by Libertarian Mesa » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:29 pm
by UCUMAY » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:31 pm
by Tuthina » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:37 pm
14:54:02 <Lykens> Explain your definition of Reno.
11:47 <Swilatia> Good god, copy+paste is no way to build a country!
03:08 <Democratic Koyro> NSG senate is a glaring example of why no one in NSG should ever have a position of authority
by Ceannairceach » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:53 pm
by Nightkill the Emperor » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:57 pm
Nat: Night's always in some bizarre state somewhere between "intoxicated enough to kill a hair metal lead singer" and "annoying Mormon missionary sober".
Swith: It's because you're so awesome. God himself refreshes the screen before he types just to see if Nightkill has written anything while he was off somewhere else.
by North Calaveras » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:59 pm
Tuthina wrote:Ensure everyone can live under a roof, have something to eat, and have jobs to do. It might not fix all problems, but it is probably a good start.
While I would suggest the government subsidising all those stuff, it should be obvious that you and other libertarians would be against it. I think that tax incentives for companies to do the above stuff should be good enough in your viewpoint. However, given the nature of companies, I doubt it would help those who need the services most.
USA, technically being a secular state, probably should not meddle in religious affairs, but sometimes I would think that churches might be the one who can help them, beside government aids. I wonder would it be unconstitutional for the state to call for charity aids from churches and similar organisation?
by UCUMAY » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:00 pm
North Calaveras wrote:Tuthina wrote:Ensure everyone can live under a roof, have something to eat, and have jobs to do. It might not fix all problems, but it is probably a good start.
While I would suggest the government subsidising all those stuff, it should be obvious that you and other libertarians would be against it. I think that tax incentives for companies to do the above stuff should be good enough in your viewpoint. However, given the nature of companies, I doubt it would help those who need the services most.
USA, technically being a secular state, probably should not meddle in religious affairs, but sometimes I would think that churches might be the one who can help them, beside government aids. I wonder would it be unconstitutional for the state to call for charity aids from churches and similar organisation?
How can you ensure everyone housing, food and jobs?
by Angleter » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:08 pm
by Shadow25 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:11 pm
by Vecherd » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:20 pm
by Angleter » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:24 pm
Shadow25 wrote:oh i wish that my third world country was like USA
by Terra Agora » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:27 pm
Libertarian Mesa wrote:When one thinks of America, you probably think the Statue of Liberty or the Empire State Building, Hollywood, pristine suburban streets, or things which bring wealth and happiness. Many people do not realize that some parts of the country like Third World nations. Here are some examples:
East St. Louis, Illinois
Percent of population in poverty: 35.1
Population: 27,000
Number of killings in 2007: 30
Pine Ridge, South Dakota
Unemployment rate: Approx. 80%
Life expectancy: About 50 years, the lowest in the Western Hemisphere apart from Haiti.
There are others, like Fort Thompson, South Dakota, where 64.6% of people live in poverty and many homes don't have even plumbing or kitchens. My question is, what on Earth can be done to these poor areas. I'm a libertarian and therefore oppose government aid for the poor, but what else can these people depend on? The only thing I can think of is the tax incentives for businesses to create jobs there. But could it really solve all their problems?
What do you all think? Especially capitalist libertarians, as this is quite a dilemma.
by Trotskylvania » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:29 pm
Terra Agora wrote:Libertarian Mesa wrote:When one thinks of America, you probably think the Statue of Liberty or the Empire State Building, Hollywood, pristine suburban streets, or things which bring wealth and happiness. Many people do not realize that some parts of the country like Third World nations. Here are some examples:
East St. Louis, Illinois
Percent of population in poverty: 35.1
Population: 27,000
Number of killings in 2007: 30
Pine Ridge, South Dakota
Unemployment rate: Approx. 80%
Life expectancy: About 50 years, the lowest in the Western Hemisphere apart from Haiti.
There are others, like Fort Thompson, South Dakota, where 64.6% of people live in poverty and many homes don't have even plumbing or kitchens. My question is, what on Earth can be done to these poor areas. I'm a libertarian and therefore oppose government aid for the poor, but what else can these people depend on? The only thing I can think of is the tax incentives for businesses to create jobs there. But could it really solve all their problems?
What do you all think? Especially capitalist libertarians, as this is quite a dilemma.
Most of these places are shit holes because they are over run with gangs.
Your Friendly Neighborhood Ultra - The Left Wing of the Impossible
Putting the '-sadism' in PosadismKarl Marx, Wage Labour and Capital
Anton Pannekoek, World Revolution and Communist Tactics
Amadeo Bordiga, Dialogue With Stalin
Nikolai Bukharin, The ABC of Communism
Gilles Dauvé, When Insurrections Die"The hell of capitalism is the firm, not the fact that the firm has a boss."- Bordiga
by Terra Agora » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:32 pm
by Sibirsky » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:37 pm
Libertarian Mesa wrote:When one thinks of America, you probably think the Statue of Liberty or the Empire State Building, Hollywood, pristine suburban streets, or things which bring wealth and happiness. Many people do not realize that some parts of the country like Third World nations. Here are some examples:
East St. Louis, Illinois
Percent of population in poverty: 35.1
Population: 27,000
Number of killings in 2007: 30
Pine Ridge, South Dakota
Unemployment rate: Approx. 80%
Life expectancy: About 50 years, the lowest in the Western Hemisphere apart from Haiti.
There are others, like Fort Thompson, South Dakota, where 64.6% of people live in poverty and many homes don't have even plumbing or kitchens. My question is, what on Earth can be done to these poor areas. I'm a libertarian and therefore oppose government aid for the poor, but what else can these people depend on? The only thing I can think of is the tax incentives for businesses to create jobs there. But could it really solve all their problems?
What do you all think? Especially capitalist libertarians, as this is quite a dilemma.
by Johz » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:37 pm
Terra Agora wrote:Libertarian Mesa wrote:When one thinks of America, you probably think the Statue of Liberty or the Empire State Building, Hollywood, pristine suburban streets, or things which bring wealth and happiness. Many people do not realize that some parts of the country like Third World nations. Here are some examples:
East St. Louis, Illinois
Percent of population in poverty: 35.1
Population: 27,000
Number of killings in 2007: 30
Pine Ridge, South Dakota
Unemployment rate: Approx. 80%
Life expectancy: About 50 years, the lowest in the Western Hemisphere apart from Haiti.
There are others, like Fort Thompson, South Dakota, where 64.6% of people live in poverty and many homes don't have even plumbing or kitchens. My question is, what on Earth can be done to these poor areas. I'm a libertarian and therefore oppose government aid for the poor, but what else can these people depend on? The only thing I can think of is the tax incentives for businesses to create jobs there. But could it really solve all their problems?
What do you all think? Especially capitalist libertarians, as this is quite a dilemma.
Most of these places are shit holes because they are over run with gangs.
by Sibirsky » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:39 pm
Angleter wrote:The poorest counties are only as bad as Serbia, so far from third world, though not great nonetheless. A lot of these places, particularly the poorest ones in South Dakota, seem to be Native American lands, so wouldn't it be the tribes' responsibilities, given their autonomy?
by Sibirsky » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:40 pm
Vecherd wrote:Seeing how all those three places have a higher than 95% minority population, the only logical thing would be to spread them around in the white North, they wont be richer, but hey, it looks better on paper.
Other than that I am a supporter of the Free Market and letting them start their own businesses without problems and cut the the discriminating minimum wage laws so more people can get more jobs. I am sure this would absolutely increase standard of living.
by Chrobalta » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:42 pm
by Ifreann » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:42 pm
by Mussoliniopoli » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:44 pm
Sibirsky wrote:Angleter wrote:The poorest counties are only as bad as Serbia, so far from third world, though not great nonetheless. A lot of these places, particularly the poorest ones in South Dakota, seem to be Native American lands, so wouldn't it be the tribes' responsibilities, given their autonomy?
Not exactly. Tribal lands do not exist in legal reality. That is US Federal government land. And that is the problem. Property rights are a cornerstone of any prosperous society.
by Malgrave » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:46 pm
Frenequesta wrote:Well-dressed mad scientists with an edge.
by Sibirsky » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:46 pm
by Terra Agora » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:48 pm
Sibirsky wrote:Angleter wrote:The poorest counties are only as bad as Serbia, so far from third world, though not great nonetheless. A lot of these places, particularly the poorest ones in South Dakota, seem to be Native American lands, so wouldn't it be the tribes' responsibilities, given their autonomy?
Not exactly. Tribal lands do not exist in legal reality. That is US Federal government land. And that is the problem. Property rights are a cornerstone of any prosperous society.
by Trotskylvania » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:51 pm
Sibirsky wrote:Angleter wrote:The poorest counties are only as bad as Serbia, so far from third world, though not great nonetheless. A lot of these places, particularly the poorest ones in South Dakota, seem to be Native American lands, so wouldn't it be the tribes' responsibilities, given their autonomy?
Not exactly. Tribal lands do not exist in legal reality. That is US Federal government land. And that is the problem. Property rights are a cornerstone of any prosperous society.
Your Friendly Neighborhood Ultra - The Left Wing of the Impossible
Putting the '-sadism' in PosadismKarl Marx, Wage Labour and Capital
Anton Pannekoek, World Revolution and Communist Tactics
Amadeo Bordiga, Dialogue With Stalin
Nikolai Bukharin, The ABC of Communism
Gilles Dauvé, When Insurrections Die"The hell of capitalism is the firm, not the fact that the firm has a boss."- Bordiga
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