how do you reconcile being LGBT+ with your religion?

[Heavens Reach]

Why are we discussing the level of consciousness things have? I can tell you that from a neuroscientific perspective, as someone who works in the field, we have absolutely no way to falsify consciousness -- we do not know what its physical substrate is, and we don't even have a clue what it might be. What we can do is apply some law of parsimony to say what living things have a high probability of being conscious. What we cannot do to any reasonable degree whatsoever is put a probability on what living things (or nonliving things for that matter) don't have consciousness. If you're trying to decide what represents moral behavior in this state of uncertainty, the only useful application is the precautionary principle. If you don't know whether something is or isn't conscious, let alone the degree or complexity of consciousness it might have, but it exhibits qualities you know are exhibited by things you do assume to be conscious, the precautionary principle holds that you treat it as though you owe a moral obligation of minimizing harm toward it.

[Humanlonia]

I mean, they do have consciousness, according to neurological studies I think, but they do not have a human soul still

Everything has a soul. Some things just have more of a soul than others, and thus different things are held at different levels of responsibility than others. Souls are distributed among different things after rebirth, and unless you're able to pass judgment and break out of rebirth, your soul exists. Until you pass judgment, you are doomed to endlessly bounce from animal to animal and universe to universe.

What is a soul? What makes you think this absurd concept exists in nature?

[Humanlonia]

homophobes try not to force religion on society: challenge impossible

Even "Secular" ideological regimes like the USA have an animated force, an ideology, that they promote. In the modern west that would be atheistic liberal humanism, and in Nazi Germany, they had Positive Christianity, which is really just Christianity as a ritual shell, while the true theological core was Odinistic and Racialistic. No such thing as a true middle ground, that's a fantasy.

Before you make any assertions, please familiarize yourself with the concept of secularism.

[XXURBANXX]

homophobes try not to force religion on society: challenge impossible

in Nazi Germany, they had Positive Christianity, which is really just Christianity as a ritual shell, while the true theological core was Odinistic and Racialistic. No such thing as a true middle ground, that's a fantasy.

Well of course. I always found that strange though, because Christianity certainly doesn't call for just about anything that government did.

[Vakhgala]

Romans 1:26-27

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

All I see here is a condemnaton of lust, which is reasonable enough.

1 Cor 6:9

9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


New International Version of The Bible

The issue is that this isn't the original translation, and... didn't Christ already die for our sins? Isn't the Old Testament largely obsolete now?

Or are we gonna return to avoiding mixed fabrics and slavery?

Corinthians is new testament... and Christ didnt die so you can live in sin and sin freely - he died for you to help you defeat it.

[Sibersky]

I'm not religious however I am non binary and pan, simply put if your religion doesn't respect me I won't respect your religion, I will however respect the person provided they are respectful to me

[Vakhgala]

I do not claim that is a sin, the bible does

Again, why do you always believe the Bible ? I would not trust a book which explains that God created the world in seven days. Or six days, as I remember that God was too tired the seventh day to do anything, according to the Bible.

Those days are metaphorical, not literal. Most of biblical stories are metaphorical.

[Sibersky]

I'm not religious however I am non binary and pan, simply put if your religion doesn't respect me I won't respect your religion, I will however respect the person provided they are respectful to me, I believe that people should have freedom of religion, just don't expect me to respect the religion itself

[Vakhgala]

In orthodoxy you dont even have conversion therapy, you just fight those homosexual tendencies with prayer, fasting and church attendance and participating in the holy eucharist. that applies for all sins, and it worked for me.

Many "ex-gays" have said that before, and all of them later admitted that was a lie. Therefore, I see no reason to believe you're the exception.

i am simply saying that you can not call yourself a christian and be homosexual.

And as a Christian and a homosexual, I am saying you are wrong. And you cannot and will not force me to change my mind.

Ok
Romans 1:26-27
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
1 Corinthians 6:9
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a]

Biased translations. Serious scholarship suggests the actual meaning is condemnation of temple prostitution and/or pederasty (i.e., the socially-accepted form of pedophilia in the Greco-Roman world).

In original greek and hebrew (and arameic) the meaning behind it is still that homosexuality is a sin.

[Grenartia]

Many "ex-gays" have said that before, and all of them later admitted that was a lie. Therefore, I see no reason to believe you're the exception.



And as a Christian and a homosexual, I am saying you are wrong. And you cannot and will not force me to change my mind.



Biased translations. Serious scholarship suggests the actual meaning is condemnation of temple prostitution and/or pederasty (i.e., the socially-accepted form of pedophilia in the Greco-Roman world).

In original greek and hebrew (and arameic) the meaning behind it is still that homosexuality is a sin.

Tell me the original Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic words that mean "homosexuality". Go on. Do it.

[Herargon]

i'm a muslim and i'm okay with gays existing becuz it's their choice

people are born cishet or queer though, you don't "choose" to be one or the other.
and if there's a god, they don't make mistakes. so let us make life best for all, supporting people to live in peace, free from conversion therapy and many another sort of horrible torture.

[Floofybit]

In original greek and hebrew (and arameic) the meaning behind it is still that homosexuality is a sin.

Tell me the original Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic words that mean "homosexuality". Go on. Do it.

Homosexualitos

[Humanlonia]

Tell me the original Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic words that mean "homosexuality". Go on. Do it.

Homosexualitos

Sexus is Latin word.

[Vrijlanden]

Why are we discussing the level of consciousness things have? I can tell you that from a neuroscientific perspective, as someone who works in the field, we have absolutely no way to falsify consciousness -- we do not know what its physical substrate is, and we don't even have a clue what it might be. What we can do is apply some law of parsimony to say what living things have a high probability of being conscious. What we cannot do to any reasonable degree whatsoever is put a probability on what living things (or nonliving things for that matter) don't have consciousness. If you're trying to decide what represents moral behavior in this state of uncertainty, the only useful application is the precautionary principle. If you don't know whether something is or isn't conscious, let alone the degree or complexity of consciousness it might have, but it exhibits qualities you know are exhibited by things you do assume to be conscious, the precautionary principle holds that you treat it as though you owe a moral obligation of minimizing harm toward it.

Because people conflate consciousness with sapience, the latter being a higher level of consciousness.

[Heavens Reach]

Why are we discussing the level of consciousness things have? I can tell you that from a neuroscientific perspective, as someone who works in the field, we have absolutely no way to falsify consciousness -- we do not know what its physical substrate is, and we don't even have a clue what it might be. What we can do is apply some law of parsimony to say what living things have a high probability of being conscious. What we cannot do to any reasonable degree whatsoever is put a probability on what living things (or nonliving things for that matter) don't have consciousness. If you're trying to decide what represents moral behavior in this state of uncertainty, the only useful application is the precautionary principle. If you don't know whether something is or isn't conscious, let alone the degree or complexity of consciousness it might have, but it exhibits qualities you know are exhibited by things you do assume to be conscious, the precautionary principle holds that you treat it as though you owe a moral obligation of minimizing harm toward it.

Because people conflate consciousness with sapience, the latter being a higher level of consciousness.

I wouldn't argue that sapience is falsifiably a higher level of consciousness. It just describes human-like behaviors.

[Vrijlanden]

Because people conflate consciousness with sapience, the latter being a higher level of consciousness.

I wouldn't argue that sapience is falsifiably a higher level of consciousness. It just describes human-like behaviors.

Why is electricity (so far, as we can observe via organic life and AI), a prerequisite for consciousness?

[Unogonduria]

Homosexualitos

Sexus is Latin word.

Buzz-killer.

[Heavens Reach]

I wouldn't argue that sapience is falsifiably a higher level of consciousness. It just describes human-like behaviors.

Why is electricity (so far, as we can observe via organic life and AI), a prerequisite for consciousness?

We don't know that it is. But even if we did, we couldn't answer this question. There is no scientific answer to why something, or anything at all, ought to give rise to a feeling of what it's like to be something

[Marinixa]

people are born cishet or queer though, you don't "choose" to be one or the other.

This bugs me a lot. I don't hate gay people, I think they should have the same rights as straight people, but you are not "born" gay. You choose it, maybe not fully consciously, but it's the environment and, probably mostly, personal will that most likely make you gay as there is no proof of such a thing as a "gay gene".

[Necroghastia]

people are born cishet or queer though, you don't "choose" to be one or the other.

This bugs me a lot. I don't hate gay people, I think they should have the same rights as straight people, but you are not "born" gay. You choose it, maybe not fully consciously, but it's the environment and, probably mostly, personal will that most likely make you gay as there is no proof of such a thing as a "gay gene".

Do it, then. Choose to not be heterosexual.

[Feidjeg]

so afaik the no homo sin is rolled up with the no mixed textiles n shii
and you don't see christians getting bitchy about someone wearing polyester and cotton together now do you

[Marinixa]

Do it, then. Choose to not be heterosexual.

I could, but why would I?

[Marinixa]

so afaik the no homo sin is rolled up with the no mixed textiles n shii
and you don't see christians getting bitchy about someone wearing polyester and cotton together now do you

I mean in their defense that was about Israelite law, that no longer applies according to the Church.

[Necroghastia]

Do it, then. Choose to not be heterosexual.

I could, but why would I?

To prove your point.

Tell me, why does pseudoscience (really just abuse) like conversion therapy exist? Why would people actively choose to be oppressed, to have family and community view them as predatory monsters, sinners that are damned to hell, to be the victims of abuse, in many cases disowned by the people meant to love them the most?

[Marinixa]

To prove your point.

With all due respect, I'll not change my entire sexuality just to prove something to a random user of a roleplaying game. We can agree that heterosexual attraction is socially constructed. Is it too far a stretch to say sexuality iself is?

Yes, if you have the willpower, you can choose your sexuality.

Tell me, why does pseudoscience (really just abuse) like conversion therapy exist?

...Because people are stupid? "Wow, maybe sending my daughter to a sexual harassment camp will NOT make her be into men, who would have thought about it‽" Like, just like you cannot get your political beliefs just harassed out of you to "cure" you, sexuality cannot be harassed out of someone.

Why would people actively choose to be oppressed, to have family and community view them as predatory monsters, sinners that are damned to hell, to be the victims of abuse, in many cases disowned by the people meant to love them the most?

It's not the 1800s anymore. You don't get hanged for being queer. But when you did, casually, many people "hided" it. And they were awfully good at hiding it. So, maybe, they just were not?