that is for the father to do.

Who are we to judge? that is for the Bible to define for us

No. The bible does not.

it does for me as well as millions of others

[Farnhamia]

So God is an animal now?

Sounds like God is a Social Darwinist *cough* Nazi *cough*.

no, thier was a suggestion that God does not have rights because he is human, animals have rights and are not human. the point is invalid

Social Darwinism is far from Nazi-ism

Social Darwinism promotes people and corperations to advance themself
whereas Nazi-ism destorys and segregates people directly
Nazi-ism is further based on the"Aryan" race. where as Social Darwinism can be used in any race or culture

Social Darwinism is an insult to Darwin's name.

[Kirrig]

Have we considered that God may be all powerful, all knowing and all something else but has a desire to create a good story and is unwilling to just go deus ex machina on his masterpiece.

[Mavorpen]

The Bible states that the current universe is not perfect, but was designed to be temporary and will be replaced with a perfect universe that will be permanent. Science also tells us that the universe was designed to be temporary.

God created humans in order to have a personal relationship with them, which He had with Adam and Eve before they sinned (Genesis 2). Jesus said that the first and foremost commandment was to "Love the Lord your God..." A personal relationship, characterized by the possibility of love, is only possible if created beings are given free will. If God had created the universe with no possibility of evil or sin, then the created beings would have had no free will, and, as such, would essentially be programmed computers. Such beings would be incapable of love, since love involves making a choice - which requires the ability to choose not to love. For example, I can program my computer to say "I love you" when it starts up. Does this mean that the computer really loves me? Of course not! Likewise, God could have programmed humans to say that they loved Him, without the possibility of rejecting Him or performing evil deeds. However, these programmed beings would exhibit about as much true love as my computer - not a very satisfying relationship. Therefore, God created the universe for the express purpose of allowing free will spiritual beings the opportunity to have fellowship with Him (and likewise, reject Him).

Kay some major things wrong here...

1. Science doesn't say that the next universe will be perfect, so not sure why you brought that up.

2. God can't create beings that will never disobey him but that also have free will? That means he has limits, which means he isn't all powerful, which means that he doesn't fit the definition of God.

3. The universe being created solely for the purpose of having a relationship with humans is a major cop-out. He can't create a perfect universe and still do that? Seriously, this post screams excuses.

[Tlaceceyaya]

It's a collection of myths, legends, poetry and historical chronicles written down by the ancient Hebrews over a considerable time going back several thousand years ago. It is in the same category as the Iliad, the Odyssey, the stories out of Mesopotamia, the stories told in Mesoamerica, in Africa, all over the world. It's not that special.

To you it is nothing more than a myth, to the billions of followers of Christianity the Bible is truth.

And yet they don't follow it too well. I don't see many reports of people being stoned in the news. And I've seen followers of Christianity who have divorced and remarried.

[Genivaria]

no, thier was a suggestion that God does not have rights because he is human, animals have rights and are not human. the point is invalid

Social Darwinism is far from Nazi-ism

Social Darwinism promotes people and corperations to advance themself
whereas Nazi-ism destorys and segregates people directly
Nazi-ism is further based on the"Aryan" race. where as Social Darwinism can be used in any race or culture

Social Darwinism is an insult to Darwin's name.

Apologies. I did not come up with the term.