[DRAFT] Setting The Record Straight

[Omnicontrol]

This draft came after an exchange in the NS Cards server earlier today about the lack of a Homosexuality policy and how Iran transitions gay people to make them straight again. I am a trans woman, so I have a tad of experience going into this one. Co-authorship goes to my friend Sateru for some great work on the pun side of things (including the title and most effect lines).

[title] Setting The Record Straight

[validity] has Heterosexuality policy, has not banned trans healthcare
[co-author] Sateru

[desc] After your Ministry of Internal Affairs noticed a significant discrepancy in census records, an investigation led them to the discovery that many @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ covertly changed their legal gender and immediately after, entered a marriage that would've been previously considered homosexual, and therefore banned. While attempting to prosecute them, the Ministry also discovered these @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@, and the census offices they registered in, didn't break any laws, as legally changing your gender is not forbidden in @@NAME@@.

[option] A tired staffer at the Ministry of Internal Affairs drops off a manila folder at your desk. "Do you know how much time this would take me to get fixed? And that's without counting the hassle of informing every single corner of the country about this stuff and what to watch out for..." They audibly sigh. "Besides, isn't the whole point of heterosexuality laws to not have gay couples? Just allow people to transition. You know, hormone therapy, the whole nine yards. That way we can just have any gay couples become straight."
[effect] progressives all across the world are oddly fond of @@NAME@@

[option] Shoving the staffer to the side, your staunchly conservative Advisor on Traditional @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Values, @@RANDOMNAME1@@, throws an even thicker folder on your desk, rattling your belongings and knocking a portrait down. "If these no-good fraudsters want to get away with violating the law and going directly against our values, we'll show them just what you get for trying to pull a fast one on the @@PRETITLE@@." @@HE_1@@ slams the folder open. "I've gathered the names of all these scumbags. All you need to do is sign off on it, and we'll have them 'dealt with' sooner than you can say @@MOTTO@@."
[effect] women are lynched due to 'excessive bideltoid breadth'

[option] "M-maybe we could, um, s-stop persecuting homosexuality?" nervously splutters Neil Down, your longtime bodyguard, hiding a suspiciously colorful bracelet under his jacket. "It's not like I'm, um, one of them, but it- it's just caused us so many headaches, you know? No matter what we do they'll always be able to find some loophole." He gulps. "S-so... we should just divert our attention to more p-pressing matters."
[effect] heterosexual @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ are told to "pray the straight away"

[option] A concerningly orange man breaks down your door, bursting uninvited into your office. "Transgender for everybody! Do you know the United Federation spent 8 million @@CURRENCY@@ on making mice transgender?" You begin to wonder whether you should get your security details to throw him out, but you decide to keep the entertainment going. "Anyways, what I'm saying, the Federation is a great nation, one of the best nations in history, and they have a point. So we should do transgender for everybody, gay for everybody, no straight people. None."
[effect] @@DEMONYM@@ women get government-mandated trans girlfriends

[title] Setting The Record Straight

[validity] has Heterosexuality policy, has not banned trans healthcare
[co-author] Sateru

[desc] After your Ministry of Internal Affairs noticed a significant discrepancy in the census, an investigation led them to the discovery that many @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ covertly changed their legal gender and immediately after, entered a marriage that would've been previously considered homosexual, and therefore banned. While attempting to prosecute them, the Ministry also discovered there is no law banning transition in @@NAME@@.

[option] A tired staffer at the Ministry of Internal Affairs drops off a manila folder at your desk. "Do you know how much time this would take me to get fixed? And that's without counting the hassle of informing every single corner of the country about this stuff and what to watch out for..." They audibly sigh. "Besides, isn't the whole point of heterosexuality laws to not have gay couples? Just allow people to transition. That way we can just have any gay couples become straight."
[effect] progressives all across the world are oddly fond of @@NAME@@

[option] Shoving the staffer to the side, your staunchly conservative Advisor on Traditional @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Values, @@RANDOMNAME1@@ throws an even thicker folder on your desk, rattling your belongings and knocking a portrait down. "If these no-good fraudsters want to get away with violating the law and going directly against our values, we'll show them just what you get for trying to pull a fast one on the @@PRETITLE@@." @@HE_1@@ slams the folder open. "I've gathered the names of all these scumbags. All you need to do is sign off on it, and we'll have them 'dealt with' sooner than you can say @@MOTTO@@."
[effect] women are lynched due to 'excessive bideltoid breadth'

[option] "M-maybe we could, um, s-stop persecuting homosexuality?" nervously splutters Neil Down, your longtime bodyguard, hiding a suspiciously colorful bracelet under his jacket. "It's not like I'm, um, one of them, but it- it's just caused us so many headaches, you know? No matter what we do they'll always be able to find some loophole." He gulps. "S-so... we should just divert our attention to more p-pressing matters."
[effect] heterosexual @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ are told to "pray the straight away"

[option] A concerningly orange man breaks down your door, bursting uninvited into your office. "Transgender for everybody! Do you know the United Federation spent 8 million @@CURRENCY@@ on making mice transgender?" You begin to wonder whether you should get your security details to throw him out, but you decide to keep the entertainment going. "Anyways, what I'm saying, the Federation is a great nation, one of the best nations in history, and they have a point. So we should do transgender for everybody, gay for everybody, no straight people. None."
[effect] @@DEMONYM@@ women get government-mandated girlfriends

[Kractero]

Questions from the description:

1) What does it mean to "covertly change your legal gender?" Covertly means it was done in secret, but LEGAL means it is in government records. How would the government then track the genders and thus the census improperly?

2) This is pursuing two different issues. It starts off about whether it is legal to change your gender to circumvent the heterosexuality policy. Suddenly at the very end a sentence introduces that the legal system never established a law on transitioning. Now, if the "covert" legal gender changes above are done via transitioning, you can ignore the rest, but this basically turns the issue on its head, because initially it seems people are doing it to get around the policy, but suddenly it becomes a transgender issue with only a loose connection between the two involving a change of gender.

This is reflected in the options, with option 1 proposing a law allowing people to transition in order to not have gay couples. It could be that this is written as you guys intended and the speaker is unaware, but this wouldn't even solve the problem, because you could still have homosexual couples even after a transition.

Also, the two different issues present in the framing as mentioned above make "transition" here unclear. Transition could mean a transgender transition or just allowing one to change their legal gender to become make their relationship legally heterosexual. If it is the former, it overlaps with option 3, which removes the heterosexuality policy but makes no mention of transition. If its the latter nothing changes at all aside from formalization unless again, the speaker is just unaware.

[Omnicontrol]

1) What does it mean to "covertly change your legal gender?" Covertly means it was done in secret, but LEGAL means it is in government records. How would the government then track the genders and thus the census improperly?

I think this is fine as is - we might want to clarify it, but the implication is that while medical transition is banned, switching your gender isn't due to a legal oversight, and local census offices have been maliciously complying with the law. An option to go against the census offices themselves could be added but that turns this into a structural corruption issue, which reaches past what this issue is meant to be about. I also think option 2 already kind of serves this purpose as a "crack down" option.

2) This is pursuing two different issues. It starts off about whether it is legal to change your gender to circumvent the heterosexuality policy. Suddenly at the very end a sentence introduces that the legal system never established a law on transitioning. Now, if the "covert" legal gender changes above are done via transitioning, you can ignore the rest, but this basically turns the issue on its head, because initially it seems people are doing it to get around the policy, but suddenly it becomes a transgender issue with only a loose connection between the two involving a change of gender.

This is reflected in the options, with option 1 proposing a law allowing people to transition in order to not have gay couples. It could be that this is written as you guys intended and the speaker is unaware, but this wouldn't even solve the problem, because you could still have homosexual couples even after a transition.

Also, the two different issues present in the framing as mentioned above make "transition" here unclear. Transition could mean a transgender transition or just allowing one to change their legal gender to become make their relationship legally heterosexual. If it is the former, it overlaps with option 3, which removes the heterosexuality policy but makes no mention of transition. If its the latter nothing changes at all aside from formalization unless again, the speaker is just unaware.

I'll make some clarifying changes to make the difference between medical transition and legal transition clear - echoing my reply to point 1, the implication is that medical transition is banned but legal transition (or, in layman's terms, switching your legal gender) isn't because the country just forgot to ban it along with homosexual relationships; and some local census offices could be maliciously following the law. I do think the wording could be better.

[Trotterdam]

We covered this back in #1162.

[Omnicontrol]

We covered this back in #1162.

Reads as a very different issue to me - 1162 is about whether or not trans women are considered male (I'll note the dog whistle and grammatically incorrect term "transwoman" is utilized there, for some reason) - while my draft is about people changing their legal gender marker to avoid a homosexuality ban.

[Australian rePublic]

You're putting the cart before the horse here. In Iran, people are forced to change their gender if they're found to be gay. They don't change their gender to avoid homosexuality charges. Being transgender in Iran is a punishment for homosexuality. It could also work this way, but you'd have to adress the massive Pandora's Box that's opened here. For example, which husband is forced to change gender?

[Omnicontrol]

You're putting the cart before the horse here. In Iran, people are forced to change their gender if they're found to be gay. They don't change their gender to avoid homosexuality charges. Being transgender in Iran is a punishment for homosexuality. It could also work this way, but you'd have to adress the massive Pandora's Box that's opened here. For example, which husband is forced to change gender?

It's inspired by Iran's actions, not meant to be a copy - although I could write a follow-up to this if you pick option 1, since you would effectively be doing what Iran does. That would also let me kick down the "which spouse changes gender" can of worms to future Nova who writes THAT issue, since in this one, one of the two people changes their gender themselves, so the two people in a homosexual relationship probably decide who makes the legal change in the census.

[Omnicontrol]

I'll give this one a bump.

[Fhaengshia]

I have to agree that "covertly changed their legal gender" throws me a bit as well.
It's the opposite of a covert action, and would really only be the case if the nation's government is not focused on this, but there would still need to be a policy for getting someone to change their gender on driver's licenses, etc.
It's a bit weird, but maybe the nation is trans ok but not gay ok?

[Omnicontrol]

I have to agree that "covertly changed their legal gender" throws me a bit as well.
It's the opposite of a covert action, and would really only be the case if the nation's government is not focused on this, but there would still need to be a policy for getting someone to change their gender on driver's licenses, etc.
It's a bit weird, but maybe the nation is trans ok but not gay ok?

My initial thinking was that some local census offices/officers may have been in cahoots with the people doing this. Since the issue does require you to not have banned trans healthcare it could be reworked to just say "people are exploiting this to get into gay marriages", I don't think I would have to dance around the topic too much since it's a validity

[Fhaengshia]

I have to agree that "covertly changed their legal gender" throws me a bit as well.
It's the opposite of a covert action, and would really only be the case if the nation's government is not focused on this, but there would still need to be a policy for getting someone to change their gender on driver's licenses, etc.
It's a bit weird, but maybe the nation is trans ok but not gay ok?

My initial thinking was that some local census offices/officers may have been in cahoots with the people doing this. Since the issue does require you to not have banned trans healthcare it could be reworked to just say "people are exploiting this to get into gay marriages", I don't think I would have to dance around the topic too much since it's a validity

Right, so this is sort of more an issue around that "corruption". You could have the intro as something like:

"An investigation by your Ministry of Internal Affairs has uncovered a network of officers across various agencies that change the registered gender of @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ so they can enter a marriage that would've been previously considered homosexual, and therefore banned. ..."

[Grenartia]

This draft came after an exchange in the NS Cards server earlier today about the lack of a Homosexuality policy and how Iran transitions gay people to make them straight again. I am a trans woman, so I have a tad of experience going into this one. Co-authorship goes to my friend Sateru for some great work on the pun side of things (including the title and most effect lines).

[title] Setting The Record Straight

[validity] has Heterosexuality policy, has not banned trans healthcare
[co-author] Sateru

[desc] After your Ministry of Internal Affairs noticed a significant discrepancy in census records, an investigation led them to the discovery that many @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ covertly changed their legal gender and immediately after, entered a marriage that would've been previously considered homosexual, and therefore banned. While attempting to prosecute them, the Ministry also discovered these @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@, and the census offices they registered in, didn't break any laws, as legally changing your gender is not forbidden in @@NAME@@.

[option] A tired staffer at the Ministry of Internal Affairs drops off a manila folder at your desk. "Do you know how much time this would take me to get fixed? And that's without counting the hassle of informing every single corner of the country about this stuff and what to watch out for..." They audibly sigh. "Besides, isn't the whole point of heterosexuality laws to not have gay couples? Just allow people to transition. You know, hormone therapy, the whole nine yards. That way we can just have any gay couples become straight."
[effect] progressives all across the world are oddly fond of @@NAME@@

[option] Shoving the staffer to the side, your staunchly conservative Advisor on Traditional @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Values, @@RANDOMNAME1@@, throws an even thicker folder on your desk, rattling your belongings and knocking a portrait down. "If these no-good fraudsters want to get away with violating the law and going directly against our values, we'll show them just what you get for trying to pull a fast one on the @@PRETITLE@@." @@HE_1@@ slams the folder open. "I've gathered the names of all these scumbags. All you need to do is sign off on it, and we'll have them 'dealt with' sooner than you can say @@MOTTO@@."
[effect] women are lynched due to 'excessive bideltoid breadth'

[option] "M-maybe we could, um, s-stop persecuting homosexuality?" nervously splutters Neil Down, your longtime bodyguard, hiding a suspiciously colorful bracelet under his jacket. "It's not like I'm, um, one of them, but it- it's just caused us so many headaches, you know? No matter what we do they'll always be able to find some loophole." He gulps. "S-so... we should just divert our attention to more p-pressing matters."
[effect] heterosexual @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ are told to "pray the straight away"

[option] A concerningly orange man breaks down your door, bursting uninvited into your office. "Transgender for everybody! Do you know the United Federation spent 8 million @@CURRENCY@@ on making mice transgender?" You begin to wonder whether you should get your security details to throw him out, but you decide to keep the entertainment going. "Anyways, what I'm saying, the Federation is a great nation, one of the best nations in history, and they have a point. So we should do transgender for everybody, gay for everybody, no straight people. None."
[effect] @@DEMONYM@@ women get government-mandated trans girlfriends

[title] Setting The Record Straight

[validity] has Heterosexuality policy, has not banned trans healthcare
[co-author] Sateru

[desc] After your Ministry of Internal Affairs noticed a significant discrepancy in the census, an investigation led them to the discovery that many @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ covertly changed their legal gender and immediately after, entered a marriage that would've been previously considered homosexual, and therefore banned. While attempting to prosecute them, the Ministry also discovered there is no law banning transition in @@NAME@@.

[option] A tired staffer at the Ministry of Internal Affairs drops off a manila folder at your desk. "Do you know how much time this would take me to get fixed? And that's without counting the hassle of informing every single corner of the country about this stuff and what to watch out for..." They audibly sigh. "Besides, isn't the whole point of heterosexuality laws to not have gay couples? Just allow people to transition. That way we can just have any gay couples become straight."
[effect] progressives all across the world are oddly fond of @@NAME@@

[option] Shoving the staffer to the side, your staunchly conservative Advisor on Traditional @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Values, @@RANDOMNAME1@@ throws an even thicker folder on your desk, rattling your belongings and knocking a portrait down. "If these no-good fraudsters want to get away with violating the law and going directly against our values, we'll show them just what you get for trying to pull a fast one on the @@PRETITLE@@." @@HE_1@@ slams the folder open. "I've gathered the names of all these scumbags. All you need to do is sign off on it, and we'll have them 'dealt with' sooner than you can say @@MOTTO@@."
[effect] women are lynched due to 'excessive bideltoid breadth'

[option] "M-maybe we could, um, s-stop persecuting homosexuality?" nervously splutters Neil Down, your longtime bodyguard, hiding a suspiciously colorful bracelet under his jacket. "It's not like I'm, um, one of them, but it- it's just caused us so many headaches, you know? No matter what we do they'll always be able to find some loophole." He gulps. "S-so... we should just divert our attention to more p-pressing matters."
[effect] heterosexual @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ are told to "pray the straight away"

[option] A concerningly orange man breaks down your door, bursting uninvited into your office. "Transgender for everybody! Do you know the United Federation spent 8 million @@CURRENCY@@ on making mice transgender?" You begin to wonder whether you should get your security details to throw him out, but you decide to keep the entertainment going. "Anyways, what I'm saying, the Federation is a great nation, one of the best nations in history, and they have a point. So we should do transgender for everybody, gay for everybody, no straight people. None."
[effect] @@DEMONYM@@ women get government-mandated girlfriends

Not gonna lie, option 4 would be a hell of a policy to have.

[Southland]

Given that there's actually quite a bit of historical precedent of gays and lesbians presenting as the opposite sex to legally enter into marriages, there's definitely validity to this issue.

I agree with the others that the way this issue is being presented is muddled. The basic premise makes it about same-sex couples lying about their gender so they could get married, but the way Option 1 is written and based on your comments you want it to also tackle the lack of sex-change operations and trans healthcare in general. I would just stick to the premise as it's a simple yet organic one that is ripe for tackling, since it can tackle homophobia and issues of privacy. Here are some ways that could be fixed:
- The [desc] is fairly clunky, and I think simplifying can help make the issue more focused. Maybe something along the lines of "An audit of @@NAME@@'s census records by your Ministry of Internal Affairs lead to the discovery that many @@DEMONYMPLURAL@@ registered their legal gender on their marriage license as the opposite sex in order to enter a marriage that would've been previously considered homosexual. While attempting to prosecute them, the Ministry also discovered they technically didn't break any laws, as legally changing your gender is not forbidden in @@NAME@@." (Of course you don't have to use this verbatim).
- I would swap around Options 1 and 2, as it would flow better and nations that banned homosexuality would immediately jump into the "So make it illegal then!" option.
- In this context I find it odd that the speaker would be sympathetic to trans issues. As the other users pointed out, Iran (which you said this issue is based on) treats transitioning as more of a punishment for homosexuality than them being woke on this particular issue. I would make the Advisor on Traditional @@DEMONYMADJECTIVE@@ Values in Option 2 to actually be the one to advocate forcibly transitioning the homosexual citizens, with their attitude being "They claim they are of the opposite sex? Fine, let's make them actually live as the opposite sex if they mean it".
- On a related note, I would have the Ministry of the Internal Affairs be the one to advocate prosecution, as it makes more sense for them to want to punish people for lying on their census instead of being sympathetic towards them.
- ...What exactly is Tronald Dump advocating in Option 4? While I do think more issues as of late could use a final silly option, it still needs to make somewhat sense.

[Grenartia]

- ...What exactly is Tronald Dump advocating in Option 4? While I do think more issues as of late could use a final silly option, it still needs to make somewhat sense.

Forced feminization.