Fascism: Evil? or Misunderstood?

[Cleptonia]

Don't forget bad definitions, appeals to emotion, association fallacies, invalid comparisons and many others. OP's thread title didn't exactly help much there as the entire thread revolves solely around morality instead of ideological content.

Why would you follow an ideology that does not align with your morality?

Sometimes hard-to-make decisions just have to be made. That's just politics in general.

[Humanlonia]

Don't forget bad definitions, appeals to emotion, association fallacies, invalid comparisons and many others. OP's thread title didn't exactly help much there as the entire thread revolves solely around morality instead of ideological content.

Why would you follow an ideology that does not align with your morality?

Sadomasochism, there are no other reasons.

[Balgharia]

Why would you follow an ideology that does not align with your morality?

Sometimes hard-to-make decisions just have to be made. That's just politics in general.

Like genocide?

[Cleptonia]

Sometimes hard-to-make decisions just have to be made. That's just politics in general.

Like genocide?

Bit extreme, but not exactly outside the realm of hard decisions. I sure couldn't make a choice like that.

[DutchFormosa]

Like genocide?

Bit extreme, but not exactly outside the realm of hard decisions. I sure couldn't make a choice like that.

But others can and are willing to.

[Humanlonia]

Like genocide?

Bit extreme, but not exactly outside the realm of hard decisions. I sure couldn't make a choice like that.

It solves nothing, it only makes problems worse. You "pragmatists" are simply incapable of understanding what Machiavelli meant.

[Balgharia]

Like genocide?

Bit extreme, but not exactly outside the realm of hard decisions. I sure couldn't make a choice like that.

Genocide is never necessary to begin with. You're paving the way for Holocaust denial.

[Cleptonia]

Bit extreme, but not exactly outside the realm of hard decisions. I sure couldn't make a choice like that.

Genocide is never necessary to begin with. You're paving the way for Holocaust denial.

Of course not.

[SS DG]

Where have I misdefined them? What simple definition would you give instead? And its an error to lump fascism and nazism in one camp completely because they have significant divergences. For example Mussolini did not target jews before allying with Hitler. Italian soldiers were taking war brides from Ethiopia and did not care at all about their race. Racism is not at all a part of fascism since in a strong state everyone is an ideal citizen first and everything else comes second.

Firstly, fascism means a weak state of incompetent populists with an incentive to engage in corrupt activity. Secondly, these are not exhaustive definitions; they do not define these ideologies. States can be racist but not Nazi. Thirdly, don't lump liberalism in with them. Wait, they all have the word "liberalism" in their names... Fourthly, the Nazis called themselves German fascists, and Mussolini more than agreed.

Yeah you're talking out of your ass NEXT!
Also: Nazism or NSDAP literally means National SOCIALIST Workers Party.
Go read!

[DutchFormosa]

Firstly, fascism means a weak state of incompetent populists with an incentive to engage in corrupt activity. Secondly, these are not exhaustive definitions; they do not define these ideologies. States can be racist but not Nazi. Thirdly, don't lump liberalism in with them. Wait, they all have the word "liberalism" in their names... Fourthly, the Nazis called themselves German fascists, and Mussolini more than agreed.

Yeah you're talking out of your ass NEXT!
Also: Nazism or NSDAP literally means National SOCIALIST Workers Party.
Go read!

Oh my fucking god, the Nazis were not socialist. I guess that makes the Democratic People's Republic of Korea a democracy.

[SS DG]

Fascism is not the same as Nazism i dunno why you people use the 2 words interchangeably. One is a strong state the other is a race based ideology.

Fascism isn't just a strong state, it's an authoritarian nationalist state.

Exactly.

[Ci Arovannea]

Firstly, fascism means a weak state of incompetent populists with an incentive to engage in corrupt activity. Secondly, these are not exhaustive definitions; they do not define these ideologies. States can be racist but not Nazi. Thirdly, don't lump liberalism in with them. Wait, they all have the word "liberalism" in their names... Fourthly, the Nazis called themselves German fascists, and Mussolini more than agreed.

Yeah you're talking out of your ass NEXT!
Also: Nazism or NSDAP literally means National SOCIALIST Workers Party.
Go read!

jarvis, make them read another thousand history books so they fucking understand that the nazis werent by any stretch of the imagination "socialist"

[SS DG]

Fascism isn't just a strong state, it's an authoritarian nationalist state.

Exactly.

They were socialist in name only otherwise yeah they didn't really have much in the way of socialist policies. Socialists are anti war while they were jingoists. They did provide welfare for mothers but that was more to have future soldiers. Also had the first anti smoking campaigns. They were avant garde for their time with radical policies rather than reactionaries.

[DutchFormosa]

They were socialist in name only otherwise yeah they didn't really have much in the way of socialist policies. Socialists are anti war while they were jingoists. They did provide welfare for mothers but that was more to have future soldiers. Also had the first anti smoking campaigns. They were avant garde for their time with radical policies rather than reactionaries.

Is the United States socialist then?

[SS DG]

Exactly.

They were socialist in name only otherwise yeah they didn't really have much in the way of socialist policies. Socialists are anti war while they were jingoists. They did provide welfare for mothers but that was more to have future soldiers. Also had the first anti smoking campaigns. They were avant garde for their time with radical policies rather than reactionaries.

Mussolini was a socialist before he founded the fascist party *cough*

[DutchFormosa]

Mussolini was a socialist before he founded the fascist party *cough*

That means nothing. Anyone can have a shift in politics. Socialists aren't really known for being pro-war.

[Ci Arovannea]

They were socialist in name only otherwise yeah they didn't really have much in the way of socialist policies. Socialists are anti war while they were jingoists. They did provide welfare for mothers but that was more to have future soldiers. Also had the first anti smoking campaigns. They were avant garde for their time with radical policies rather than reactionaries.

Mussolini was a socialist before he founded the fascist party *cough*

and what the... fuck does that gotta do with anything?

[Humanlonia]

Mussolini was a socialist before he founded the fascist party *cough*

That means nothing. Anyone can have a shift in politics. Socialists aren't really known for being pro-war.

The Finns, Georgians, Poles, and Tibetans all curse your ignorance. However, they were communists.

[DutchFormosa]

That means nothing. Anyone can have a shift in politics. Socialists aren't really known for being pro-war.

The Finns, Georgians, Poles, and Tibetans all curse your ignorance. However, they were communists.

I didn't say communists, did I?

[Ci Arovannea]

Mussolini was a socialist before he founded the fascist party *cough*

That means nothing. Anyone can have a shift in politics. Socialists aren't really known for being pro-war.

*cough cough*

[Humanlonia]

The Finns, Georgians, Poles, and Tibetans all curse your ignorance. However, they were communists.

I didn't say communists, did I?

Yes, I got a bit lost. But I almost got it right in the end! Sorry.

[Humanlonia]

That means nothing. Anyone can have a shift in politics. Socialists aren't really known for being pro-war.

*cough cough*

This communist and Trotskyists are somewhat different even from classical communists. They are different.

[DutchFormosa]

That means nothing. Anyone can have a shift in politics. Socialists aren't really known for being pro-war.

*cough cough*

The Finns, Georgians, Poles, and Tibetans all curse your ignorance. However, they were communists.

I didn't say communists, did I?

[SS DG]

That means nothing. Anyone can have a shift in politics. Socialists aren't really known for being pro-war.

*cough cough*

Ikr these people are so dumb. When i saw that pink and blue "flag" i knew what was up lol

[The Error Union]

Yep, not fascist btw. If you read my Sig, you would know that. I just like debating.

"Not fascist", yet you just said, and I quote:

For debate purposes, you'd be surprised how deep this rabbit hole can go.


I'll start,
Fascism isnt inherintly Terrible, in my opinion, it gets confused with N@zism a lot, something EVERYONE can agree is terrible. The problem is that because of it, everyone thinks of N@zi ideals when they hear fascism. In my opinion, True fascism, in theory, has nothing to do with race. It’s not about who’s white, black, or anything else. It’s about the nation. The state is what matters, and your pride should be in that, not in some group of people. Fascism, at its core, is just extreme nationalism. It’s about everyone coming together, working for the same goal, putting the country above themselves. Think of it as trying to restore a golden age, making the nation strong and unified. If you focus on race or exclusion, that’s history twisting it, not the idea itself. Pure fascism is just love for the state, pride in the nation, and total dedication to its success. That’s it.

its the same way for every ideology, in theory it's one way, in practice people twist the ideology to benefit themselves. Communism, Capitalism, every ideology says one thing, but when executed, it always turns out differently.

You're a fucking fascist.

Defining an ideology for what it actually is instead of just insulting it does NOT make you a member of the ideology. I hate fascism due to the lack of democracy and checks and balances. Plus the ability for capitalistic economics to be able to exist in it. But that doesn’t mean I will purposefully ridicule it and pretend the actual paper definition isn’t the true one. Misunderstanding those we disagree with, even on purpose, is exactly how you lose against them. He is not a fascist, I hate to break it to you. He is just not. Knowing the definition doesn’t mean he is a fascist. If that was true, then that would make me a hardcore free market capitalist because I know its definition and does not ridicule it. I dislike capitalism, socialism is better, but that doesn’t mean I would ridicule capitalism or ignore the good things capitalism did in fact achieve for society. Understand your enemies fully, heck, even put yourself in their shoes for a few seconds, and then you can win against them. A lack of understanding, however, thrown out the window in order to maintain your pride and ego, would destroy you and only set YOU up for failure.