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Irish People!!! Yes or No??? (Treaty of Lisbon)

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Voe Yes or No in the treaty of Lisbon

Yes
33
39%
No
52
61%
 
Total votes : 85
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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
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Postby Ifreann » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:40 am

Sunseeker wrote:Oh right... Like I have a chance to do so?

You do. You simply are not doing so. If you live in Europe then I'll wager that you live in a democratic state. Exercise your rights and work to reform your system. Ireland does not exist to shoot down treaties you don't like.
He/Him
We are born of the salt, we are children of the sea
We don't bend our knee to no king or country
So we hoist the Jolly Roger, the colours of the free
And if we hit the gallows that's the way that it must be
Saoirse don Phalaistín
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Cabra West
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Postby Cabra West » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:43 am

Barrettstia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Ireland is legally required to hold a referendum. I'm not totally informed as to why, but I think the gist of it is that our constitution doesn't give the government power to sign treaties that would effect our foreign policies or something like that, so the constitution has to be amended to allow the treaty to be ratified, and this can only be done by referendum.

I know they're holding it because they have to. My point is that the number of Irish people who are able to make an informed decision on the Lisbon treaty is going to be incredibly small.


Nonexistent, from what I gather from chats at work.
We've got one no-voter in the office, and her reason is she wants to "stick it to the government and Brian Cowen". No amount of facts presented to her changed that... :roll:

It infuriated me about the last referendum, too. When you asked people why they voted no, many would answer "cause I don't know what the treaty says". Made me want to go out and kick them... if you vote, it's UP TO YOU TO INFORM YOURSELF what you're voting on. >:(
"I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs. A very endearing sight, and as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged on to a half-submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature’s wonders: mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that’s when I first learned about evil. It is built in to the very nature of the universe. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior."

Lord Vetinari
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Barrettstia
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Founded: Jun 02, 2009
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Postby Barrettstia » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:43 am

Sunseeker wrote:Democracy doesn't exist when you can only choose from two people (others are automatically eliminated because they can't cope with financial strenght of the previously mentioned) and that I mean for the last 20 years. Since we gained independance there's always the same faces. You can only choose the lesser evil. So how far are we from democracy?

You could say exactly the same thing about the US, supposedly the greatest democracy in the world. Wherever a democratic system fails to work, it is the fault of those who elected the system. Don't complain when you don't like the system you elected. If there's no option you like then you have the responsibility to either create that option or the stop complaining about the lack of change when you weren't willing to make that change yourself.
Last edited by Barrettstia on Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Barrettstia
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Postby Barrettstia » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:44 am

Cabra West wrote:
Barrettstia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Ireland is legally required to hold a referendum. I'm not totally informed as to why, but I think the gist of it is that our constitution doesn't give the government power to sign treaties that would effect our foreign policies or something like that, so the constitution has to be amended to allow the treaty to be ratified, and this can only be done by referendum.

I know they're holding it because they have to. My point is that the number of Irish people who are able to make an informed decision on the Lisbon treaty is going to be incredibly small.


Nonexistent, from what I gather from chats at work.
We've got one no-voter in the office, and her reason is she wants to "stick it to the government and Brian Cowen". No amount of facts presented to her changed that... :roll:

It infuriated me about the last referendum, too. When you asked people why they voted no, many would answer "cause I don't know what the treaty says". Made me want to go out and kick them... if you vote, it's UP TO YOU TO INFORM YOURSELF what you're voting on. >:(

See, before I said "incredibly small" I was actually going to write "possible to count on one hand" but thought some people would get annoyed. :P
Welfare; Freedom; Democracy!
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DEFCON: [1] 2 3 4 5
The Blaatschapen wrote:Fear the all knowing Barretstia for he is armed with information and knowledge *nods*
The Ularn wrote:
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Sunseeker
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Founded: Jun 26, 2009
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Postby Sunseeker » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:46 am

Democracy is a bluff...
The winner of election will ALWAYS be a person with biggest financial backing. I'm sure there are better leaders for all the EU countries but they can't climb the ladder unless they join a big and well known party and decide to play by their rules. That is govern the country the way they want it. Otherwise.. No marketing campaign for you I'd say.

But we're getting oftopic. You're right... Ireland you have a chance to at least decide. Hope your vote is a smart one.
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Cabra West
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Founded: Jan 15, 2005
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Postby Cabra West » Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:47 am

Barrettstia wrote:See, before I said "incredibly small" I was actually going to write "possible to count on one hand" but thought some people would get annoyed. :P


Hey, I don't even know about everything it covers. But I did a bit of reading up, and I like most things I read so far.
Unfortunately, I haven't yet bought Irish citizenship, so I haven't a vote :(
"I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs. A very endearing sight, and as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged on to a half-submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature’s wonders: mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that’s when I first learned about evil. It is built in to the very nature of the universe. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior."

Lord Vetinari
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Risottia
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Founded: Sep 05, 2006
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Postby Risottia » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:23 am

Cabra West wrote:Unfortunately, I haven't yet bought Irish citizenship, so I haven't a vote :(



:blink: Is Irish citizenship for sale? I knew that the crisis was hitting hard on the Celtic Tiger, but this is quite unexpected.
nangiqatigillugu kalaałłiit nunaanni
je soutiens le canada / i stand with canada
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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Ifreann » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:26 am

Risottia wrote:
Cabra West wrote:Unfortunately, I haven't yet bought Irish citizenship, so I haven't a vote :(



:blink: Is Irish citizenship for sale? I knew that the crisis was hitting hard on the Celtic Tiger, but this is quite unexpected.

We've cornered the niche on exploiting Irish-Americans.
He/Him
We are born of the salt, we are children of the sea
We don't bend our knee to no king or country
So we hoist the Jolly Roger, the colours of the free
And if we hit the gallows that's the way that it must be
Saoirse don Phalaistín
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Risottia
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Posts: 56475
Founded: Sep 05, 2006
New York Times Democracy

Postby Risottia » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:26 am

Hairless Kitten II wrote:
Risottia wrote:
Industrial Enigmatics wrote:But you can't deny that Ireland and Britain are "different" from our E.U neighbours.

Just because you drive on the wrong side of the street. ;) Really, Ireland and UK are as European just as France and Spain are (talking about lost colonial empires...).


Don't forget to mention their terrible food ;)


I sorta like the steak-and-kidney thingie, and english cakes aren't that bad at all.
Though, of course, nothing can beat spaghetti. ;)
nangiqatigillugu kalaałłiit nunaanni
je soutiens le canada / i stand with canada
estoy con panamá
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Cabra West
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Posts: 4984
Founded: Jan 15, 2005
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Postby Cabra West » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:27 am

Risottia wrote:
Cabra West wrote:Unfortunately, I haven't yet bought Irish citizenship, so I haven't a vote :(



:blink: Is Irish citizenship for sale? I knew that the crisis was hitting hard on the Celtic Tiger, but this is quite unexpected.


Well, there are some rules that you have to have stayed in the country for at least 5 years out of the last 9 and getting a statement of the gardai that you're a good boy/girl.... but mostly you get the citizenship by forking out a little over 1000 Euros altogether. The way I see it, you're buying it. ;)
"I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs. A very endearing sight, and as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged on to a half-submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature’s wonders: mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that’s when I first learned about evil. It is built in to the very nature of the universe. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior."

Lord Vetinari
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Ifreann
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Posts: 177111
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Ifreann » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:28 am

Cabra West wrote:
Risottia wrote:
Cabra West wrote:Unfortunately, I haven't yet bought Irish citizenship, so I haven't a vote :(



:blink: Is Irish citizenship for sale? I knew that the crisis was hitting hard on the Celtic Tiger, but this is quite unexpected.


Well, there are some rules that you have to have stayed in the country for at least 5 years out of the last 9 and getting a statement of the gardai that you're a good boy/girl.... but mostly you get the citizenship by forking out a little over 1000 Euros altogether. The way I see it, you're buying it. ;)

That garda statement will cost you too ;)
He/Him
We are born of the salt, we are children of the sea
We don't bend our knee to no king or country
So we hoist the Jolly Roger, the colours of the free
And if we hit the gallows that's the way that it must be
Saoirse don Phalaistín
Top
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Risottia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 56475
Founded: Sep 05, 2006
New York Times Democracy

Postby Risottia » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:32 am

Cabra West wrote:
Risottia wrote:
Cabra West wrote:Unfortunately, I haven't yet bought Irish citizenship, so I haven't a vote :(



:blink: Is Irish citizenship for sale? I knew that the crisis was hitting hard on the Celtic Tiger, but this is quite unexpected.


Well, there are some rules that you have to have stayed in the country for at least 5 years out of the last 9 and getting a statement of the gardai that you're a good boy/girl.... but mostly you get the citizenship by forking out a little over 1000 Euros altogether. The way I see it, you're buying it. ;)


Quite cheap. Do I have to renounce my Italian citizenship, or can I also keep it? I would love to have two passports.
nangiqatigillugu kalaałłiit nunaanni
je soutiens le canada / i stand with canada
estoy con panamá
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Cabra West
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Posts: 4984
Founded: Jan 15, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Cabra West » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:32 am

Ifreann wrote:
Cabra West wrote:
Risottia wrote:
Cabra West wrote:Unfortunately, I haven't yet bought Irish citizenship, so I haven't a vote :(



:blink: Is Irish citizenship for sale? I knew that the crisis was hitting hard on the Celtic Tiger, but this is quite unexpected.


Well, there are some rules that you have to have stayed in the country for at least 5 years out of the last 9 and getting a statement of the gardai that you're a good boy/girl.... but mostly you get the citizenship by forking out a little over 1000 Euros altogether. The way I see it, you're buying it. ;)

That garda statement will cost you too ;)


And you need to pay legal fees... so all in all, nobody will give a clear figure. But the application fee is 950 Euros, so you can add on to that.
"I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs. A very endearing sight, and as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged on to a half-submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature’s wonders: mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that’s when I first learned about evil. It is built in to the very nature of the universe. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior."

Lord Vetinari
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Cabra West
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Posts: 4984
Founded: Jan 15, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Cabra West » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:33 am

Risottia wrote:Quite cheap. Do I have to renounce my Italian citizenship, or can I also keep it? I would love to have two passports.


I think that might be up to the Italian side. I think Ireland allows dual citizenship (could be wrong on that, though!), but when I take the citizenship here, I will automatically lose my German citizenship.
"I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs. A very endearing sight, and as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged on to a half-submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature’s wonders: mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that’s when I first learned about evil. It is built in to the very nature of the universe. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior."

Lord Vetinari
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Sidebody
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Founded: Jul 15, 2009
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Postby Sidebody » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:34 am

Cabra West wrote:
Risottia wrote:Quite cheap. Do I have to renounce my Italian citizenship, or can I also keep it? I would love to have two passports.


I think that might be up to the Italian side. I think Ireland allows dual citizenship (could be wrong on that, though!), but when I take the citizenship here, I will automatically lose my German citizenship.


I have dual citizenship (UK and Ireland) so it is allowed.
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Cabra West
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Founded: Jan 15, 2005
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Postby Cabra West » Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:36 am

Sidebody wrote:
Cabra West wrote:
Risottia wrote:Quite cheap. Do I have to renounce my Italian citizenship, or can I also keep it? I would love to have two passports.


I think that might be up to the Italian side. I think Ireland allows dual citizenship (could be wrong on that, though!), but when I take the citizenship here, I will automatically lose my German citizenship.


I have dual citizenship (UK and Ireland) so it is allowed.


Ah, thanks!
I thought I remembered it was possible, but I couldn't be arsed to go digging for the information on it :)
"I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs. A very endearing sight, and as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged on to a half-submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature’s wonders: mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that’s when I first learned about evil. It is built in to the very nature of the universe. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior."

Lord Vetinari
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Imperialist Reich
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Postby Imperialist Reich » Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:28 am

Can we return to the subject please!
Currently, the votes are like the last Lisbon Treaty.
"Empires of the world have always risen and fallen through war and conquest, it seems that the Empire has risen without war but fall with conquest" - Emperor Sareth Aringarosa
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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Ifreann » Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:29 am

Imperialist Reich wrote:Can we return to the subject please!
Currently, the votes are like the last Lisbon Treaty.

Which hardly suggests the No side will win in the actual vote. I understand the last polls before today actually put the Yes side at 55%. Not to mention that this time the Yes side actually has a campaign. Useful thing for winning votes, that.
Last edited by Ifreann on Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
He/Him
We are born of the salt, we are children of the sea
We don't bend our knee to no king or country
So we hoist the Jolly Roger, the colours of the free
And if we hit the gallows that's the way that it must be
Saoirse don Phalaistín
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Cabra West
Senator
 
Posts: 4984
Founded: Jan 15, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Cabra West » Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:30 am

Imperialist Reich wrote:Can we return to the subject please!
Currently, the votes are like the last Lisbon Treaty.


Really? How do you know? Currently, all RTE is reporting about is the turnout. The votes will only be counted tomorrow.
"I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs. A very endearing sight, and as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged on to a half-submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature’s wonders: mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that’s when I first learned about evil. It is built in to the very nature of the universe. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior."

Lord Vetinari
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User avatar
Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 177111
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Ifreann » Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:33 am

Cabra West wrote:
Imperialist Reich wrote:Can we return to the subject please!
Currently, the votes are like the last Lisbon Treaty.


Really? How do you know? Currently, all RTE is reporting about is the turnout. The votes will only be counted tomorrow.

I assumed he meant the votes in his poll.
He/Him
We are born of the salt, we are children of the sea
We don't bend our knee to no king or country
So we hoist the Jolly Roger, the colours of the free
And if we hit the gallows that's the way that it must be
Saoirse don Phalaistín
Top
User avatar
Cabra West
Senator
 
Posts: 4984
Founded: Jan 15, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby Cabra West » Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:38 am

Ifreann wrote:
Cabra West wrote:
Imperialist Reich wrote:Can we return to the subject please!
Currently, the votes are like the last Lisbon Treaty.


Really? How do you know? Currently, all RTE is reporting about is the turnout. The votes will only be counted tomorrow.

I assumed he meant the votes in his poll.


26 people voted in that... I'm not sure there are 26 Irish people on this forum. I think some of our UK cousins probably got carried away there. ;)
"I was walking along the bank of a stream when I saw a mother otter with her cubs. A very endearing sight, and as I watched, the mother otter dived into the water and came up with a plump salmon, which she subdued and dragged on to a half-submerged log. As she ate it, while of course it was still alive, the body split and I remember to this day the sweet pinkness of its roes as they spilled out, much to the delight of the baby otters who scrambled over themselves to feed on the delicacy. One of nature’s wonders: mother and children dining upon mother and children. And that’s when I first learned about evil. It is built in to the very nature of the universe. If there is any kind of supreme being, I told myself, it is up to all of us to become his moral superior."

Lord Vetinari
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Barrettstia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 814
Founded: Jun 02, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Barrettstia » Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:40 am

Cabra West wrote:
Ifreann wrote:
Cabra West wrote:
Imperialist Reich wrote:Can we return to the subject please!
Currently, the votes are like the last Lisbon Treaty.


Really? How do you know? Currently, all RTE is reporting about is the turnout. The votes will only be counted tomorrow.

I assumed he meant the votes in his poll.


26 people voted in that... I'm not sure there are 26 Irish people on this forum. I think some of our UK cousins probably got carried away there. ;)

One of the yes votes is mine. I'm Scottish.
Welfare; Freedom; Democracy!
Info: Factbook | Map | Salamander Arms & Munitions
Alliances: ODECON | Escapikickass
DEFCON: [1] 2 3 4 5
The Blaatschapen wrote:Fear the all knowing Barretstia for he is armed with information and knowledge *nods*
The Ularn wrote:
Zinaire wrote:I am a douchebag, but that doesn't make me any less right.
[violet] wrote:Maybe we could power our new search engine from the sexual tension between you two.
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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 177111
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Ifreann » Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:41 am

Cabra West wrote:
Ifreann wrote:
Cabra West wrote:
Imperialist Reich wrote:Can we return to the subject please!
Currently, the votes are like the last Lisbon Treaty.


Really? How do you know? Currently, all RTE is reporting about is the turnout. The votes will only be counted tomorrow.

I assumed he meant the votes in his poll.


26 people voted in that... I'm not sure there are 26 Irish people on this forum. I think some of our UK cousins probably got carried away there. ;)

Well there's me. And you live here, but can't vote. And....em.....I'm sure there are others. Probably.


Whatever, until someone else shows up I'm the only one with a vote and I voted Yes. Lets get ratifying.
He/Him
We are born of the salt, we are children of the sea
We don't bend our knee to no king or country
So we hoist the Jolly Roger, the colours of the free
And if we hit the gallows that's the way that it must be
Saoirse don Phalaistín
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Barrettstia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 814
Founded: Jun 02, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Barrettstia » Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:46 am

Anyone else think there might be scope for a Scotsman, an Englishman and an Irishman... joke out of all this? The Englishman steals the Scotsman's vote and the Irishman can't make his bloody mind up.

Needs work, but I'm sure there's something funny in there...
Welfare; Freedom; Democracy!
Info: Factbook | Map | Salamander Arms & Munitions
Alliances: ODECON | Escapikickass
DEFCON: [1] 2 3 4 5
The Blaatschapen wrote:Fear the all knowing Barretstia for he is armed with information and knowledge *nods*
The Ularn wrote:
Zinaire wrote:I am a douchebag, but that doesn't make me any less right.
[violet] wrote:Maybe we could power our new search engine from the sexual tension between you two.
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Imperialist Reich
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Founded: Mar 11, 2009
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Postby Imperialist Reich » Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:50 am

What I meant was that the last treaty of lisbon had just about the same percentage!
"Empires of the world have always risen and fallen through war and conquest, it seems that the Empire has risen without war but fall with conquest" - Emperor Sareth Aringarosa
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