by Breten (Ancient) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:07 am
by North Suran » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:10 am
Neu Mitanni wrote:As for NS, his latest statement is grounded in ignorance and contrary to fact, much to the surprise of all NSGers.
Geniasis wrote:The War on Christmas
by Izarius » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:12 am
by Breten (Ancient) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:18 am
North Suran wrote:The Westminster parliament is essentially the English parliament, which is why Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland received devolved assemblies in the first place. Of the 650 constituencies, 533 are English, 40 are Welsh, 59 are Scottish and 18 are Northern Irish. If literally every single non-English constituency united together, it would only account for a fraction of the parliament. So no, there's no need for one, and no real demand for one.
by Lackadaisical2 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:21 am
The Republic of Lanos wrote:Proud member of the Vile Right-Wing Noodle Combat Division of the Imperialist Anti-Socialist Economic War Army Ground Force reporting in.
by Breten (Ancient) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:21 am
Izarius wrote:I'm not from the UK, but the union should break up imo. Don't give too much importance to my opinion though.
by Breten (Ancient) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:22 am
Lackadaisical2 wrote:If I was living there I'd prefer no devolution at all.
by Lackadaisical2 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:23 am
The Republic of Lanos wrote:Proud member of the Vile Right-Wing Noodle Combat Division of the Imperialist Anti-Socialist Economic War Army Ground Force reporting in.
by North Suran » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:25 am
Breten wrote:North Suran wrote:The Westminster parliament is essentially the English parliament, which is why Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland received devolved assemblies in the first place. Of the 650 constituencies, 533 are English, 40 are Welsh, 59 are Scottish and 18 are Northern Irish. If literally every single non-English constituency united together, it would only account for a fraction of the parliament. So no, there's no need for one, and no real demand for one.
Westminster is the UK Parliament, not the English Parliament - the English don't have one.
Breten wrote:Most people support an English Parliament:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6264823.stm
Breten wrote:England is disadvantaged because it doesn't have a voice. MSPs stick up for Scotland, AMs stick up for Wales, MLAs stick up for Northern Ireland, yet no-one is there for England.
Breten wrote:As you have mentioned, England already suffers from having a disproportionately small number of MPs, thus allowing certain issues which only affect England to be passed courtesy of Scottish votes.
Neu Mitanni wrote:As for NS, his latest statement is grounded in ignorance and contrary to fact, much to the surprise of all NSGers.
Geniasis wrote:The War on Christmas
by Breten (Ancient) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:28 am
North Suran wrote:Breten wrote:Westminster is the UK Parliament, not the English Parliament - the English don't have one.
That's why I said "essentially". Get a dictionary.Breten wrote:Most people support an English Parliament:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6264823.stm
A four year old poll doesn't say much about today. Furthermore, even if there is a demand for it, it is not a major political issue and none of the parties have adopted it as part of their platform.Breten wrote:England is disadvantaged because it doesn't have a voice. MSPs stick up for Scotland, AMs stick up for Wales, MLAs stick up for Northern Ireland, yet no-one is there for England.
The Westminster parliament is there for England.Breten wrote:As you have mentioned, England already suffers from having a disproportionately small number of MPs, thus allowing certain issues which only affect England to be passed courtesy of Scottish votes.
That's not what I said. At all. In fact, it is the complete opposite. I pointed out that a massive majority of the House of Commons is made up of English MPs. Even if the MPs for every other region of the UK unanimously voted against a bill, it would only take half of the English MPs to override them. England is not a victim, here.
by North Suran » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:32 am
Breten wrote:No no no. There are no English MPs, only British MPs.
Breten wrote:The Westminster Parliament is there for the UK, not for England.
Neu Mitanni wrote:As for NS, his latest statement is grounded in ignorance and contrary to fact, much to the surprise of all NSGers.
Geniasis wrote:The War on Christmas
by Chumblywumbly » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:33 am
North Suran wrote:The Westminster parliament is there for England... Even if the MPs for every other region of the UK unanimously voted against a bill, it would only take half of the English MPs to override them. England is not a victim, here.
by Breten (Ancient) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:35 am
North Suran wrote:Breten wrote:No no no. There are no English MPs, only British MPs.
Except there are English MPs - the MPs for the English constituencies.Breten wrote:The Westminster Parliament is there for the UK, not for England.
Until the creation of the Scottish Parliament, the House of Commons was the de facto English parliament. The English complaining about under-representation is laughable; England is the largest region in the UK, houses the central British government and possesses the most constituencies. Its akin to early 20th century Prussia complaining that it was under-represented in the German Empire.
by North Suran » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:36 am
Chumblywumbly wrote:North Suran wrote:The Westminster parliament is there for England... Even if the MPs for every other region of the UK unanimously voted against a bill, it would only take half of the English MPs to override them. England is not a victim, here.
Westminster is there for the UK and some of the legislation that passes through it only affects England. I'm sure you're well aware of the West Lothian question; the fact that MPs from Scotland, NI and Wales can help pass legislation that only affects English constituents. Though there are plenty more English MPs compared to ones from Scotland, NI and Wales, said MPs are drawn from across party lines. The last government made a great deal of this, pushing through foundation hospitals, tuition fee hikes, etc.; policies that would not have passed if only English MPs voted.
If not a separate English parliament, what's you solution? Excluding non-English MPs from legislative debates and votes (in effect creating an English parliament within Westminster)? Devolving more power to Holyrood, Stormont and Cardiff?
Or something else?
Neu Mitanni wrote:As for NS, his latest statement is grounded in ignorance and contrary to fact, much to the surprise of all NSGers.
Geniasis wrote:The War on Christmas
by North Suran » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:36 am
Breten wrote:North Suran wrote:Except there are English MPs - the MPs for the English constituencies.
Until the creation of the Scottish Parliament, the House of Commons was the de facto English parliament. The English complaining about under-representation is laughable; England is the largest region in the UK, houses the central British government and possesses the most constituencies. Its akin to early 20th century Prussia complaining that it was under-represented in the German Empire.
Again, you aren't grasping basic concepts. England is not a region, England is a nation, much like Wales or Scotland (I'll leave NI out of it because that's a whole other issue).
Neu Mitanni wrote:As for NS, his latest statement is grounded in ignorance and contrary to fact, much to the surprise of all NSGers.
Geniasis wrote:The War on Christmas
by Breten (Ancient) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:37 am
North Suran wrote:Chumblywumbly wrote:Westminster is there for the UK and some of the legislation that passes through it only affects England. I'm sure you're well aware of the West Lothian question; the fact that MPs from Scotland, NI and Wales can help pass legislation that only affects English constituents. Though there are plenty more English MPs compared to ones from Scotland, NI and Wales, said MPs are drawn from across party lines. The last government made a great deal of this, pushing through foundation hospitals, tuition fee hikes, etc.; policies that would not have passed if only English MPs voted.
If not a separate English parliament, what's you solution? Excluding non-English MPs from legislative debates and votes (in effect creating an English parliament within Westminster)? Devolving more power to Holyrood, Stormont and Cardiff?
Or something else?
The West Lothian Question is just an inherent problem of devolution, which cannot easily be solved. At any rate, I think the status quo is acceptable, and most proposed solutions are only can exacerbate the issue and make things worse.
by Banold » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:37 am
by Breten (Ancient) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:38 am
North Suran wrote:Breten wrote:Again, you aren't grasping basic concepts. England is not a region, England is a nation, much like Wales or Scotland (I'll leave NI out of it because that's a whole other issue).
What the fuck does that have to do with anything that I just said?
I think you aren't grasping basic concepts - like relevancy.
by North Suran » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:38 am
Breten wrote:An English Parliament would fix the problem. As someone who lives in England, the status quo is not acceptable so something needs to be done.
Neu Mitanni wrote:As for NS, his latest statement is grounded in ignorance and contrary to fact, much to the surprise of all NSGers.
Geniasis wrote:The War on Christmas
by Breten (Ancient) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:39 am
by North Suran » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:40 am
Breten wrote:North Suran wrote:What the fuck does that have to do with anything that I just said?
I think you aren't grasping basic concepts - like relevancy.
Read your post again. You said England is the largest region. England is a nation, not a region, which is one of the arguments for an English Parliament, so there's a lot of relevancy in there.
Breten wrote:Do try to keep up.
Neu Mitanni wrote:As for NS, his latest statement is grounded in ignorance and contrary to fact, much to the surprise of all NSGers.
Geniasis wrote:The War on Christmas
by North Suran » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:41 am
Neu Mitanni wrote:As for NS, his latest statement is grounded in ignorance and contrary to fact, much to the surprise of all NSGers.
Geniasis wrote:The War on Christmas
by Chumblywumbly » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:41 am
North Suran wrote:Chumblywumbly wrote:Westminster is there for the UK and some of the legislation that passes through it only affects England. I'm sure you're well aware of the West Lothian question; the fact that MPs from Scotland, NI and Wales can help pass legislation that only affects English constituents. Though there are plenty more English MPs compared to ones from Scotland, NI and Wales, said MPs are drawn from across party lines. The last government made a great deal of this, pushing through foundation hospitals, tuition fee hikes, etc.; policies that would not have passed if only English MPs voted.
If not a separate English parliament, what's you solution? Excluding non-English MPs from legislative debates and votes (in effect creating an English parliament within Westminster)? Devolving more power to Holyrood, Stormont and Cardiff?
Or something else?
The West Lothian Question is just an inherent problem of devolution, which cannot easily be solved. At any rate, I think the status quo is acceptable, and most proposed solutions are only can exacerbate the issue and make things worse.
by Breten (Ancient) » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:41 am
North Suran wrote:Breten wrote:Read your post again. You said England is the largest region. England is a nation, not a region, which is one of the arguments for an English Parliament, so there's a lot of relevancy in there.
None of which is relevant to the reasons I gave against an English parliament.Breten wrote:Do try to keep up.
For someone who insists on making snide, condescending remarks, you are pretty fucking ignorant.
by Pesda » Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:41 am
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