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by Trailers » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:13 am
by Milks Empire » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:14 am
Trailers wrote:The fact that people actually read right-wing drivel and take it as gospel appalls me.
by Saiwania » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:16 am
Milks Empire wrote:Got a credible source for that? Newsmax is not credible.
by Milks Empire » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:17 am
by Saiwania » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:20 am
Milks Empire wrote:Peer-reviewed scholarly articles.
by Milks Empire » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:24 am
by NotnotgnimmiJymmiJ » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:25 am
Really... you don't know what peer review is? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peer_review
You-Gi-Owe wrote:I hate all "spin doctoring". I don't mind honest disagreement and it's possible that people are expressing honest opinions, but spin doctoring is so pervasive, I gotta ask if I suspect it.
by Grave_n_idle » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:26 am
Saiwania wrote:I've heard about how this health care reform will cover illegal immigrants. Yes the bill supposedly states that illegals shouldn't be covered, however there is no enforcement mechanism to weed out citizens from non citizens in any of the bills. The Democrats defeated a Republican amendment that would've done just that. They were afraid of offending some of their advocacy groups. So despite all the claims that this won't apply to illegal immigrants, I believe the language in the bill is intentionally vague so as to indirectly allow some illegals to benefit at the expense of taxpayers.
Source: http://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/obama_ ... 37484.html
Obama Health Plan to cover 12 million illegals.
by Sibirsky » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:32 am
Trailers wrote:As an unemployed, and thanks to that uninsured, American who voted for Obama and still staunchly support him I have to say that the naysayers in my country only manage to demonstrate their selfishness and callus outlook as well as a lack of respect for the less fortunate citizens of their country. And people wonder why the US isn't 1st in the world for "Number 1 place to live" when our homeless population is growing exponentially.
by Saiwania » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:34 am
Milks Empire wrote: (such as the Journal of the American Medical Association), I will not accept it.
by Chocolatemouse » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:35 am
by Milks Empire » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:37 am
Saiwania wrote:The AMA is in the tank for Obama and the Democrats
Saiwania wrote:the AMA only represents about 17% of the doctors in the US
by Grave_n_idle » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:37 am
Sibirsky wrote:Trailers wrote:As an unemployed, and thanks to that uninsured, American who voted for Obama and still staunchly support him I have to say that the naysayers in my country only manage to demonstrate their selfishness and callus outlook as well as a lack of respect for the less fortunate citizens of their country. And people wonder why the US isn't 1st in the world for "Number 1 place to live" when our homeless population is growing exponentially.
80% of new jobs (historically) are created by small businesses. What has Obama done for them? He raised their taxes.
by The_pantless_hero » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:39 am
Sibirsky wrote:Trailers wrote:As an unemployed, and thanks to that uninsured, American who voted for Obama and still staunchly support him I have to say that the naysayers in my country only manage to demonstrate their selfishness and callus outlook as well as a lack of respect for the less fortunate citizens of their country. And people wonder why the US isn't 1st in the world for "Number 1 place to live" when our homeless population is growing exponentially.
80% of new jobs (historically) are created by small businesses. What has Obama done for them? He raised their taxes. He is burdening them with future tax increases. He is proposing legislation that will increase their costs. He, my friend, is trying very hard (unintentionally I hope) to make it very difficult for you to find a job. Unless you decide to work for the government.
Bottle wrote:Equality is a slippery slope, people, and if you give it to the gays you have to give it to the polygamists and if you give it to the polygamists you have to give it to the serial dog molesters and if you give it to the serial dog molesters you have to give it to the machine fetishists and the next thing you know you're being tied up by a trio of polygamist lesbian powerbooks and you can't get out because the safety word is case sensistive!
by Saiwania » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:59 am
by Chocolatemouse » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:05 pm
Saiwania wrote:If I attempt to prove anything my source will either be dismissed or I'll be asked to prove something else. So I give up in trying to back up my legitimate concerns, as I'm not that dedicated to long, drawn out debates that leads to dead ends and circles. All it does is infuriate me. That said, I believe that people should be able to opt out of the individual mandate and that all government employees (including senators and congress) should be subject to the government plan if this passes.
by Saiwania » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:12 pm
by The_pantless_hero » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:12 pm
Bottle wrote:Equality is a slippery slope, people, and if you give it to the gays you have to give it to the polygamists and if you give it to the polygamists you have to give it to the serial dog molesters and if you give it to the serial dog molesters you have to give it to the machine fetishists and the next thing you know you're being tied up by a trio of polygamist lesbian powerbooks and you can't get out because the safety word is case sensistive!
by Chocolatemouse » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:20 pm
Saiwania wrote:I'm not very good at searching for sources that support my claims, google often doesn't provide me what I'm looking for. And if I'm limited to a select few sources I can't find anything to make a rebuttal so that's the primary reason I give up. There are debaters far better than myself that can oppose some parts of the reform plan as written. I'm just going to say that I like the idea of lowering costs but hate the idea of forcing people to have insurance and expanding my government into a nanny state.
by Sumamba Buwhan » Fri Oct 23, 2009 12:39 pm
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by Saiwania » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:13 pm
Chocolatemouse wrote:What is a nanny state? One that makes sure that no one who was fired because their factory was relocated in china, or is too old, or is disabled will die because hospitals ask before if you can pay? An human life is for you to pricey ? Or are you of the lucky one who will never be disabled ? have to risk of accidents and cant be fired? In this case you are an undestroyable CEO with regenerative capacities. In this case congrats you are one of the few Bruce Waynes the earth have, I hope you use your capacities as a night time hero.
by Peisandros » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:16 pm
by Chocolatemouse » Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:25 pm
Saiwania wrote:Chocolatemouse wrote:What is a nanny state? One that makes sure that no one who was fired because their factory was relocated in china, or is too old, or is disabled will die because hospitals ask before if you can pay? An human life is for you to pricey ? Or are you of the lucky one who will never be disabled ? have to risk of accidents and cant be fired? In this case you are an undestroyable CEO with regenerative capacities. In this case congrats you are one of the few Bruce Waynes the earth have, I hope you use your capacities as a night time hero.
If you are quite done with your rhetoric, appeal to emotion, and atrocious grammar that I had to edit. It is false to claim that American hospitals deny people treatment in the event of an emergency, they are barred by law from doing so. US hospitals have to give treatment to a dying person regardless of ability to pay. Even if said person is an illegal immigrant. And as far as I'm concerned, it is not the government's duty to guarantee you a job as it is the responsibility of the individual to obtain employment. I'm young and healthy so I don't need health insurance, I would rather pay the fine than get coverage if it is cheaper to do so. And it appears that will be the case if health reform passes.
Where do you think the entitlement mentality should end? First it will be free health care, then someday the government will want to provide free college education, then it will be free internet with no thought as to how to pay for it all and costs be damned, let's just have another tax hike, allow the national debt to explode, and allow the dollar to become worthless. When the welfare state collapses under it's own weight I will say I told you so. This path is not sustainable in my view. What do you think about social security and medicare being bankrupt? The US has $59 trillion in unfunded liabilities and the world economy only has about $61 trillion dollars. How would that ever be payed off? It isn't obviously, we just continue to add on more debt like there is no tomorrow.
by Bikonria » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:21 pm
by Surote » Fri Oct 23, 2009 3:39 pm
Bikonria wrote:Because of the shortcomings of the privately-funded and deregulated insurence industy, my grandmother died of easily treatable bone cancer. I am in complete and total support of government provided and regulated healthcare.
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