Venezuela Troubles

[Ifreann]

You're*

It is that simple.

Thanx, and I’m sure it is to your mind.
Not refuting that at all.

It's perfectly obvious that there is no complicating factor to the question of whether the US Navy has the right to blow up Venezuelans who dare to venture out to sea.

[Somewherica]

Thanx, and I’m sure it is to your mind.
Not refuting that at all.

It's perfectly obvious that there is no complicating factor to the question of whether the US Navy has the right to blow up Venezuelans who dare to venture out to sea.

The Navy does not blow up something for being innocuous.
They are our most progressive branch of service after all.
Their ability to sus out a vessel’s particulars is very comprehensive, as are their rules of engagement.

[Ifreann]

It's perfectly obvious that there is no complicating factor to the question of whether the US Navy has the right to blow up Venezuelans who dare to venture out to sea.

The Navy does not blow up something for being innocuous.
Their ability to sus out a vessel’s particulars is very comprehensive.

Ah, so you think that we should assume the existence of a valid but secret justification for the killings of seventeen unidentified people. I don't think I will be doing that.

[Somewherica]

Ah, so you think that we should assume the existence of a valid but secret justification for the killings of seventeen unidentified people. I don't think I will be doing that.

I don’t have to assume anything, but I can see where your lack of operational knowledge is a problem.
I would not be so quick to make assumptions, either, in your shoes.
Again, not faulting you.

[Fullworth Arkhamada]

All power to the Venezuelans in defending their homes from fascist American invaders.

First of all, the American leadership right now is not fascist. They are Right Wing Populist. Which is a completely different ideology, doesn’t exactly make things better though. But please try to better understand the political realm so you can understand your enemies better. Because if you don’t, the enemy will soon be able to outsmart you in so many ways because you think they are the same old dog when they are not. I do not say this with any means of offense, but as genuine advice. Remember, fascists and bigots are NOT your only enemies here. Right Wing Populists, Reactionary Socialists like me, so on so forth. This is unfortunately the real world, so there is way more than two or three sides of this conflict.

Second of all, even though I do dislike Trump. Maduro and the Venezuelan Dictatorship is objectively worse. Why else would Venezuelans be fleeing that state in mass and try to get into the USA? I can guarantee you many Venezuelans there would probably take American occupation over being victims of the cartels and the Dictatorship any time of the day. Venezuela is horrible, America would be liberating it, even if that wasn’t Trump’s intentions at all.

[Ifreann]

Ah, so you think that we should assume the existence of a valid but secret justification for the killings of seventeen unidentified people. I don't think I will be doing that.

I don’t have to assume anything, but I can see where your lack of operational knowledge is a problem.
I would not be so quick to make assumptions, either, in your shoes.
Again, not faulting you.

I'm not making assumptions, it's perfectly obvious what's going on. The demented moron in the White House has massed these forces in the Gulf of Mexico because he wants to go to war, and he told them to start killing suspected drug smugglers because his causus belli is going to rely on the idea that smuggling drugs is actually an act of war. All very stupid stuff, nothing that requires complex legal analysis or specialise knowledge of military operations to understand.

[Lusitanic]

Why should a crook engage in self defense? Maybe they should do that vs other crooks but not against law enforcement.

The USA is not and should not be the world police.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Team_Am ... rld_Police
Too late

[Daemonkin of Corn]

All power to the Venezuelans in defending their homes from fascist American invaders.

First of all, the American leadership right now is not fascist. They are Right Wing Populist. Which is a completely different ideology, doesn’t exactly make things better though. But please try to better understand the political realm so you can understand your enemies better. Because if you don’t, the enemy will soon be able to outsmart you in so many ways because you think they are the same old dog when they are not. I do not say this with any means of offense, but as genuine advice. Remember, fascists and bigots are NOT your only enemies here. Right Wing Populists, Reactionary Socialists like me, so on so forth. This is unfortunately the real world, so there is way more than two or three sides of this conflict.

Second of all, even though I do dislike Trump. Maduro and the Venezuelan Dictatorship is objectively worse. Why else would Venezuelans be fleeing that state in mass and try to get into the USA? I can guarantee you many Venezuelans there would probably take American occupation over being victims of the cartels and the Dictatorship any time of the day. Venezuela is horrible, America would be liberating it, even if that wasn’t Trump’s intentions at all.

1. Wrong.

2. Also wrong. Madura and the Venezuelan dictatorship might be worse for "Venezuelans" right now, but that doesn't mean being "liberated" by America would make them any better off. On the global stage, America is much worse.

Up to 400,000 civilian casualties from the war in Iraq and the nation STILL has not stabilized after being occupied by ISIS.

Around 200,000 civilian casualties in Afghanistan and that nation is currently under control of the very regime that America said they would get rid of.

Venezuela would be no different. Hundreds of thousands of people die for oil.

"I can guarantee you many Venezuelans there would probably take American occupation over being victims of the cartels and the Dictatorship any time of the day. "

That's because they don't know better. The track record speaks for itself.

[Fullworth Arkhamada]

First of all, the American leadership right now is not fascist. They are Right Wing Populist. Which is a completely different ideology, doesn’t exactly make things better though. But please try to better understand the political realm so you can understand your enemies better. Because if you don’t, the enemy will soon be able to outsmart you in so many ways because you think they are the same old dog when they are not. I do not say this with any means of offense, but as genuine advice. Remember, fascists and bigots are NOT your only enemies here. Right Wing Populists, Reactionary Socialists like me, so on so forth. This is unfortunately the real world, so there is way more than two or three sides of this conflict.

Second of all, even though I do dislike Trump. Maduro and the Venezuelan Dictatorship is objectively worse. Why else would Venezuelans be fleeing that state in mass and try to get into the USA? I can guarantee you many Venezuelans there would probably take American occupation over being victims of the cartels and the Dictatorship any time of the day. Venezuela is horrible, America would be liberating it, even if that wasn’t Trump’s intentions at all.

1. Wrong.

2. Also wrong. Madura and the Venezuelan dictatorship might be worse for "Venezuelans" right now, but that doesn't mean being "liberated" by America would make them any better off. On the global stage, America is much worse.

Up to 400,000 civilian casualties from the war in Iraq and the nation STILL has not stabilized after being occupied by ISIS.

Around 200,000 civilian casualties in Afghanistan and that nation is currently under control of the very regime that America said they would get rid of.

Venezuela would be no different. Hundreds of thousands of people die for oil.

"I can guarantee you many Venezuelans there would probably take American occupation over being victims of the cartels and the Dictatorship any time of the day. "

That's because they don't know better. The track record speaks for itself.

1. You have provided zero evidence to counter my point. Just simply saying “wrong” does not prove my point wrong. Due to lack of evidence, your statement is invalid.

2. I guess you got a point. And I don’t trust Trump with handling Venezuela too well. Either way, Maduro or Trump, the Venezuelans are screwed. There has to be a third option!

[Ifreann]

All power to the Venezuelans in defending their homes from fascist American invaders.

First of all, the American leadership right now is not fascist. They are Right Wing Populist. Which is a completely different ideology, doesn’t exactly make things better though. But please try to better understand the political realm so you can understand your enemies better. Because if you don’t, the enemy will soon be able to outsmart you in so many ways because you think they are the same old dog when they are not. I do not say this with any means of offense, but as genuine advice. Remember, fascists and bigots are NOT your only enemies here. Right Wing Populists, Reactionary Socialists like me, so on so forth. This is unfortunately the real world, so there is way more than two or three sides of this conflict.

lol
lmao

Second of all, even though I do dislike Trump. Maduro and the Venezuelan Dictatorship is objectively worse. Why else would Venezuelans be fleeing that state in mass and try to get into the USA? I can guarantee you many Venezuelans there would probably take American occupation over being victims of the cartels and the Dictatorship any time of the day. Venezuela is horrible, America would be liberating it, even if that wasn’t Trump’s intentions at all.

No Venezuelan would prefer dying at the hands of American invaders or being raped and tortured in an American concentration camp to living under a corrupt dictatorship, obviously. Maybe if America could be trusted to come in and quickly topple the government, clean up their mess, and leave the Venezuelan people in control of their own destiny then they would be welcomed as liberators. But that's not going to happen, especially not under Donald Trump.

[Somewherica]

All very stupid stuff, nothing that requires complex legal analysis or specialise knowledge of military operations to understand.

Tell that to the nimrods who have been prosecuting the war on drugs as a war of attrition for their own political enrichment for the last several decades.
Maybe, just maybe someone had taken the title seriously, it would not be the problem it is today.

Yes, we are the number one importer of narcotics and flesh, but then again, we are a society trained to self-indulgence in the worse possible aspects of our lives by both wings of our politics.
We want to solve the problem, but we really don’t, cause we’re not supposed to really see it as a problem, except from certain points of view, because there is so much financial and political capital to be mined from it.

[Daemonkin of Corn]

1. Wrong.

2. Also wrong. Madura and the Venezuelan dictatorship might be worse for "Venezuelans" right now, but that doesn't mean being "liberated" by America would make them any better off. On the global stage, America is much worse.

Up to 400,000 civilian casualties from the war in Iraq and the nation STILL has not stabilized after being occupied by ISIS.

Around 200,000 civilian casualties in Afghanistan and that nation is currently under control of the very regime that America said they would get rid of.

Venezuela would be no different. Hundreds of thousands of people die for oil.

"I can guarantee you many Venezuelans there would probably take American occupation over being victims of the cartels and the Dictatorship any time of the day. "

That's because they don't know better. The track record speaks for itself.

1. You have provided zero evidence to counter my point. Just simply saying “wrong” does not prove my point wrong. Due to lack of evidence, your statement is invalid.

2. I guess you got a point. And I don’t trust Trump with handling Venezuela too well. Either way, Maduro or Trump, the Venezuelans are screwed. There has to be a third option!

The option is to let Venezuelan national affairs be Venezuelan national affairs. Leave them the fuck alone.

[Somewherica]

No Venezuelan would prefer dying at the hands of American invaders or being raped and tortured in an American concentration camp to living under a corrupt dictatorship, obviously. Maybe if America could be trusted to come in and quickly topple the government, clean up their mess, and leave the Venezuelan people in control of their own destiny then they would be welcomed as liberators. But that's not going to happen, especially not under Donald Trump.

Eight million Venezuelans fled Maduro’s regime.
Many undertaking journeys and settling into lifestyles that have left some worse for wear, or at least equal to what you describe.
All for an actual mad man who had no call to actually turn his nation upside down.

[Ifreann]

All very stupid stuff, nothing that requires complex legal analysis or specialise knowledge of military operations to understand.

Tell that to the nimrods who have been prosecuting the war on drugs as a war of attrition for their own political enrichment for the last several decades.
Maybe, just maybe someone had taken the title seriously, it would not be the problem it is today.

Yes, we are the number one importer of narcotics and flesh, but then again, we are a society trained to self-indulgence in the worse possible aspects of our lives by both wings of our politics.
We want to solve the problem, but we really don’t, cause we’re not supposed to really see it as a problem, except from certain points of view, because there is so much financial and political capital to be mined from it.

Gonna assume from this jarring change of topic that you have nothing further to say on the point at hand.

[Fullworth Arkhamada]

First of all, the American leadership right now is not fascist. They are Right Wing Populist. Which is a completely different ideology, doesn’t exactly make things better though. But please try to better understand the political realm so you can understand your enemies better. Because if you don’t, the enemy will soon be able to outsmart you in so many ways because you think they are the same old dog when they are not. I do not say this with any means of offense, but as genuine advice. Remember, fascists and bigots are NOT your only enemies here. Right Wing Populists, Reactionary Socialists like me, so on so forth. This is unfortunately the real world, so there is way more than two or three sides of this conflict.

lol
lmao

Second of all, even though I do dislike Trump. Maduro and the Venezuelan Dictatorship is objectively worse. Why else would Venezuelans be fleeing that state in mass and try to get into the USA? I can guarantee you many Venezuelans there would probably take American occupation over being victims of the cartels and the Dictatorship any time of the day. Venezuela is horrible, America would be liberating it, even if that wasn’t Trump’s intentions at all.

No Venezuelan would prefer dying at the hands of American invaders or being raped and tortured in an American concentration camp to living under a corrupt dictatorship, obviously. Maybe if America could be trusted to come in and quickly topple the government, clean up their mess, and leave the Venezuelan people in control of their own destiny then they would be welcomed as liberators. But that's not going to happen, especially not under Donald Trump.

1. “lol”? Really? You didn’t even try to prove me wrong. Therefore, my point is still valid. Seriously, prove to me how Trump is actually a fascist and not a Right Wing Populist! Come on! I am waiting.

2. Being put in concentration camps? Who do you think the US military are? The Nazi SS Troopers? Yeah, they did a bunch of horrible stuff. But what you described doesn’t happen. If anything, the cartels are worse than the US military. Unlike the US military whose war crimes were usually quick, cartels enjoy torturing their victims. Getting every scream they can out of their victim as possible, letting them die slowly. Also, I am pretty sure the Dictatorship also does horrific stuff to maintain power. Seriously, the US military may be bad, but they ain’t the worst ones.

[Ifreann]

lol
lmao


No Venezuelan would prefer dying at the hands of American invaders or being raped and tortured in an American concentration camp to living under a corrupt dictatorship, obviously. Maybe if America could be trusted to come in and quickly topple the government, clean up their mess, and leave the Venezuelan people in control of their own destiny then they would be welcomed as liberators. But that's not going to happen, especially not under Donald Trump.

1. “lol”? Really? You didn’t even try to prove me wrong. Therefore, my point is still valid. Seriously, prove to me how Trump is actually a fascist and not a Right Wing Populist! Come on! I am waiting.

Trump has been around for a decade now, plenty has been written on how his movement is fascist. Feel free to peruse that at your leisure, because I cannot be bothered explaining it to you.

2. Being put in concentration camps? Who do you think the US military are? The Nazi SS Troopers? Yeah, they did a bunch of horrible stuff. But what you described doesn’t happen. If anything, the cartels are worse than the US military. Unlike the US military whose war crimes were usually quick, cartels enjoy torturing their victims. Getting every scream they can out of their victim as possible, letting them die slowly. Also, I am pretty sure the Dictatorship also does horrific stuff to maintain power. Seriously, the US military may be bad, but they ain’t the worst ones.

You really ought to pay attention to what's going on around you. The US is already detaining people in concentration camps. To believe that Venezuelans would be spared this treatment in the event of an American invasion is beyond naive.

[GMS]

First of all, the American leadership right now is not fascist. They are Right Wing Populist. Which is a completely different ideology, doesn’t exactly make things better though. But please try to better understand the political realm so you can understand your enemies better. Because if you don’t, the enemy will soon be able to outsmart you in so many ways because you think they are the same old dog when they are not. I do not say this with any means of offense, but as genuine advice. Remember, fascists and bigots are NOT your only enemies here. Right Wing Populists, Reactionary Socialists like me, so on so forth. This is unfortunately the real world, so there is way more than two or three sides of this conflict.

lol
lmao

Second of all, even though I do dislike Trump. Maduro and the Venezuelan Dictatorship is objectively worse. Why else would Venezuelans be fleeing that state in mass and try to get into the USA? I can guarantee you many Venezuelans there would probably take American occupation over being victims of the cartels and the Dictatorship any time of the day. Venezuela is horrible, America would be liberating it, even if that wasn’t Trump’s intentions at all.

No Venezuelan would prefer dying at the hands of American invaders or being raped and tortured in an American concentration camp to living under a corrupt dictatorship, obviously. Maybe if America could be trusted to come in and quickly topple the government, clean up their mess, and leave the Venezuelan people in control of their own destiny then they would be welcomed as liberators. But that's not going to happen, especially not under Donald Trump.

GMS. I know many Venezuelan Republican Trump supporters personally and online. President Trump might not ovethrow Maduro, like I want and we want, but he deserves credit for the war against the Mexican, Venezuelan and other nations drug cartels. But the Real Dictators, Maduro, Daniel Ortega and Raúl Castro Ruz, of Venezuela, Nicaragua and Cuba need to be overthrowed in any way.

Make Venezuela Great Again.
Make Nicaragua Great Again.
Make Cuba Great Again.
Make America Great Again President Trump.

[Neonian Imperium]

How is supporting democracy, opposing a cartel, and opposing a Putin lover, "Yankee Imperialism"?

Venezuela is already democracy.
The us government supported drug smuggling fascist contras in Nicaragua they probably also supporting the cartels in Venezuela.

>fascist contras
As someone from the territory mentioned here, uhh, the contras were not fascist???? they were simply a bunch of disunited militias with different goals, some wanted a democracy away from the FSLN, some wanted to return to the somoza dictatorship, etc.
----
Now on the topic of the thread, doing sanctions would literally not do anything to the venezuelan dictatorship, 0 effect, they would still remain as north korea does at the cost of the common person.
And an american intervention would do more bad things than good knowing who is currently on the american throne, and the classic american strategy which has been used since the 30's when intervining on latin america.
End yankee imperialism, and if anything, just limit the support in form of funding to opposition groups, the venezuelan people already have the will to liberate themselves, they just lack the means to.

[Krangkor]

I don’t have to assume anything, but I can see where your lack of operational knowledge is a problem.
I would not be so quick to make assumptions, either, in your shoes.
Again, not faulting you.

I'm not making assumptions, it's perfectly obvious what's going on. The demented moron in the White House has massed these forces in the Gulf of Mexico because he wants to go to war, and he told them to start killing suspected drug smugglers because his causus belli is going to rely on the idea that smuggling drugs is actually an act of war. All very stupid stuff, nothing that requires complex legal analysis or specialise knowledge of military operations to understand.

It is called the Gulf of America now.
Fighting drug cartels is fine. Liberating Venezuela is also fine.

[Krangkor]

I think after Venezuela is liberated (however that shall happen remains to be seen) the new government should condemn the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I'm not making assumptions, it's perfectly obvious what's going on. The demented moron in the White House has massed these forces in the Gulf of Mexico because he wants to go to war, and he told them to start killing suspected drug smugglers because his causus belli is going to rely on the idea that smuggling drugs is actually an act of war. All very stupid stuff, nothing that requires complex legal analysis or specialise knowledge of military operations to understand.

It is called the Gulf of America now.
Fighting drug cartels is fine. Liberating Venezuela is also fine.

Well, you and your kids can volunteer to go get shot to pieces by the colectivos in the jungle. I have no interest in joining you.

[Holy Tedalonia]

The USA shouldnt have to get involved in Venezuela. Just form a knights templar like holy order, and send it out against the drug cartels. A international organization intent on getting rid of all cartel crime. And do some banking to help finance the order.

[Neonian Imperium]

The USA shouldnt have to get involved in Venezuela. Just form a knights templar like holy order, and send it out against the drug cartels. A international organization intent on getting rid of all cartel crime. And do some banking to help finance the order.

that would be extremely difficult knowing how deep corruption roots onto the governments on which they operate, and also how (at least mexican ones as I understand) have military gear.

[Daemonkin of Corn]

The USA shouldnt have to get involved in Venezuela. Just form a knights templar like holy order, and send it out against the drug cartels. A international organization intent on getting rid of all cartel crime. And do some banking to help finance the order.

Everyone is assuming that the USA even "wants" to be rid of drug cartels.

Guys. They don't.

The whole administration is coked up. The cartels aren't going anywhere. They are a useful tool for American foreign policy. Always have been.

[GMS]

The USA shouldnt have to get involved in Venezuela. Just form a knights templar like holy order, and send it out against the drug cartels. A international organization intent on getting rid of all cartel crime. And do some banking to help finance the order.

The USA is a world power so it has to get involved in Venezuela and other nations. President Trump is not a Paleocon, is not a Neocon, President Trump is a Pro USA, American Nationalist Patriot President, who defends American interests as he see's it. Here is an article I found a few years ago on Politico. Trump is Neither a Neocon Nor an Isolationist. https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... wry-096445. Make America Great Again President Trump.