To what extent does your government align with this theory?

[Saurisisia]

We fully and wholeheartedly agree with this, for Individualism is one of the main founding principles of Saurisia.

What a brilliant lie.

Not really a lie.

[Distruzio]

That may be one of the few quotes that the King might agree with. He doesn't normally agree with proto-collectivists who emphasize the sovereignty of the individual only when it suits their purposes for the discussion at hand.

[Cedarwood River]

What a brilliant lie.

Not really a lie.

And in answer to my question?

[Saurisisia]

Not really a lie.

And in answer to my question?

Well, it sort of applies to Humans.

[Cedarwood River]

And in answer to my question?

Well, it sort of applies to Humans.

Sort of.
Brilliant.

[TurtleShroom]

"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilised community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant. He cannot rightfully be compelled to do or forbear because it will be better for him to do so, because it will make him happier, because, in the opinion of others, to do so would be wise, or even right... The only part of the conduct of anyone, for which he is amenable to society, is that which concerns others. In the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute. Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign."

That's an interesting thought. It seems to be the baseline of all libertarian dicta. Well, here we go!

Individualism is detrimental to the Community. While each and every comrade-citizen matters and all their ideals matter, they must first work towards the forwarding of the commune society, and of their fellows fellow creatures before they can be individual.

^ Edited to match TurtleShroom. (Eerie that we agree with the Marxists.)

TurtleShroom's balance of individualism and "the greater good" is a teetering scale. TurtleShroom was founded in the 1790s by the religious elders of human immigrants that had successfully converted almost every last one of the native sentient turtles and mushrooms to Christianity. The concept of a nation-state and national sovereignty, along with the idea of a hiearchial government, was entirely new to the turtles and mushrooms, who lived by Nature's Law, a survival of the fittest for the turtles and collectivism by the mushrooms.

Individualism has recently extended to hairstyles- but not color -and, to a lesser extent, clothes. Human women can wear pants or skirts without being punished or discriminated for it, but it's considered immodest if either of those are shorter than the woman's arms by the side. In the same way, men are forbidden from dressing "in a flamboyant manner".
It's called "modest dress", and though it IS still a prosecutable offense, few ever get booked for it these days. Nah, the parents take care of it!

Men have recently begun to wear long hair and women have started exceedingly short hair. Society eventually accepted this, provided that eye cact by moving the hair is established.
(It's second nature for any long-haired TurtleShroomian male human to lift their hair out of their eyes when they speak. Manners run very deep.)

---

Individualism is encouraged when it comes to faith. A tenent in TurtleShroom- one mentioned by the nation's founding fathers -is that people are urged to make themselves right with God (or the god/gods of their choosing, or no god) and follow that path no matter what anyone else thinks. Although the intention of this was to eliminate sectarian Christian denominational warfare (e.g. Catholics versus Protestants), it eventually became the mantra for religious freedom in TurtleShroom. (Of course, if you practice witchcraft, worship Satan, or bow to flying spaghetti, you're screwed.)

Religious freedom is one of the fundamental rights outright guarenteed in the TurtleShroom Constitution. Not only that, it's one of the reasons TurtleShroom exists. There aren't too many other rights, though.

---

TurtleShroom's social conservatism has the unintended consequence of conformity and a limitation to "expressing yourself".

• Schools have been known for administrating corporal punishment, detention, and even suspension to kids wearing shirts that curse or read something like "QUESTION AUTHORITY" or a saccreligious message.
• A creature that doesn't use manners (omitting "ma'am", "sir", or a title) tends to be ignored or repremended.
• Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
• Transvestism is still a crime.
• Until 2010, you needed a license to be Emo/Emoist or Goth/Gothic.
• Manners are shackling and rigid. You call your authorities "sir" or "ma'am", address them but full title, and usually, bow to them and give them a handshake. Not doing this is a taboo, and very insulting.
• "Youth empowerment" is seen as a work of the Devil.
• So are "youth rights".
• In human society, the parent's authority is seen as "supreme, holy, and unquestionable". The government is forbidden from interering with the raising of a child unless the parent crosses the line and harms or neglects their child. For turtles, that only extends to the mother, since by nature, male turtles have little to do with raising a child.
• It's impossible to tell the difference between custody of children and slavery/ownership. Children aren't just subordinate to their parents, they are the property of their parents until they become adults. The government takes the Bible very seriously.

Citizens feel an obligation to society to give to charity, since the government has low welfare programs. Those that don't are condemned as greedy and unloving.
Those who can work but don't are seen as a disgrace to their country, and every adult creature is expected, even demanded, to work for a living. Getting a job and earning a living is considered a civic duty. There are no labor action laws, no minimum wage, and employes have free reign to exploit set terms for their workers. The attitude for that is "if you don't want the job, leave and read the contract next time".



IN SUMMARY, TurtleShroomers are expected to do their duty to Family, to Economy, to Society, to Country, and to the Faith of their Choosing (or lack therefof) before they tend to themselves. It's a balancing act that is criticized as a collectivist mindset.

[Reformed Yethtu]

As stated in our motto "The Government's Job is to Help", Reformed Yethtu believes that the government needs to step in to protect others from one person's stupidity, even if the effects aren't painfully obvious. For instance, one might say under this theory that the government should not regulate businesses, as capitalists are only risking their own money. However, they are also placing in danger the environment that is shared by all people, the workers who, no matter how well they do their job, lose it if the management makes a stupid decision, and all the minor shareholders with no appreciable say, but who's retirement is running on the companies they've invested in not collapsing. As such, to protect all these people, the government limits what you are allowed to do with your own money and waste products. Same thing goes for safety; we make it required to wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle not because we're trying to prevent you from smashing your own skull (though we'd prefer if you don't) But because shutting down the road to whip your brains off the tar delays travel, grosses people out, and makes us pay somebody to do it. As such, we align with the letter of this statement, especially involving social freedoms, but put our own spirit on it.

[Industrial Republics]

Our stance on this theory:

Without the individual there is community; Without the community there is no populace; Without the populace there is no government. Freedom is the core principal of everything and anything done within our borders, and is reflected by our form of direct democracy.

[Saurisisia]

Well, it sort of applies to Humans.

Sort of.
Brilliant.

Um, okay.

[New Federation China]

Individualism is detrimental to the Community. While each and every comrade-citizen matters and all their ideals matter, they must first work towards the forwarding of the commune society, and of their fellows fellow creatures before they can be individual.

^ Edited to match TurtleShroom. (Eerie that we agree with the Marxists.)

Marxist? Never! Do not compare us to the Western Barbarians of the Soviet Union!

The Glorious People's Republic is Laoist; not Marxist-Leninist.

[Mount Shavano]

The Front Range legal code tends towards individualism, but you certainly won't find Mill quoted in the Constitution.

[The Kangaroo Republic]

What a brilliant lie.

Not really a lie.

Not a lie you say? Such wonderful words coming from a government that exiles mammalian homosexuals and tries to 'cure' reptilian homosexuals through 'rehabilitation' AKA brainwashing.

[Saurisisia]

Not really a lie.

Not a lie you say? Such wonderful words coming from a government that exiles mammalian homosexuals and tries to 'cure' reptilian homosexuals through 'rehabilitation' AKA brainwashing.

Well, you could say it's more of a half-lie.

[Esparata]

Whilst the individual freedom of the individual citizen is tolerated to some extent it is subservient to the will of the State and People of Esparata as a whole.

[Zeiffelheim]

"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilised community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant. He cannot rightfully be compelled to do or forbear because it will be better for him to do so, because it will make him happier, because, in the opinion of others, to do so would be wise, or even right... The only part of the conduct of anyone, for which he is amenable to society, is that which concerns others. In the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute. Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign."

~ John Stuart Mill

The Republic agrees wholeheartedly, this is in fact the very basis of the Republic itself.

[Cedarwood River]

Not a lie you say? Such wonderful words coming from a government that exiles mammalian homosexuals and tries to 'cure' reptilian homosexuals through 'rehabilitation' AKA brainwashing.

Well, you could say it's more of a half-lie.

I fail to understand where the 50% off comes from.

[Lazssia]

Yes, we Lazssians all have a strong sense of individualism, while also maintaining a feeling of social/cultural unity and kinship.

[Democratic Koyro]

Individualism is detrimental to the Community. Individual Comrades are an irrelevence, their opinions are irrelevent, only the will of the collective matters which is expressed through the Koy People's Socialist Revolutionary Party. To conform to party lines is required. There is no room for individualist thought or action in the Koy People's Democratic Republic, only the collective matters. Thus, all actions must be for the benefit of the collective Koy People. Therefore we reject the theory wholeheartdly