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To what extent does your government align with this theory?

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Saurisisia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30207
Founded: Jan 28, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Saurisisia » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:02 pm

The Kangaroo Republic wrote:
Saurisisia wrote:We fully and wholeheartedly agree with this, for Individualism is one of the main founding principles of Saurisia.

What a brilliant lie.


Not really a lie.
Autistic, Christian, Capitalist, Libertarian
Don't wish to display my sexuality for all to see because I don't care about what sexuality someone is
Make Tea, Not Love
Proud Yankee Monarchist
DA Account
https://dragcave.net/user/Bellumsaur13
Things in our country run in spite of government, not by aid of it. - Will Rogers
This nation reflects my RL beliefs and values (for the most part, anyway)
P/MT: The United Provinces of Saurisia
FT: The Federal Systems Republic of Saurisia
MT FT Embassy
ANTHRO AND A MEMBER OF THE MULTI-SPECIES UNION!

My nation's dominated by talking Dinosaurs, there is no realism (because ultra-realism is SO boring)
Dinosaurs rule!
I am Scaly and I am proud!

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Distruzio
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 24599
Founded: Feb 28, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Distruzio » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:05 pm

That may be one of the few quotes that the King might agree with. He doesn't normally agree with proto-collectivists who emphasize the sovereignty of the individual only when it suits their purposes for the discussion at hand.
Democracy is neither of the people nor by the people. Monarchy, however, is for the people.

Not post-modern, archeomodern

Eastern Orthodox Christian
Christ is King
Glorify Him

capitalism is not natural
secularism is not neutral
liberalism is not tolerant

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Cedarwood River
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 446
Founded: Dec 14, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Cedarwood River » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:16 pm

Saurisisia wrote:
The Kangaroo Republic wrote:What a brilliant lie.


Not really a lie.

And in answer to my question?
Seriously,
This post sponsored by Redcedar Creek Malt Whiskey

Alex MacFarlane
Presiding Officer, Parliament of Cedarwood River
"Hey, I am looking for freedom, in the wild eyes of the dancing girls
Hey, I am looking for freedom, in the open arms of America"

~ Noah Gundersen, Fire

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Saurisisia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30207
Founded: Jan 28, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Saurisisia » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:18 pm

Cedarwood River wrote:
Saurisisia wrote:
Not really a lie.

And in answer to my question?

Well, it sort of applies to Humans.
Autistic, Christian, Capitalist, Libertarian
Don't wish to display my sexuality for all to see because I don't care about what sexuality someone is
Make Tea, Not Love
Proud Yankee Monarchist
DA Account
https://dragcave.net/user/Bellumsaur13
Things in our country run in spite of government, not by aid of it. - Will Rogers
This nation reflects my RL beliefs and values (for the most part, anyway)
P/MT: The United Provinces of Saurisia
FT: The Federal Systems Republic of Saurisia
MT FT Embassy
ANTHRO AND A MEMBER OF THE MULTI-SPECIES UNION!

My nation's dominated by talking Dinosaurs, there is no realism (because ultra-realism is SO boring)
Dinosaurs rule!
I am Scaly and I am proud!

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Cedarwood River
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 446
Founded: Dec 14, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Cedarwood River » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:19 pm

Saurisisia wrote:
Cedarwood River wrote:And in answer to my question?

Well, it sort of applies to Humans.

Sort of.
Brilliant.
Seriously,
This post sponsored by Redcedar Creek Malt Whiskey

Alex MacFarlane
Presiding Officer, Parliament of Cedarwood River
"Hey, I am looking for freedom, in the wild eyes of the dancing girls
Hey, I am looking for freedom, in the open arms of America"

~ Noah Gundersen, Fire

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TurtleShroom
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5942
Founded: Oct 13, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby TurtleShroom » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:19 pm

John Stuart Mill wrote:
"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilised community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant. He cannot rightfully be compelled to do or forbear because it will be better for him to do so, because it will make him happier, because, in the opinion of others, to do so would be wise, or even right... The only part of the conduct of anyone, for which he is amenable to society, is that which concerns others. In the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute. Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign."


That's an interesting thought. It seems to be the baseline of all libertarian dicta. Well, here we go!


New Federation China wrote:Individualism is detrimental to the Community. While each and every comrade-citizen matters and all their ideals matter, they must first work towards the forwarding of the commune society, and of their fellows fellow creatures before they can be individual.

^ Edited to match TurtleShroom. (Eerie that we agree with the Marxists.)


TurtleShroom's balance of individualism and "the greater good" is a teetering scale. TurtleShroom was founded in the 1790s by the religious elders of human immigrants that had successfully converted almost every last one of the native sentient turtles and mushrooms to Christianity. The concept of a nation-state and national sovereignty, along with the idea of a hiearchial government, was entirely new to the turtles and mushrooms, who lived by Nature's Law, a survival of the fittest for the turtles and collectivism by the mushrooms.

Individualism has recently extended to hairstyles- but not color -and, to a lesser extent, clothes. Human women can wear pants or skirts without being punished or discriminated for it, but it's considered immodest if either of those are shorter than the woman's arms by the side. In the same way, men are forbidden from dressing "in a flamboyant manner".
It's called "modest dress", and though it IS still a prosecutable offense, few ever get booked for it these days. Nah, the parents take care of it!

Men have recently begun to wear long hair and women have started exceedingly short hair. Society eventually accepted this, provided that eye cact by moving the hair is established.
(It's second nature for any long-haired TurtleShroomian male human to lift their hair out of their eyes when they speak. Manners run very deep.)




Individualism is encouraged when it comes to faith. A tenent in TurtleShroom- one mentioned by the nation's founding fathers -is that people are urged to make themselves right with God (or the god/gods of their choosing, or no god) and follow that path no matter what anyone else thinks. Although the intention of this was to eliminate sectarian Christian denominational warfare (e.g. Catholics versus Protestants), it eventually became the mantra for religious freedom in TurtleShroom. (Of course, if you practice witchcraft, worship Satan, or bow to flying spaghetti, you're screwed.)

Religious freedom is one of the fundamental rights outright guarenteed in the TurtleShroom Constitution. Not only that, it's one of the reasons TurtleShroom exists. There aren't too many other rights, though.




TurtleShroom's social conservatism has the unintended consequence of conformity and a limitation to "expressing yourself".
  • Schools have been known for administrating corporal punishment, detention, and even suspension to kids wearing shirts that curse or read something like "QUESTION AUTHORITY" or a saccreligious message.
  • A creature that doesn't use manners (omitting "ma'am", "sir", or a title) tends to be ignored or repremended.
  • Don't Ask, Don't Tell.
  • Transvestism is still a crime.
  • Until 2010, you needed a license to be Emo/Emoist or Goth/Gothic.
  • Manners are shackling and rigid. You call your authorities "sir" or "ma'am", address them but full title, and usually, bow to them and give them a handshake. Not doing this is a taboo, and very insulting.
  • "Youth empowerment" is seen as a work of the Devil.
  • So are "youth rights".
  • In human society, the parent's authority is seen as "supreme, holy, and unquestionable". The government is forbidden from interering with the raising of a child unless the parent crosses the line and harms or neglects their child. For turtles, that only extends to the mother, since by nature, male turtles have little to do with raising a child.
  • It's impossible to tell the difference between custody of children and slavery/ownership. Children aren't just subordinate to their parents, they are the property of their parents until they become adults. The government takes the Bible very seriously.


Citizens feel an obligation to society to give to charity, since the government has low welfare programs. Those that don't are condemned as greedy and unloving.
Those who can work but don't are seen as a disgrace to their country, and every adult creature is expected, even demanded, to work for a living. Getting a job and earning a living is considered a civic duty. There are no labor action laws, no minimum wage, and employes have free reign to exploit set terms for their workers. The attitude for that is "if you don't want the job, leave and read the contract next time".



IN SUMMARY, TurtleShroomers are expected to do their duty to Family, to Economy, to Society, to Country, and to the Faith of their Choosing (or lack therefof) before they tend to themselves. It's a balancing act that is criticized as a collectivist mindset.
Last edited by TurtleShroom on Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
THE FUTURE
IS IN THE
PAST!!

Jesus Loves You and Died for You!!
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NationStates' only surviving States' Rights Democrat/Dixiecrat (minus the rascism)!


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Reformed Yethtu
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 16
Founded: Aug 20, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Reformed Yethtu » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:25 pm

As stated in our motto "The Government's Job is to Help", Reformed Yethtu believes that the government needs to step in to protect others from one person's stupidity, even if the effects aren't painfully obvious. For instance, one might say under this theory that the government should not regulate businesses, as capitalists are only risking their own money. However, they are also placing in danger the environment that is shared by all people, the workers who, no matter how well they do their job, lose it if the management makes a stupid decision, and all the minor shareholders with no appreciable say, but who's retirement is running on the companies they've invested in not collapsing. As such, to protect all these people, the government limits what you are allowed to do with your own money and waste products. Same thing goes for safety; we make it required to wear a helmet when riding a motorcycle not because we're trying to prevent you from smashing your own skull (though we'd prefer if you don't) But because shutting down the road to whip your brains off the tar delays travel, grosses people out, and makes us pay somebody to do it. As such, we align with the letter of this statement, especially involving social freedoms, but put our own spirit on it.
The Backward thinking of social conservatism; "Don't tread on me, but let me walk all over you." If you don't respect my way of thinking, give me one good reason I should respect yours.
-When I give food to the poor, you call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, you call me a Communist.-

Pro- Regulated Business, Large Government, Minority Rights, Father's/Men's Rights, Secularism, United States, Ottomanism (A moderate, religiously tolerant Middle East under one rule), United Nations/Stronger World Government

Agenst- "Too Big to Fail" Corporations, Violence Against Women Act, Tea Party, Racist and Sexist government policies (Agenst both minorities and majorities), religion in politics, Anarchy

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Industrial Republics
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1014
Founded: Jun 15, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Industrial Republics » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:28 pm

Our stance on this theory:

Without the individual there is community; Without the community there is no populace; Without the populace there is no government. Freedom is the core principal of everything and anything done within our borders, and is reflected by our form of direct democracy.

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Saurisisia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30207
Founded: Jan 28, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Saurisisia » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:32 pm

Cedarwood River wrote:
Saurisisia wrote:Well, it sort of applies to Humans.

Sort of.
Brilliant.

Um, okay.
Autistic, Christian, Capitalist, Libertarian
Don't wish to display my sexuality for all to see because I don't care about what sexuality someone is
Make Tea, Not Love
Proud Yankee Monarchist
DA Account
https://dragcave.net/user/Bellumsaur13
Things in our country run in spite of government, not by aid of it. - Will Rogers
This nation reflects my RL beliefs and values (for the most part, anyway)
P/MT: The United Provinces of Saurisia
FT: The Federal Systems Republic of Saurisia
MT FT Embassy
ANTHRO AND A MEMBER OF THE MULTI-SPECIES UNION!

My nation's dominated by talking Dinosaurs, there is no realism (because ultra-realism is SO boring)
Dinosaurs rule!
I am Scaly and I am proud!

User avatar
New Federation China
Diplomat
 
Posts: 564
Founded: May 18, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby New Federation China » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:53 pm

TurtleShroom wrote:
New Federation China wrote:Individualism is detrimental to the Community. While each and every comrade-citizen matters and all their ideals matter, they must first work towards the forwarding of the commune society, and of their fellows fellow creatures before they can be individual.

^ Edited to match TurtleShroom. (Eerie that we agree with the Marxists.)



Marxist? Never! Do not compare us to the Western Barbarians of the Soviet Union!

The Glorious People's Republic is Laoist; not Marxist-Leninist.
(The) Republic of China - 中華民國 - Zhōnghuá Mínguó[MT]
(The) Republic of Xindalu - 新大陸 - Xīndàlù [Rostil]

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Mount Shavano
Minister
 
Posts: 2124
Founded: Jan 04, 2008
Corporate Bordello

Postby Mount Shavano » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:30 pm

The Front Range legal code tends towards individualism, but you certainly won't find Mill quoted in the Constitution.
The Federation of Mount Shavano
Consul Morgan Dawson
Capital : San Angelo
The Cowboy Angel Rides

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The Kangaroo Republic
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5388
Founded: Feb 18, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby The Kangaroo Republic » Tue Aug 23, 2011 9:32 am

Saurisisia wrote:
The Kangaroo Republic wrote:What a brilliant lie.


Not really a lie.

Not a lie you say? Such wonderful words coming from a government that exiles mammalian homosexuals and tries to 'cure' reptilian homosexuals through 'rehabilitation' AKA brainwashing.
Sub Astra --- Australes Unum
they/them or he/him pronouns please
Version 3 of the Kangaroo Republic started on 9 March, 2014

>>Go to factbook<<

Other names for the Kangaroo Republic: The Federation, FKR, The Federal Kangaroo Republic
Demonym: Macropodine, Kangan
NS resident kangaroo furry and therian.
Demsoc, Pro BLM, Pro Antifa
Big ol' non-binary duder

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Saurisisia
Post Czar
 
Posts: 30207
Founded: Jan 28, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Saurisisia » Tue Aug 23, 2011 10:54 am

The Kangaroo Republic wrote:
Saurisisia wrote:
Not really a lie.

Not a lie you say? Such wonderful words coming from a government that exiles mammalian homosexuals and tries to 'cure' reptilian homosexuals through 'rehabilitation' AKA brainwashing.

Well, you could say it's more of a half-lie.
Autistic, Christian, Capitalist, Libertarian
Don't wish to display my sexuality for all to see because I don't care about what sexuality someone is
Make Tea, Not Love
Proud Yankee Monarchist
DA Account
https://dragcave.net/user/Bellumsaur13
Things in our country run in spite of government, not by aid of it. - Will Rogers
This nation reflects my RL beliefs and values (for the most part, anyway)
P/MT: The United Provinces of Saurisia
FT: The Federal Systems Republic of Saurisia
MT FT Embassy
ANTHRO AND A MEMBER OF THE MULTI-SPECIES UNION!

My nation's dominated by talking Dinosaurs, there is no realism (because ultra-realism is SO boring)
Dinosaurs rule!
I am Scaly and I am proud!

User avatar
Esparata
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 17
Founded: Aug 23, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Esparata » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:40 pm

Whilst the individual freedom of the individual citizen is tolerated to some extent it is subservient to the will of the State and People of Esparata as a whole.

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Zeiffelheim
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 380
Founded: May 29, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Zeiffelheim » Tue Aug 23, 2011 6:26 pm

Cedarwood River wrote:
"The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilised community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant. He cannot rightfully be compelled to do or forbear because it will be better for him to do so, because it will make him happier, because, in the opinion of others, to do so would be wise, or even right... The only part of the conduct of anyone, for which he is amenable to society, is that which concerns others. In the part which merely concerns himself, his independence is, of right, absolute. Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign."
~ John Stuart Mill



The Republic agrees wholeheartedly, this is in fact the very basis of the Republic itself.
President: Brian Sjorfreid
Prime Minister: Michael Thomas
High Commander of the Armed Forces of the Republic: Grand Admiral John Reicher
Army:
Infantry Corps
Armored Corps
Artillery Corps
Airborne Infantry Corps (Rangers)
Army Elite Special Operations Force (Blue Berets)
Field Reconnaissance Force (Ghosts)
Department of Military Intelligence

Navy:
Republican Naval Force
Republican Marine Corps
Naval Special Warfare Division (Strikers)
Field Reconnaissance Force (Ghosts)
Department of Naval Intelligence

Republican Air Force:
Research and Development
Air Combat Force
Rescue and Retrieval Operations Force (Angels)

Republican Civil Defense Force:
Home Guard
Republican Honor Guard (Sentinels)
Defcon:
1 2 3 4 5

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Cedarwood River
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 446
Founded: Dec 14, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Cedarwood River » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:04 pm

Saurisisia wrote:
The Kangaroo Republic wrote:Not a lie you say? Such wonderful words coming from a government that exiles mammalian homosexuals and tries to 'cure' reptilian homosexuals through 'rehabilitation' AKA brainwashing.

Well, you could say it's more of a half-lie.

I fail to understand where the 50% off comes from.
Seriously,
This post sponsored by Redcedar Creek Malt Whiskey

Alex MacFarlane
Presiding Officer, Parliament of Cedarwood River
"Hey, I am looking for freedom, in the wild eyes of the dancing girls
Hey, I am looking for freedom, in the open arms of America"

~ Noah Gundersen, Fire

User avatar
Lazssia
Senator
 
Posts: 4015
Founded: Apr 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Lazssia » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:26 pm

Yes, we Lazssians all have a strong sense of individualism, while also maintaining a feeling of social/cultural unity and kinship.
Last edited by Lazssia on Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Democratic Koyro
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5111
Founded: Feb 13, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Democratic Koyro » Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:32 pm

Individualism is detrimental to the Community. Individual Comrades are an irrelevence, their opinions are irrelevent, only the will of the collective matters which is expressed through the Koy People's Socialist Revolutionary Party. To conform to party lines is required. There is no room for individualist thought or action in the Koy People's Democratic Republic, only the collective matters. Thus, all actions must be for the benefit of the collective Koy People. Therefore we reject the theory wholeheartdly
Last edited by Democratic Koyro on Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
THERMOBARIC THERMITE

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