how do you reconcile being LGBT+ with your religion?

[Ineva]

While I'm not queer, why would All-h make me gay or make me want to be a woman, if he never wanted me to be LGBTQ+?

Some religious strains will tell you that it is because He is testing your willpower to avoid succumbing to sinful temptations. These strains, however, would fail to recognize that said willpower would also be a product of His design, and, if not, the environment which curates it, too, would be by His design.

[Bassyria]

I feel like watching a clownfest today, so let me pose a simple question to you: If you have a religion, how do you reconcile it with your religious identity? Do you even feel the need to do so or not?

For me, I am a Catholic and a bisexual. Ive heard the many tired points of Leviticus and other Bible verses used to condemn the "sinful gays," but i simply do not care anymore for what other men have to say about homosexuality as a follower of Christ. Until I have my rendezvous with God, life is nothing more but a series of conflicting truths, and whether being gay is something He condones or condemns is frankly something I can never truly know while I am alive, unless He himself tells me that I must stop being gay.

Even then, if it turns out that my bisexuality is a sin, i don't believe that it will damn me to Hell outright. God knows that humanity is imperfect, but even then He made it so that we can be saved from our vices if we put our trust in Him and Jesus. So, no matter what, irrespective of my bisexuality or the other quirks that make me who i am in this life, I will trust Him, and I will walk with Jesus until it all comes to an end. I wont let the words of bigots who use His name as a shield erode and hinder my faith in Christianity anymore, because I know that as imperfect as I may be, I love God and He loves me.

Anyway, thank you for listening to my schizo rant. Now it's your turn.

Being homosexual isn't a sin. I've come to realize that the only sin is violating another person's sanctity, and being gay does not do that. Why would an ultra-powerful being such as God care about who someone sticks their shit in anyway? It has no interest in that; there are more important things to focus on.

[New Westmore]

One interesting thing I notice getting pointed out here often is that homosexual is sinful and immoral. OK, sure, maybe it is. But to that I say "so what?" In Christianity, it is made perfectly clear that all humans are sinners and are imperfect by nature. God knows that. It's why Jesus died on the cross for us. By his death, we now have the option to wear his righteousness before God if you choose to believe in him, allowing us to be perfect when it truly matters most. In other words, Jesus is basically a shower for our sins. It's your choice to use his services.

Anyway, being a follower of Jesus doesn't mean you have to be absolutely flawless in your devotion - the way I see it, it is more than okay to fall over or stumble over yourself while you walk with him. What matters above all else is that you're trying your best despite the flaws that make you human. Whether homosexuality is the stone I and others keep on tripping over while walking with Jesus is not something I am concerned about, because like I said, I believe the devotion is what matters the most.

[Holy Tedalonia]

One interesting thing I notice getting pointed out here often is that homosexual is sinful and immoral. OK, sure, maybe it is. But to that I say "so what?" In Christianity, it is made perfectly clear that all humans are sinners and are imperfect by nature. God knows that. It's why Jesus died on the cross for us. By his death, we now have the option to wear his righteousness before God if you choose to believe in him, allowing us to be perfect when it truly matters most. In other words, Jesus is basically a shower for our sins. It's your choice to use his services.

Anyway, being a follower of Jesus doesn't mean you have to be absolutely flawless in your devotion - the way I see it, it is more than okay to fall over or stumble over yourself while you walk with him. What matters above all else is that you're trying your best despite the flaws that make you human. Whether homosexuality is the stone I and others keep on tripping over while walking with Jesus is not something I am concerned about, because like I said, I believe the devotion is what matters the most.

I agree with this for the most part. There is a necessity in the religion to repent for sins, but that doesnt take away from the fact that in the eyes of God that sinners are redeemable. Its basically the whole point of the religion.

It should also be noted some sins are better dealt with on a personal basis. If you look at a sin like envy, how do you fix that? Its a matter of the heart. Its better for the individual to overcome that themselves or find their own peace with it. Sending them to a equivalent of a gay concentration camp wouldnt make the envy go away.

[Daemonkin of Corn]

Ah so it's a straw-man but also it's not a straw-man because that's what people are actually naive enough to think in this argument.

"Another strawman. Great. Except that the Great Spirit (God) actually said that homosexuality is immoral."

Weird I never heard God say this. Just a translation of a book that serves as the text of one of the world's hundreds of religions. Also funny how we are never permitted to ask "Why" this is so. Maybe it's because ancient hebrews feared STDs? Or wanted to maintain control of their property (women)? Or perhaps because they wanted to be different than their oppressors (Greeks, Egyptians, Romans), or perhaps because they wanted to make sure people were copulating to make more workers and more soldiers for their kingdom.

Nah never mind. Never are we to question why the Great Spirit wants to put gay people into a concentration camp. Never are we to question.

"There are good people everywhere, but they can generally do little."

The "Good" people are people, and have every bit the capability and power of doing good as evil people of doing evil. The reason they don't is because they are more scared than they are good. They are more obedient than they are good. They are happy to serve the evil as long as they are comfortable.

The good do little only when they are little good at all.

This in of itself is merely a straw man against religion, or at least, God. Saying God wants to put gay people in concentration camps is one of the worst red herrings I've seen used in NSG.

How is it a strawman? It is the majority opinion of the most powerful Christian churches in the world. Muslim too.

Is being gay a sin? Is hell not the place for sinners? Is hell a place of eternal conscious torment?

If you believe those things then the fact is you want to put gay people into a concentration camp after they die forever.

[Daemonkin of Corn]

One interesting thing I notice getting pointed out here often is that homosexual is sinful and immoral. OK, sure, maybe it is. But to that I say "so what?" In Christianity, it is made perfectly clear that all humans are sinners and are imperfect by nature. God knows that. It's why Jesus died on the cross for us. By his death, we now have the option to wear his righteousness before God if you choose to believe in him, allowing us to be perfect when it truly matters most. In other words, Jesus is basically a shower for our sins. It's your choice to use his services.

Anyway, being a follower of Jesus doesn't mean you have to be absolutely flawless in your devotion - the way I see it, it is more than okay to fall over or stumble over yourself while you walk with him. What matters above all else is that you're trying your best despite the flaws that make you human. Whether homosexuality is the stone I and others keep on tripping over while walking with Jesus is not something I am concerned about, because like I said, I believe the devotion is what matters the most.

I agree with this for the most part. There is a necessity in the religion to repent for sins, but that doesnt take away from the fact that in the eyes of God that sinners are redeemable. Its basically the whole point of the religion.

It should also be noted some sins are better dealt with on a personal basis. If you look at a sin like envy, how do you fix that? Its a matter of the heart. Its better for the individual to overcome that themselves or find their own peace with it. Sending them to a equivalent of a gay concentration camp wouldnt make the envy go away.

So you do believe that there is something wrong with gay people and a fundamental part of their identity is bad, because your religion says so.

This is a non-starter.

No one cares, that you forgive them for their "sin". The question is the poor justifications for why it is even considered "sin" to begin with. Because of the the consistent efforts by communities of faith to "fix" this "sin".

If someone was an alcoholic, you would get them help. If someone was a kleptomaniac. You would get them help. If someone is gay, if you view being gay as being in the same moral category, you would do the same.

And it is in this so-called "help" that Christians and others have harmed countless people. Brutally. And they accept ZERO responsibility for the harm they have done.

[Greater Agnolia]

This in of itself is merely a straw man against religion, or at least, God. Saying God wants to put gay people in concentration camps is one of the worst red herrings I've seen used in NSG.

How is it a strawman? It is the majority opinion of the most powerful Christian churches in the world. Muslim too.

Is being gay a sin? Is hell not the place for sinners? Is hell a place of eternal conscious torment?

If you believe those things then the fact is you want to put gay people into a concentration camp after they die forever.

Well no … there’s nothing from The Bible that says that God wants to send gay people into concentration camps after they die forever, and anyways, according to Christianity, everyone is born as a sinner, so your whole point is a useless point

[Daemonkin of Corn]

How is it a strawman? It is the majority opinion of the most powerful Christian churches in the world. Muslim too.

Is being gay a sin? Is hell not the place for sinners? Is hell a place of eternal conscious torment?

If you believe those things then the fact is you want to put gay people into a concentration camp after they die forever.

Well no … there’s nothing from The Bible that says that God wants to send gay people into concentration camps after they die forever, and anyways, according to Christianity, everyone is born as a sinner, so your whole point is a useless point

It is not useless. The belief that being gay, having consensual sexual relationships with the same sex, is somehow "immoral" in any way has caused pain and death and misery for centuries. This is an undeniable fact.

And no one is held responsible.

Saying "oh everyone is born a sinner" is a worthless platitude. Clearly some sins are more important to christians than others, since they have spent significant capital on making sure that gay people are as miserable as possible. Again this is historical and observable fact.

"according to Christianity, everyone is born as a sinner, so your whole point is a useless point"

Yes and thus they only want to send.. *checks notes* "Everyone who isn't a christian and who doesn't submit to our dogmatic control" to a concentration camp forever.

Oh yeah that's much better.

[Floofybit]

How is it a strawman? It is the majority opinion of the most powerful Christian churches in the world. Muslim too.

Is being gay a sin? Is hell not the place for sinners? Is hell a place of eternal conscious torment?

If you believe those things then the fact is you want to put gay people into a concentration camp after they die forever.

Well no … there’s nothing from The Bible that says that God wants to send gay people into concentration camps after they die forever, and anyways, according to Christianity, everyone is born as a sinner, so your whole point is a useless point

True. I came out swinging at the doctor and stealing medical supplies

[New Faith]

Well no … there’s nothing from The Bible that says that God wants to send gay people into concentration camps after they die forever, and anyways, according to Christianity, everyone is born as a sinner, so your whole point is a useless point

True. I came out swinging at the doctor and stealing medical supplies

No sin detected. You were only doing your duty.

[Holy Tedalonia]

I agree with this for the most part. There is a necessity in the religion to repent for sins, but that doesnt take away from the fact that in the eyes of God that sinners are redeemable. Its basically the whole point of the religion.

It should also be noted some sins are better dealt with on a personal basis. If you look at a sin like envy, how do you fix that? Its a matter of the heart. Its better for the individual to overcome that themselves or find their own peace with it. Sending them to a equivalent of a gay concentration camp wouldnt make the envy go away.

So you do believe that there is something wrong with gay people and a fundamental part of their identity is bad, because your religion says so.

Everybody is in the wrong, thats what the Bible is about. If you find no problem with yourself in the Bible, than you carry the sin of pride. We are all sinners.

This is a non-starter.

No one cares, that you forgive them for their "sin". The question is the poor justifications for why it is even considered "sin" to begin with. Because of the the consistent efforts by communities of faith to "fix" this "sin".

Its not my personal realm of focus, but yeah people try to help things that they truly have no capacity to handle.

Acknowledging it as a sin isnt the same as condemning it though.

If someone was an alcoholic, you would get them help. If someone was a kleptomaniac. You would get them help. If someone is gay, if you view being gay as being in the same moral category, you would do the same.

And it is in this so-called "help" that Christians and others have harmed countless people. Brutally. And they accept ZERO responsibility for the harm they have done.

For some of the bibles teachings theres simply no guidebook or class you can take. Take that part where if you look at another man's wife with lustful thoughts is adultery. Do you really think such a sin can be 'helped'? It can't, because it exists for you yourself to set the standard God wants you to live up to. Not your fellow man.

[Ci Arovannea]

have we stopped to think about whether these "lost lambs" actually want your help

[Daemonkin of Corn]

So you do believe that there is something wrong with gay people and a fundamental part of their identity is bad, because your religion says so.

Everybody is in the wrong, thats what the Bible is about. If you find no problem with yourself in the Bible, than you carry the sin of pride. We are all sinners.

This is a non-starter.

No one cares, that you forgive them for their "sin". The question is the poor justifications for why it is even considered "sin" to begin with. Because of the the consistent efforts by communities of faith to "fix" this "sin".

Its not my personal realm of focus, but yeah people try to help things that they truly have no capacity to handle.

Acknowledging it as a sin isnt the same as condemning it though.

If someone was an alcoholic, you would get them help. If someone was a kleptomaniac. You would get them help. If someone is gay, if you view being gay as being in the same moral category, you would do the same.

And it is in this so-called "help" that Christians and others have harmed countless people. Brutally. And they accept ZERO responsibility for the harm they have done.

For some of the bibles teachings theres simply no guidebook or class you can take. Take that part where if you look at another man's wife with lustful thoughts is adultery. Do you really think such a sin can be 'helped'? It can't, because it exists for you yourself to set the standard God wants you to live up to. Not your fellow man.

It can obviously be helped and it ought to be, especially when it is deleterious to themselves and the people around them. Me looking at another persons relationship (Another man's wife is sexist verbiage, she is a woman in a marriage. She is no ones personal property) is not the same as looking at a single person who is available for a relationship with me who happens to be the same sex.

In the logical nonsense christians have where they insist again and again needlessly that homosexuality is a sin they find themselves again and again faced with the simple fact that the only possible justification for calling it such is "because they said so".

Why? Why do they insist on saying so?

Because prejudice against gay people have been a political boom for an imperial religion to use against it's enemies and to control the lives of it's people. Gay people are a wonderful scapegoat for power. A wonderful insecurity to cultivate in the hearts of the citizen. A wonderful excuse to get rid of inconvenient people to the regime.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Everybody is in the wrong, thats what the Bible is about. If you find no problem with yourself in the Bible, than you carry the sin of pride. We are all sinners.


Its not my personal realm of focus, but yeah people try to help things that they truly have no capacity to handle.

Acknowledging it as a sin isnt the same as condemning it though.


For some of the bibles teachings theres simply no guidebook or class you can take. Take that part where if you look at another man's wife with lustful thoughts is adultery. Do you really think such a sin can be 'helped'? It can't, because it exists for you yourself to set the standard God wants you to live up to. Not your fellow man.

It can obviously be helped and it ought to be, especially when it is deleterious to themselves and the people around them. Me looking at another persons relationship (Another man's wife is sexist verbiage, she is a woman in a marriage. She is no ones personal property) is not the same as looking at a single person who is available for a relationship with me who happens to be the same sex.

You're not explaining how that can be dealt with externally. It can certainly be helped internally because the person can set himself to a standard. But how could I help you from thinking about someone lustfully? I can't. How do you help someone from their envy? How do you stop someone from hating?

There is a conclusion to be made that there are sins that exist that fundamentally can only be solved through a person's own self discipline and their own willingness to discipline themselves.

In the logical nonsense christians have where they insist again and again needlessly that homosexuality is a sin they find themselves again and again faced with the simple fact that the only possible justification for calling it such is "because they said so".

Why? Why do they insist on saying so?

I mean it does say it in the bible, but to go beyond that. God frowns on masturbation and fornication too. Two sins that arguably have more relevance and greater weight imo. Especially given the audience Christianity tends to hold.

[Daemonkin of Corn]

It can obviously be helped and it ought to be, especially when it is deleterious to themselves and the people around them. Me looking at another persons relationship (Another man's wife is sexist verbiage, she is a woman in a marriage. She is no ones personal property) is not the same as looking at a single person who is available for a relationship with me who happens to be the same sex.

You're not explaining how that can be dealt with externally. It can certainly be helped internally because the person can set himself to a standard. But how could I help you from thinking about someone lustfully? I can't. How do you help someone from their envy? How do you stop someone from hating?

There is a conclusion to be made that there are sins that exist that fundamentally can only be solved through a person's own self discipline and their own willingness to discipline themselves.

In the logical nonsense christians have where they insist again and again needlessly that homosexuality is a sin they find themselves again and again faced with the simple fact that the only possible justification for calling it such is "because they said so".

Why? Why do they insist on saying so?

I mean it does say it in the bible, but to go beyond that. God frowns on masturbation and fornication too. Two sins that arguably have more relevance and greater weight imo. Especially given the audience Christianity tends to hold.

Perhaps if those sins have greater relevance and weight (Again comparing masturbation and fornication to consensual married homosexual sex is fucking insane) then perhaps Christians should spend their considerable capital and political clout to combat those instead of continuing to harass, demean, dehumanize and disenfranchise gay people.

Call it a strawman if you like. I am just telling you what I see when I look outside.

[Bienenhalde]

I would say stigmatizing non reproductive sex is amoral, and by becoming more permissive of the activity, we're actually reaching a higher moral standard.

A stigmatization that has led to the murders of likely millions of gay people over the last five hundred years.

Realistically it seems like some portion of the heterosexual population will hate us no matter what, with or without religion. We just need to find a way to cope the best we can and it seems to me that celibacy is helpful in that regard because it is better not to create any suspicion that we might actually be guilty of wrongdoing.

[Bienenhalde]

have we stopped to think about whether these "lost lambs" actually want your help

Personally, I do not want the help of so-called "allies" and queer activists who wish to destroy my religion.

[Necroghastia]

A stigmatization that has led to the murders of likely millions of gay people over the last five hundred years.

Realistically it seems like some portion of the heterosexual population will hate us no matter what, with or without religion. We just need to find a way to cope the best we can and it seems to me that celibacy is helpful in that regard because it is better not to create any suspicion that we might actually be guilty of wrongdoing.

What wrongdoing are you even talking about?

have we stopped to think about whether these "lost lambs" actually want your help

Personally, I do not want the help of so-called "allies" and queer activists who wish to destroy my religion.

?????

[Daemonkin of Corn]

A stigmatization that has led to the murders of likely millions of gay people over the last five hundred years.

Realistically it seems like some portion of the heterosexual population will hate us no matter what, with or without religion. We just need to find a way to cope the best we can and it seems to me that celibacy is helpful in that regard because it is better not to create any suspicion that we might actually be guilty of wrongdoing.

Gay people having sex is not wrongdoing unless it is nonconsensual.

Accept this fact.

There are four possible ways that someone could contradict this:

1: Someone doesn't believe in ethics and morality and only follows the doctrine of a religion absent of any human reason or critical thinking. These people are dangerous. Especially when combined with #2.

2: An insane person who for whatever reason chose homosexuality and the hatred of homosexuality as their special interest. Perhaps they are a repressed homosexual themselves. Perhaps they are projecting because they have truly abominable sexual interests I won't name here. There have been many and they have wrought horrors upon the earth.

3: A bigot who has been taught by a trusted person (perhaps a parent or other authority) who was #1 or #2 or #4.

4: A cynical opportunist that uses fear of homosexuals to reap horror upon the world for their own self interest. They are often politicians and/or pastors. Sometimes they morph into #2 when the cognitive dissonance hits too hard. When you act like a monster for expediency's sake it's only a matter of time until that just becomes who you are.

[Ci Arovannea]

ngl this suuuuuuure didnt cross my mind when i was with my gf over christmas break

its just... why bother?

[New Faith]

have we stopped to think about whether these "lost lambs" actually want your help

Personally, I do not want the help of so-called "allies" and queer activists who wish to destroy my religion.

What denomination are you?

I did look but I couldn't find it

[Azzata]

Interesting article for anyone curious about practicing Jewish LGBTQ people: https://www.ynetnews.com/jewish-world/a ... b1osgodbzx

[Greater Agnolia]

Well no … there’s nothing from The Bible that says that God wants to send gay people into concentration camps after they die forever, and anyways, according to Christianity, everyone is born as a sinner, so your whole point is a useless point

It is not useless. The belief that being gay, having consensual sexual relationships with the same sex, is somehow "immoral" in any way has caused pain and death and misery for centuries. This is an undeniable fact.

And no one is held responsible.

Saying "oh everyone is born a sinner" is a worthless platitude. Clearly some sins are more important to christians than others, since they have spent significant capital on making sure that gay people are as miserable as possible. Again this is historical and observable fact.

"according to Christianity, everyone is born as a sinner, so your whole point is a useless point"

Yes and thus they only want to send.. *checks notes* "Everyone who isn't a christian and who doesn't submit to our dogmatic control" to a concentration camp forever.

Oh yeah that's much better.

I mean, well yes, you are partially right here I’ll admit, like yes, I consider the claims of homosexuality as a sin to be dogmatic foolishness and refusal to recognise the right to free love, but regardless, most Christian denominations operate under the basis of hating the sin and loving the sinner, and yes, it is true that more focus is placed on homosexuality, but it does not mean that Christianity officially considers homosexuality as a greater “sin” than for example greed since they consider all types of sins to be equal in the context of rebellion against God and in the potential for forgiveness from God, and also, I would really like you to provide any actual evidence backing up your claims that all non-Christians are to be sent to concentration camps in the afterlife according to Christianity. Lastly, I want to mention this as well, some Christian denominations, mainly from Protestantism have stopped considering homosexuality as a “sin” altogether

[Daemonkin of Corn]

It is not useless. The belief that being gay, having consensual sexual relationships with the same sex, is somehow "immoral" in any way has caused pain and death and misery for centuries. This is an undeniable fact.

And no one is held responsible.

Saying "oh everyone is born a sinner" is a worthless platitude. Clearly some sins are more important to christians than others, since they have spent significant capital on making sure that gay people are as miserable as possible. Again this is historical and observable fact.

"according to Christianity, everyone is born as a sinner, so your whole point is a useless point"

Yes and thus they only want to send.. *checks notes* "Everyone who isn't a christian and who doesn't submit to our dogmatic control" to a concentration camp forever.

Oh yeah that's much better.

I mean, well yes, you are partially right here I’ll admit, like yes, I consider the claims of homosexuality as a sin to be dogmatic foolishness and refusal to recognise the right to free love, but regardless, most Christian denominations operate under the basis of hating the sin and loving the sinner, and yes, it is true that more focus is placed on homosexuality, but it does not mean that Christianity officially considers homosexuality as a greater “sin” than for example greed since they consider all types of sins to be equal in the context of rebellion against God and in the potential for forgiveness from God, and also, I would really like you to provide any actual evidence backing up your claims that all non-Christians are to be sent to concentration camps in the afterlife according to Christianity. Lastly, I want to mention this as well, some Christian denominations, mainly from Protestantism have stopped considering homosexuality as a “sin” altogether

They operate under that basis because they are too cowardly to face the contradictions within their dogma.

"I would really like you to provide any actual evidence backing up your claims that all non-Christians are to be sent to concentration camps in the afterlife according to Christianity."

Do the majority of Christian denominations believe that hell is a place of eternal conscious torment?
Do the majority of Christian denominations believe that in order to be saved from hell you must accept Jesus Christ as YOUR LORD and personal savior?
If both of those are yes, then one must forgive me for logically concluding that the majority of Christians believe that everyone outside their religion will be condemned to eternal conscious torment (AKA a magical concentration camp) forever.

ALL Hindus. ALL Muslims. ALL everyone that is not within their spiritual tribe. ALL everyone who does not accept their metaphysical king as their own.

[Holy Tedalonia]

Wait till he finds out these other religions have a 'magical concentration camp' too.