UK Politics Thread: The Mandelson Effect

[East Dolinia]

The topic of "how 'muslimavoviches' are untermenschen" is absolutely useless, off-topic, ridiculous and always raised in bad faith.

Please read my posts again and again until you can understand the difference between criticizing an idea and hating a race.

[Ifreann]

No it's not.

Yes it is.
Especially when it comes to the protests recently and what people think about Islam.
You could call it the rise of islamophobia or the rise of racism.
The debate intensifies when talking about the grooming gangs often in the context of how much did their religion play into what happend.

That you people hate Muslims and want them out of the country, less a few "one of the good ones" that you might make exceptions for to soothe your conscience, does not mean that Islam is a major topic of discourse. No more than the Jewish Question was ever really about Judaism.

[-Britain-]

No it's not.

Yes it is.
Especially when it comes to the protests recently and what people think about Islam.
You could call it the rise of islamophobia or the rise of racism.
The debate intensifies when talking about the grooming gangs often in the context of how much did their religion play into what happend.

The organised paedophilia you're referring to involved men were British-Asian, an ethnic minority most of whom are Muslim. But not all British-Asians are religious, and they were certainly not practicing Muslims - a Muslim wouldn't have sex with an unmarried woman, and he definitely wouldn't marry a non-Muslim female. They were perverts who raped children because they're attracted to children. Paedophilia has no ethnic and cultural boundaries. There were white men involved in organised paedophilia in Cornwall in 2010, but this case received little media attention and commentary. Nor did one in my town, where a group of twenty-one people, including women, were abusing young children to produce child pornography over many years. They were all white. Yet, compared to the angry reactions to the abuse in Rotherham and Telford, there seems little outrage among locals at what has happened here.
So, what's the real issue here for some people, such as tin-pot Tommy Robinson and the rest of the loathsome far-right crew? Is it really a critique on the incompatibility of Islam with the so-called Judaeo-Christian values of the western world, or is a hidden racist agenda behind it?

[Greater Britannian Realm]

Yes it is.
Especially when it comes to the protests recently and what people think about Islam.
You could call it the rise of islamophobia or the rise of racism.
The debate intensifies when talking about the grooming gangs often in the context of how much did their religion play into what happend.

The organised paedophilia you're referring to involved men were British-Asian, an ethnic minority most of whom are Muslim. But not all British-Asians are religious, and they were certainly not practicing Muslims - a Muslim wouldn't have sex with an unmarried woman, and he definitely wouldn't marry a non-Muslim female. They were perverts who raped children because they're attracted to children. Paedophilia has no ethnic boundaries. There were white men involved in organised paedophilia in Cornwall in 2010, but this case received little media attention and commentary. Nor did one in my town, where a group of twenty-one people, including women, were abusing young children to produce child pornography over many years. They were all white. Yet, compared to the angry reactions to the abuse in Rotherham and Telford, there seems little outrage among locals at what has happened here.
So, what's the real issue here for some people, such as tin-pot Tommy Robinson and his crew? Is it really a critique on the incompatibility of Islam with the so-called Judaeo-Christian values of the western world, or is a hidden racist agenda behind it?

Well sure.
We dont know the true factors into what made them undertake such depraved acts.
Im also not here to defend tommy Robinson either since I dont agree with his past.
And yeah no one is saying that such acts are exclusive to non whites.

The issue brought up with the grooming gang scandle however
Is less to do with the groomers themselves and more to do with how poor the response to it was by the authorities.
The cover ups, the lack of action, the arrests of parents and victims.
Why did this happen and was it due to the fear of being called racist is the question many ask.
And hopefully a proper inquiry can answer that.
Issue is labour have already shown their distaste for doing one
Iv already pointed out examples of that though.

[East Dolinia]

Yes it is.
Especially when it comes to the protests recently and what people think about Islam.
You could call it the rise of islamophobia or the rise of racism.
The debate intensifies when talking about the grooming gangs often in the context of how much did their religion play into what happend.

The organised paedophilia you're referring to involved men were British-Asian, an ethnic minority most of whom are Muslim. But not all British-Asians are religious, and they were certainly not practicing Muslims - a Muslim wouldn't have sex with an unmarried woman, and he definitely wouldn't marry a non-Muslim female. They were perverts who raped children because they're attracted to children. Paedophilia has no ethnic boundaries. There were white men involved in organised paedophilia in Cornwall in 2010, but this case received little media attention and commentary. Nor did one in my town, where a group of twenty-one people, including women, were abusing young children to produce child pornography over many years. They were all white. Yet, compared to the angry reactions to the abuse in Rotherham and Telford, there seems little outrage among locals at what has happened here.
So, what's the real issue here for some people, such as tin-pot Tommy Robinson and his crew? Is it really a critique on the incompatibility of Islam with the so-called Judaeo-Christian values of the western world, or is a hidden racist agenda behind it?

With regard to your question about it being permissible for a master to be intimate with his slave woman, the answer is that that is because Allaah has permitted it. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And those who guard their chastity (i.e. private parts, from illegal sexual acts)6. Except from their wives or (the slaves) that their right hands possess, for then, they are free from blame” [al-Mu’minoon 23:6; al-Ma’aarij 70:30]

Despite this protection against one form of sexual exploitation, female slaves do not have the right to grant or deny sexual access to themselves. Instead, the Qur’an permits men to have sexual access to “what their right hands possess,” meaning female captives or slaves (Q. 23.5-6; 70.29-30). This was widely accepted and practiced among early Muslims; the Prophet Muhammad, for example, kept a slave-concubine (Mariya the Copt) who was given to him as a gift by the Roman governor of Alexandria. ... In the Sudan, Christian captives in the ongoing civil war are often enslaved, and female prisoners are often used sexually, with their Muslim captors claiming that Islamic law grants them permission.

From the late 1980s until 2013, group-based child sexual exploitation affected an estimated 1,400 girls ... . ...
In 2009, the Department for Education began using the term child sexual exploitation (CSE) to replace the term child prostitution, which implied consent. CSE is a form of child sexual abuse in which children are offered something—monetary or otherwise—for sexual activity, with violence and intimidation common.[38][39][38] CSE includes online grooming, and localised grooming which typically happens in a public place.[38][40][41] Targets of abuse sometimes include children cared after by the local authority, as was particularly common in the Rotherham case.[42] In CSE, children may be contacted initially by another child, who hands the target to an older man. The adult then enters into a "relationship" with the target, but often the girl is used for sex by a larger group, in some cases leading to group rape. Trafficking is common, with the child "sold" to other groups. According to one victim, targets are preferably 12–14; the group loses interest as the child ages and expects the child to supply other, younger children.

What human being could you sell other than a slave? So Rotherham victims were enslaved. The rape of female slaves is halal. It's all halal. Allahu akbar!

[Frinor]

No, it's not antitheism, just racism. It's disingenuous to present the motte of antitheism with the bailey of "all Islam is slavery, mutilation, murder, holy war, inferior, dangerous and less developed".

Are Muslims a race?

The race or populations in question are Central Asians, South Asians, Southeast Asians, West Asians and North Africans which you are being racist towards while using 'criticism of Islam or religion' as a shield in order to deflect.

No, it's not antitheism, just racism. It's disingenuous to present the motte of antitheism with the bailey of "all Islam is slavery, mutilation, murder, holy war, inferior, dangerous and less developed".

I'll surprise you, but the antitheistic position is precisely that religion is slavery, mutilation, murder, holy war, inferior, dangerous and less developed.

It's also incorrect and no less of a disingenuous position.

What human being could you sell other than a slave? So Rotherham victims were enslaved. The rape of female slaves is halal. It's all halal. Allahu akbar!

"My specific and entirely negative interpretation of Islam is the correct one, even if virtually no Muslim in the world adheres to it! Why am I being called racist?"

[-Britain-]

The organised paedophilia you're referring to involved men were British-Asian, an ethnic minority most of whom are Muslim. But not all British-Asians are religious, and they were certainly not practicing Muslims - a Muslim wouldn't have sex with an unmarried woman, and he definitely wouldn't marry a non-Muslim female. They were perverts who raped children because they're attracted to children. Paedophilia has no ethnic boundaries. There were white men involved in organised paedophilia in Cornwall in 2010, but this case received little media attention and commentary. Nor did one in my town, where a group of twenty-one people, including women, were abusing young children to produce child pornography over many years. They were all white. Yet, compared to the angry reactions to the abuse in Rotherham and Telford, there seems little outrage among locals at what has happened here.
So, what's the real issue here for some people, such as tin-pot Tommy Robinson and his crew? Is it really a critique on the incompatibility of Islam with the so-called Judaeo-Christian values of the western world, or is a hidden racist agenda behind it?

With regard to your question about it being permissible for a master to be intimate with his slave woman, the answer is that that is because Allaah has permitted it. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“And those who guard their chastity (i.e. private parts, from illegal sexual acts)6. Except from their wives or (the slaves) that their right hands possess, for then, they are free from blame” [al-Mu’minoon 23:6; al-Ma’aarij 70:30]

Despite this protection against one form of sexual exploitation, female slaves do not have the right to grant or deny sexual access to themselves. Instead, the Qur’an permits men to have sexual access to “what their right hands possess,” meaning female captives or slaves (Q. 23.5-6; 70.29-30). This was widely accepted and practiced among early Muslims; the Prophet Muhammad, for example, kept a slave-concubine (Mariya the Copt) who was given to him as a gift by the Roman governor of Alexandria. ... In the Sudan, Christian captives in the ongoing civil war are often enslaved, and female prisoners are often used sexually, with their Muslim captors claiming that Islamic law grants them permission.

From the late 1980s until 2013, group-based child sexual exploitation affected an estimated 1,400 girls ... . ...
In 2009, the Department for Education began using the term child sexual exploitation (CSE) to replace the term child prostitution, which implied consent. CSE is a form of child sexual abuse in which children are offered something—monetary or otherwise—for sexual activity, with violence and intimidation common.[38][39][38] CSE includes online grooming, and localised grooming which typically happens in a public place.[38][40][41] Targets of abuse sometimes include children cared after by the local authority, as was particularly common in the Rotherham case.[42] In CSE, children may be contacted initially by another child, who hands the target to an older man. The adult then enters into a "relationship" with the target, but often the girl is used for sex by a larger group, in some cases leading to group rape. Trafficking is common, with the child "sold" to other groups. According to one victim, targets are preferably 12–14; the group loses interest as the child ages and expects the child to supply other, younger children.

What human being could you sell other than a slave? So Rotherham victims were enslaved. The rape of female slaves is halal. It's all halal. Allahu akbar!

You know slavery as it's described in the Qur'an has been illegal in Britain since the nineteenth century, don't you?

[East Dolinia]

Are Muslims a race?

The race or populations in question are Central Asians, South Asians, Southeast Asians, West Asians and North Africans which you are being racist towards while using 'criticism of Islam or religion' as a shield in order to deflect.

So, you've finally come up with a thesis, but still no evidence or reasoning to support it.

No, it's not antitheism, just racism. It's disingenuous to present the motte of antitheism with the bailey of "all Islam is slavery, mutilation, murder, holy war, inferior, dangerous and less developed".

I'll surprise you, but the antitheistic position is precisely that religion is slavery, mutilation, murder, holy war, inferior, dangerous and less developed.

It's also incorrect and no less of a disingenuous position.

Again, no evidence or reasoning. Let me imitate you, and state the contrary of your thesis: It is a correct and honest position.

What human being could you sell other than a slave? So Rotherham victims were enslaved. The rape of female slaves is halal. It's all halal. Allahu akbar!

"My specific and entirely negative interpretation of Islam is the correct one, even if virtually no Muslim in the world adheres to it! Why am I being called racist?"

On one topic: the death penalty for Apostasy as mandated in Islam

The classical shariah punishment for apostasy comes from Sahih ("authentic") Hadith rather than the Quran.[65][66] Writing in the Encyclopedia of Islam, Heffening holds that contrary to the Quran, "in traditions [i.e. hadith], there is little echo of these punishments in the next world... and instead, we have in many traditions a new element, the death penalty."[43]

Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

— Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:83:17, see also Sahih Muslim, 16:4152, Sahih Muslim, 16:4154
Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.'"

— Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:260Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:84:57Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:89:271Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:84:58Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:84:64
A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu'adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu'adh asked, "What is wrong with this (man)?" Abu Musa replied, "He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism." Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His Apostle."

— Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:89:271

"virtually no Muslim in the world adheres to it"

A survey based on face-to-face interviews conducted in 80 languages by the Pew Research Center between 2008 and 2012 among thousands of Muslims in many countries, found varied views on the death penalty for those who leave Islam to become an atheist or to convert to another religion.[33] In some countries (especially in Central Asia, Southeast Europe, and Turkey), support for the death penalty for apostasy was confined to a tiny fringe; in other countries (especially in the Arab world and South Asia) majorities and large minorities support the death penalty. ... Overall, the figures in the 2012 survey suggest that the percentage of Muslims in the countries surveyed who approve the death penalty for Muslims who leave Islam to become an atheist or convert to another religion varies widely, from 0.4% (in Kazakhstan) to 78.2% (in Afghanistan).[33] The Governments of the Gulf Cooperation Council (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain and Kuwait) did not permit Pew Research to survey nationwide public opinion on apostasy in 2010 or 2012. The survey also did not include China, India, Syria, or West African countries such as Nigeria.

But let me ask you - who has interpreted Islam correctly?

[East Dolinia]

What human being could you sell other than a slave? So Rotherham victims were enslaved. The rape of female slaves is halal. It's all halal. Allahu akbar!

You know slavery as it's described in the Qur'an has been illegal in Britain since the nineteenth century, don't you?

Yes, but this is irrelevant. Slavery was illegal in Iraq and Syria when ISIS practiced it.

[Saor Alba]

You know slavery as it's described in the Qur'an has been illegal in Britain since the nineteenth century, don't you?

I presume that the point East Dolinia is making is that they value (their interpretation of) their religion over civil law. Sure, it's illegal, but they did it anyway. I do agree that we should reframe the "grooming gangs" as more than just "groomers". It was sex trafficking and in many cases it constituted sexual slavery.

But not all British-Asians are religious, and they were certainly not practicing Muslims - a Muslim wouldn't have sex with an unmarried woman, and he definitely wouldn't marry a non-Muslim female. They were perverts who raped children because they're attracted to children.

The perpetrators often told the victims that they deserved it for being white and non-Muslim. It was not just a case of them being attracted to children - I am sure many of them were - but a psychological fixation with committing tribalistic sexual violence. Sexual violence has always been a powerful weapon. During war it is used as a tool for ethnic cleansing and humiliation because the psychological impact that it has on the victims and their communities is massive.

There were white men involved in organised paedophilia in Cornwall in 2010, but this case received little media attention and commentary. Nor did one in my town, where a group of twenty-one people, including women, were abusing young children to produce child pornography over many years. They were all white. Yet, compared to the angry reactions to the abuse in Rotherham and Telford, there seems little outrage among locals at what has happened here.

The reason that so much attention is given to Rotherham and Telford is perhaps the same reason that so much attention was given to Catholic clerical abuse, Jimmy Saville, or Jeffrey Epstein: the scale of it. Nobody disputes that white people perpetrate group based child sexual exploitation too, it's just that there are very few instances of it in modern times that compare to the "grooming gangs". Further, we know that public institutions such as social workers, local government, and the police failed miserably at handling the grooming gangs and in some cases directly facilitated their child sexual exploitation.

Is it really a critique on the incompatibility of Islam with the so-called Judaeo-Christian values of the western world, or is a hidden racist agenda behind it?

It is hard to detach race from the grooming gangs when the perpetrators were targeting (mostly) white, non-Muslim girls because they were white and non-Muslim. It's hard to detach religion from it when they forced some of the girls to convert to Islam. It's hard to detach race from it when they said the girls deserved it for being white.

[East Dolinia]

Thank you. I didn't know these horrid details. May we never forget. May we never fear speaking the truth, and doing what's necessary to defend our people.

[The Huskar Social Union]

Tonk News strikes again:

Challenger 3 upgrade programme is being semi-shelved.

https://defence-blog.com/uk-delays-challenger-3-battle-tank-production/

Presumably due to BAE failures in delivering "other" programmes to UK MOD, along with the colossal fuck up that is Ajax from GDLS UK, there is no "set timeline" and will be performance based instead.

This effectively means that BAE will be required to convert the 8 vehicles they have assigned to them for upgrade, test them, prove them and present them to MOD for assessment before they main programme will be permitted to start.

Can't have a programme behind schedule if you bin the schedule! There may be a substantial amount of milestone payment witholding involved in this arrangement - BAE Land may be forced to work at cost until delivering the first 8 units to acceptable standard.

I mean i guess thats better than being completely scrapped but still a mess.

[The Huskar Social Union]

You can talk about issues regarding to grooming gangs without once again turning this thread into the utter fucking trainwreck it currently is due to the same handful of racist trolls that you continuously feed over and over and over. East Dolinia is one of them, stop fucking engaging with him, i am so sick and fucking tired of repeating this over and over the last few months.

Like these threads have went up and down in quality before but this is easily the worst this thread has been in years.

[The Huskar Social Union]

UK to offer military 'gap year' to boost recruitment

A "gap year" scheme to give school and college leavers a taste of the Army, Royal Navy or RAF without a long term commitment, is to be launched by the government.

The course is aimed at under-25s and is part of efforts to solve long-term recruitment and retention problems in the armed forces.

Applications to be part of the first of 150 recruits open in the spring, with plans for that number to grow to 1,000 young people a year. The programme will be paid but officials have yet to announce a salary.

Defence Secretary John Healey said the scheme would offer young people "incredible skills and training". However the Conservatives criticised the small number of recruits.

Recruits to the "gap year" programme will not be deployed on active operations, and the content of the courses is still said to be in development.

The Army scheme would see recruits receive 13 weeks of basic training as part of a two-year placement, while the Navy scheme would last a year and provide general training for sailors, according to the i newspaper, external. The RAF scheme is less developed.

Under a separate scheme, The Army currently offers 30 gap year placements for young people before, during or immediately after university and only for those considering officer training - though fewer than 10 people enrolled in the last academic year.

The new gap year scheme is expected to be open more widely.

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) says those who join the programme will learn leadership, teamwork and problem solving skills to set them up "for life" whether they pursue a career in the armed forces or not.

Officials hope the scheme will bring a broader range of people into the forces and that some decide to stay to pursue a career in the military.

"As families come together at this time of year, and young people think about their futures, I want the outstanding opportunities on offer in our armed forces to be part of that conversation in homes across the UK," Healey said.

The defence secretary echoed his remarks when announcing the government's defence strategy in the summer, in which he said the threats the UK now faces require a "new era" of defence.

Healey also said the scheme was part of the government's "whole-of-society approach" to defence and deterrence, including preventing a potential confrontation with Russia.

Shadow defence secretary James Cartlidge said: "As ever with Labour, the reality does not match the spin.

"A scheme involving just 150 participants is barely a pilot, let alone the 'whole-of-society' response they claim to be delivering."

He added that, while the Australian scheme this one was based on "has its strengths", the "tiny numbers do nothing for our war readiness".

Cartlidge said the Tories were "serious about defending our country", pointing to its proposal to move up to £50bn from climate and science funds into defence.

The "gap year" scheme was a recommendation of the government's strategic defence review in June inspired by a similar scheme by the Australian Defence Force (ADF), which is open to young people aged between 17 and 24.

That scheme has been in operation for more than a decade, with applicants offered the chance "get a feel for military life while enjoying unique experiences you can't find anywhere else".

In 2023, 664 people enlisted, with a little more than half then going into a permanent role in the nation's military.

The UK's "gap year" programme is part of several proposals to boost the number of people with military experience. The government also hopes to increase the number of cadets by 30%.

Other European nations - such as France and Germany - have recently re-introduced some form of voluntary national service in response to the threat posed by Russia.

Lord Richard Dannatt, who served as the head of the Army from 2006 to 2009, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that the UK's "gap year" scheme would have an impact "in the margins" when it came to the threat posed by Russia.

He said it would "play a little bit towards improving recruiting", adding: "But rather more importantly, it gives a number of people who may well choose a different career path in life some exposure to the armed forces, some exposure to the discipline and problem solving skills."

I personally think its a good idea, France and Germany are mentioned in the article at introducing a voluntary form of national service as well. I actually read a short article about this topic during my lunch break today at work from The Journal.ie about Ireland doing the same thing for the Defence Forces to help bolster recruitment which is what brought it to my attention. Even if they dont go into the military long term they could pick up some skills from the experience and potentially push them other avenues of work they might not have thought of before, although i think the number of 150 places for the pilot scheme is a bit low.

[Fartsniffage]

You can talk about issues regarding to grooming gangs without once again turning this thread into the utter fucking trainwreck it currently is due to the same handful of racist trolls that you continuously feed over and over and over. East Dolinia is one of them, stop fucking engaging with him, i am so sick and fucking tired of repeating this over and over the last few months.

Like these threads have went up and down in quality before but this is easily the worst this thread has been in years.

[Imperializt Russia]

UK to offer military 'gap year' to boost recruitment

A "gap year" scheme to give school and college leavers a taste of the Army, Royal Navy or RAF without a long term commitment, is to be launched by the government.

The course is aimed at under-25s and is part of efforts to solve long-term recruitment and retention problems in the armed forces.

Applications to be part of the first of 150 recruits open in the spring, with plans for that number to grow to 1,000 young people a year. The programme will be paid but officials have yet to announce a salary.

Defence Secretary John Healey said the scheme would offer young people "incredible skills and training". However the Conservatives criticised the small number of recruits.

Recruits to the "gap year" programme will not be deployed on active operations, and the content of the courses is still said to be in development.

The Army scheme would see recruits receive 13 weeks of basic training as part of a two-year placement, while the Navy scheme would last a year and provide general training for sailors, according to the i newspaper, external. The RAF scheme is less developed.

Under a separate scheme, The Army currently offers 30 gap year placements for young people before, during or immediately after university and only for those considering officer training - though fewer than 10 people enrolled in the last academic year.

The new gap year scheme is expected to be open more widely.

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) says those who join the programme will learn leadership, teamwork and problem solving skills to set them up "for life" whether they pursue a career in the armed forces or not.

Officials hope the scheme will bring a broader range of people into the forces and that some decide to stay to pursue a career in the military.

"As families come together at this time of year, and young people think about their futures, I want the outstanding opportunities on offer in our armed forces to be part of that conversation in homes across the UK," Healey said.

The defence secretary echoed his remarks when announcing the government's defence strategy in the summer, in which he said the threats the UK now faces require a "new era" of defence.

Healey also said the scheme was part of the government's "whole-of-society approach" to defence and deterrence, including preventing a potential confrontation with Russia.

Shadow defence secretary James Cartlidge said: "As ever with Labour, the reality does not match the spin.

"A scheme involving just 150 participants is barely a pilot, let alone the 'whole-of-society' response they claim to be delivering."

He added that, while the Australian scheme this one was based on "has its strengths", the "tiny numbers do nothing for our war readiness".

Cartlidge said the Tories were "serious about defending our country", pointing to its proposal to move up to £50bn from climate and science funds into defence.

The "gap year" scheme was a recommendation of the government's strategic defence review in June inspired by a similar scheme by the Australian Defence Force (ADF), which is open to young people aged between 17 and 24.

That scheme has been in operation for more than a decade, with applicants offered the chance "get a feel for military life while enjoying unique experiences you can't find anywhere else".

In 2023, 664 people enlisted, with a little more than half then going into a permanent role in the nation's military.

The UK's "gap year" programme is part of several proposals to boost the number of people with military experience. The government also hopes to increase the number of cadets by 30%.

Other European nations - such as France and Germany - have recently re-introduced some form of voluntary national service in response to the threat posed by Russia.

Lord Richard Dannatt, who served as the head of the Army from 2006 to 2009, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that the UK's "gap year" scheme would have an impact "in the margins" when it came to the threat posed by Russia.

He said it would "play a little bit towards improving recruiting", adding: "But rather more importantly, it gives a number of people who may well choose a different career path in life some exposure to the armed forces, some exposure to the discipline and problem solving skills."

I personally think its a good idea, France and Germany are mentioned in the article at introducing a voluntary form of national service as well. I actually read a short article about this topic during my lunch break today at work from The Journal.ie about Ireland doing the same thing for the Defence Forces to help bolster recruitment which is what brought it to my attention. Even if they dont go into the military long term they could pick up some skills from the experience and potentially push them other avenues of work they might not have thought of before, although i think the number of 150 places for the pilot scheme is a bit low.

I think there's enough "gap yahhr" types in Sandhurst already tbh

I assume I have told this story before, but when I graduated from undergrad and went onto grad school, I wanted to join the local REME Reserve unit to earn money (and gain life skills) while I was on my Masters, since I only had 8 taught weeks for the year and downtime/personal study for the rest.

Mum flipped her lid, said she'd disown me if I did it, I ran out of money, dropped out of grad school and remained unemployed, big brain plays there.

[Frinor]

The race or populations in question are Central Asians, South Asians, Southeast Asians, West Asians and North Africans which you are being racist towards while using 'criticism of Islam or religion' as a shield in order to deflect.

So, you've finally come up with a thesis, but still no evidence or reasoning to support it.

The evidence is your posts I quoted earlier. You can go back and review them at your leisure.

It's also incorrect and no less of a disingenuous position.

Again, no evidence or reasoning. Let me imitate you, and state the contrary of your thesis: It is a correct and honest position.

Good thing I don't have to prove a negative.

What human being could you sell other than a slave? So Rotherham victims were enslaved. The rape of female slaves is halal. It's all halal. Allahu akbar!

"My specific and entirely negative interpretation of Islam is the correct one, even if virtually no Muslim in the world adheres to it! Why am I being called racist?"

On one topic: the death penalty for Apostasy as mandated in Islam

The classical shariah punishment for apostasy comes from Sahih ("authentic") Hadith rather than the Quran.[65][66] Writing in the Encyclopedia of Islam, Heffening holds that contrary to the Quran, "in traditions [i.e. hadith], there is little echo of these punishments in the next world... and instead, we have in many traditions a new element, the death penalty."[43]

Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims."

— Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:83:17, see also Sahih Muslim, 16:4152, Sahih Muslim, 16:4154
Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.'"

— Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:260Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:84:57Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:89:271Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:84:58Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:84:64
A man embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism. Mu'adh bin Jabal came and saw the man with Abu Musa. Mu'adh asked, "What is wrong with this (man)?" Abu Musa replied, "He embraced Islam and then reverted back to Judaism." Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down unless you kill him (as it is) the verdict of Allah and His Apostle."

— Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:89:271

"virtually no Muslim in the world adheres to it"

A survey based on face-to-face interviews conducted in 80 languages by the Pew Research Center between 2008 and 2012 among thousands of Muslims in many countries, found varied views on the death penalty for those who leave Islam to become an atheist or to convert to another religion.[33] In some countries (especially in Central Asia, Southeast Europe, and Turkey), support for the death penalty for apostasy was confined to a tiny fringe; in other countries (especially in the Arab world and South Asia) majorities and large minorities support the death penalty. ... Overall, the figures in the 2012 survey suggest that the percentage of Muslims in the countries surveyed who approve the death penalty for Muslims who leave Islam to become an atheist or convert to another religion varies widely, from 0.4% (in Kazakhstan) to 78.2% (in Afghanistan).[33] The Governments of the Gulf Cooperation Council (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman, Qatar, Bahrain and Kuwait) did not permit Pew Research to survey nationwide public opinion on apostasy in 2010 or 2012. The survey also did not include China, India, Syria, or West African countries such as Nigeria.

But let me ask you - who has interpreted Islam correctly?

You can ask the Muslims about that as well as the passages you've cherrypicked.

You can talk about issues regarding to grooming gangs without once again turning this thread into the utter fucking trainwreck it currently is due to the same handful of racist trolls that you continuously feed over and over and over. East Dolinia is one of them, stop fucking engaging with him, i am so sick and fucking tired of repeating this over and over the last few months.

Like these threads have went up and down in quality before but this is easily the worst this thread has been in years.

I would appreciate it if the rest of you wouldn't cower and hide, especially considering none of these are hard to clap back on. Argue better and stop being all emotionally invested about it. It's the internet and none of this is tied to your immediate person or real life. The internet is full of people like this who expect people being on the defensive, so go for the jugular and tear everything they have to say apart.

[East Dolinia]

You can talk about issues regarding to grooming gangs without once again turning this thread into the utter fucking trainwreck it currently is due to the same handful of racist trolls that you continuously feed over and over and over. East Dolinia is one of them, stop fucking engaging with him, i am so sick and fucking tired of repeating this over and over the last few months.

Like these threads have went up and down in quality before but this is easily the worst this thread has been in years.

No thesis, argument, or evidence against me. Sad!

[The Huskar Social Union]

You can talk about issues regarding to grooming gangs without once again turning this thread into the utter fucking trainwreck it currently is due to the same handful of racist trolls that you continuously feed over and over and over. East Dolinia is one of them, stop fucking engaging with him, i am so sick and fucking tired of repeating this over and over the last few months.

Like these threads have went up and down in quality before but this is easily the worst this thread has been in years.

Did you just make that or have you had that for a while lmao

UK to offer military 'gap year' to boost recruitmentI personally think its a good idea, France and Germany are mentioned in the article at introducing a voluntary form of national service as well. I actually read a short article about this topic during my lunch break today at work from The Journal.ie about Ireland doing the same thing for the Defence Forces to help bolster recruitment which is what brought it to my attention. Even if they dont go into the military long term they could pick up some skills from the experience and potentially push them other avenues of work they might not have thought of before, although i think the number of 150 places for the pilot scheme is a bit low.

I think there's enough "gap yahhr" types in Sandhurst already tbh

I assume I have told this story before, but when I graduated from undergrad and went onto grad school, I wanted to join the local REME Reserve unit to earn money (and gain life skills) while I was on my Masters, since I only had 8 taught weeks for the year and downtime/personal study for the rest.

Mum flipped her lid, said she'd disown me if I did it, I ran out of money, dropped out of grad school and remained unemployed, big brain plays there.

I dont remember you telling it before personally.

[Frinor]

You can talk about issues regarding to grooming gangs without once again turning this thread into the utter fucking trainwreck it currently is due to the same handful of racist trolls that you continuously feed over and over and over. East Dolinia is one of them, stop fucking engaging with him, i am so sick and fucking tired of repeating this over and over the last few months.

Like these threads have went up and down in quality before but this is easily the worst this thread has been in years.

No thesis, argument, or evidence against me. Sad!

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over your fallacious reasoning. Learn to argue yourself.

[East Dolinia]

So, you've finally come up with a thesis, but still no evidence or reasoning to support it.

The evidence is your posts I quoted earlier. You can go back and review them at your leisure.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Again, no evidence or reasoning. Let me imitate you, and state the contrary of your thesis: It is a correct and honest position.

Good thing I don't have to prove a negative.

I'm attempting to prove a positive. If you want to argue against that, you have to provide an argument.

On one topic: the death penalty for Apostasy as mandated in Islam

"virtually no Muslim in the world adheres to it"

But let me ask you - who has interpreted Islam correctly?

You can ask the Muslims about that as well as the passages you've cherrypicked.

This is from Wikipedia. I didn't cherrypick anything. If you want to argue against me, try actually making an argument, rather than merely insinuating that one may exist.

You can talk about issues regarding to grooming gangs without once again turning this thread into the utter fucking trainwreck it currently is due to the same handful of racist trolls that you continuously feed over and over and over. East Dolinia is one of them, stop fucking engaging with him, i am so sick and fucking tired of repeating this over and over the last few months.

Like these threads have went up and down in quality before but this is easily the worst this thread has been in years.

I would appreciate it if the rest of you wouldn't cower and hide, especially considering none of these are hard to clap back on. Argue better and stop being all emotionally invested about it. It's the internet and none of this is tied to your immediate person or real life. The internet is full of people like this who expect people being on the defensive, so go for the jugular and tear everything they have to say apart.

You've failed to do any of that. You're just casting aspersions.

No thesis, argument, or evidence against me. Sad!

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over your fallacious reasoning. Learn to argue yourself.

Give an example.

[Frinor]

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over your fallacious reasoning. Learn to argue yourself.

Give an example.

You quoted them. You can keep asserting that you're arguing and I'm not, but that doesn't change the fact that the opposite is true. Of course, you will keep asserting the opposite to try to tire your opponents. It's a known tactic. Your bullshit artistry has been called out and you can keep going, if you like. I've already won.

The evidence is your posts I quoted earlier. You can go back and review them at your leisure.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

I can hear you screaming and shouting in rage from behind your screen, so I guess you already picked the secret third option.

[Greater Britannian Realm]

You can talk about issues regarding to grooming gangs without once again turning this thread into the utter fucking trainwreck it currently is due to the same handful of racist trolls that you continuously feed over and over and over. East Dolinia is one of them, stop fucking engaging with him, i am so sick and fucking tired of repeating this over and over the last few months.

Like these threads have went up and down in quality before but this is easily the worst this thread has been in years.

I would appreciate it if the rest of you wouldn't cower and hide, especially considering none of these are hard to clap back on. Argue better and stop being all emotionally invested about it. It's the internet and none of this is tied to your immediate person or real life. The internet is full of people like this who expect people being on the defensive, so go for the jugular and tear everything they have to say apart.

I actually agree with this point here.
Going on and on about lets just ignore them or we should block them is not going to make them go away.
Again its better to debate their ideas than let them use your silence against you.
Defeating their ideas and views in the court of public opinion is the best method for dealing with such ideologies.

[East Dolinia]

Give an example.

You quoted them. You can keep asserting that you're arguing and I'm not, but that doesn't change the fact that the opposite is true. Of course, you will keep asserting the opposite to try to tire your opponents. It's a known tactic. Your bullshit artistry has been called out and you can keep going, if you like. I've already won.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

I can hear you screaming and shouting in rage from behind your screen, so I guess you already picked the secret third option.

No, I'm sitting here very calmly, and I don't know whether you are consciously setting out to waste my time or whether you really believe what you're saying.
update: now I am laughing. It's like Monty Python's Argument Clinic, as I mentioned.
Again, to my recollection, you have not provided any evidence or reasoning in support of your positions.
If you have an argument to make, make the argument.
If you want to cite one of my posts as evidence that I expressed some opinion, cite the post. Don't tell me to go and look for it.

[Frinor]

You quoted them. You can keep asserting that you're arguing and I'm not, but that doesn't change the fact that the opposite is true. Of course, you will keep asserting the opposite to try to tire your opponents. It's a known tactic. Your bullshit artistry has been called out and you can keep going, if you like. I've already won.

I can hear you screaming and shouting in rage from behind your screen, so I guess you already picked the secret third option.

No, I'm sitting here very calmly, and I don't know whether you are consciously setting out to waste my time or whether you really believe what you're saying.
update: now I am laughing. It's like Monty Python's Argument Clinic, as I mentioned.

So calm and collected.

Again, to my recollection, you have not provided any evidence or reasoning in support of your positions.
If you have an argument to make, make the argument.
If you want to cite one of my posts as evidence that I expressed some opinion, cite the post. Don't tell me to go and look for it.

I think you should go look for it, if you're really taking this discussion seriously.